Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine

[TechTalk]

Your comments show that you still downplay the economic damage.

No it doesn't. You just repeat that over and over and over and....

Can you state your balanced view of how this pandemic should have been handled so it minimized both people's health risks and their job loss? All I see from you is constant complaints...what about some solutions with hind sight even.

[TechTalk]

The point I'm trying to remind people COvid has two major issues

No one needs the reminder. Everyone is aware of the issues.

You're simply resurrecting another one of your repetitive circular arguments from its coma to bait people into another ride on your merry-go-round. Everyone recognizes that there are no simple solutions during a deadly pandemic. Everyone recognizes that it's a difficult balancing act trying to prevent a huge number of needless deaths and maintain a resemblance of normal life during a deadly pandemic.

No one is ignoring any of the problems that come with a deadly pandemic—No One. No one is enlightened by spinning around in circles on your favorite amusement ride—No One. You keep throwing out bait and spinning the wheel.

[TechTalk]

So, although the economy would have taken a hit regardless, the hit would be less without the restrictions without a high increase in costs/deaths.

How much better would the economy be and how different would the number of deaths and permanent injury be now? What are those numbers?

[Peter McLennan]

Check out Venezuela. The people have lost security and freedom as government power increased.

You're losing it, Alan.  It took you nearly 24 hours to come up with that specious retort.


Here's what I meant, illustrated by two common examples.

Motorcycling:    maximum freedom, zero security
Prisons:            maximum security, zero freedom.

[Robert Roaldi]

You're losing it, Alan.  It took you nearly 24 hours to come up with that specious retort.


Here's what I meant, illustrated by two common examples.

Motorcycling:    maximum freedom, zero security
Prisons:            maximum security, zero freedom.

(And yet, people in prisons always seem to be able to get drugs. How can that be?)

[TechTalk]

Freedom and security are opposites.

I'm sorry, but I can't agree with this as a blanket statement. I think that most of the time freedom and security go hand in hand.

The more insecure a person feels in a given situation, generally the more constrained they will feel regarding their freedom to act, as a lack of security typically includes some degree of fear. Conversely, a person that feels their freedom is restricted in a given situation, will generally also feel less secure to act as they might otherwise wish. As with most things in life, there may be exceptions and more importantly, there is the factor of what is reasonable for a given situation—and what is reasonable itself is subject to some degree of reasonable individual interpretation. Freedom can have reasonable limits. The same holds true for security.

Since this thread topic is vaccines—though some regularly try to hijack the thread to further their own agenda—let's use COVID as an example. Prior to vaccine availability, many people did not feel secure enough to engage in some public and social activities which had been part of their life prior to the pandemic. Reasonably so, because there was, and there is, a dangerous pandemic virus circulating. As a consequence, they did not feel free to engage in certain activities that they had previously enjoyed.

With the advent of vaccines, there is enough reduction in risk for some situations—such as small gatherings with friends and family who are all vaccinated—that those same people will feel a greater freedom and sense of security to engage in and enjoy those activities again.

[Peter McLennan]

Yah, you're right.  I over-blanket statement'd it.  A common problem with me.

"Freedom and security CAN be opposites" would be a better version.

Thanks for pointing out my false absolutism.

[TechTalk]

Yah, you're right.  I over-blanket statement'd it.  A common problem with me.

"Freedom and security CAN be opposites" would be a better version.

Thanks for pointing out my false absolutism.

Well, you know, Alan pointed out one of my faults. I only agree with people when I agree with them—or something to that effect. A common problem with me!

We're all entitled to alter our view. It raises my appreciation of people who are intellectually honest enough to do so—like yourself. Probably one reason that I enjoy reading your comments.

[Alan Klein]

Good news in the fight against Covid for people who get the disease.  They studied unvaccinated people.  So I'm not sure if this medicine would be used or approved for vaccinated people who get sick. 


The New York Times
What You Need to Know About Merck's New COVID Treatment Pill
Merck on Friday announced that its new pill to treat COVID-19 reduced the risk of hospitalization and death by about 50%. Merck plans to seek emergency authorization for the antiviral pills to be used in the United States.

Here’s what you need to know.

Who will get the pills?

The pills are meant for people who are sick with COVID but are not in the hospital. Merck’s Phase 3 clinical trial enrolled only unvaccinated people who were considered high risk, such as older people or those with medical conditions like diabetes or heart disease. Initially, the drug might only be available for those people, but experts expect it to eventually become more widely available.

The pills are designed to be taken as soon as possible once a person shows symptoms of having COVID — a time when the virus is replicating rapidly and the immune system has not yet mounted a defense. In Merck’s trial, volunteers had to have shown symptoms within the past five days, and some researchers think the pills must be taken even earlier to be most effective.
https://news.yahoo.com/know-mercks-covid-treatment-pill-141123589.html

[Robert Roaldi]

Good news in the fight against Covid for people who get the disease.  They studied unvaccinated people.  So I'm not sure if this medicine would be used or approved for vaccinated people who get sick. 


The New York Times
What You Need to Know About Merck's New COVID Treatment Pill
Merck on Friday announced that its new pill to treat COVID-19 reduced the risk of hospitalization and death by about 50%. Merck plans to seek emergency authorization for the antiviral pills to be used in the United States.

Here’s what you need to know.

Who will get the pills?

The pills are meant for people who are sick with COVID but are not in the hospital. Merck’s Phase 3 clinical trial enrolled only unvaccinated people who were considered high risk, such as older people or those with medical conditions like diabetes or heart disease. Initially, the drug might only be available for those people, but experts expect it to eventually become more widely available.

The pills are designed to be taken as soon as possible once a person shows symptoms of having COVID — a time when the virus is replicating rapidly and the immune system has not yet mounted a defense. In Merck’s trial, volunteers had to have shown symptoms within the past five days, and some researchers think the pills must be taken even earlier to be most effective.

https://news.yahoo.com/know-mercks-covid-treatment-pill-141123589.html

Wait! How do we know there aren't nanobots in those pills?   (Sorry, couldn't resist).

I understand that Merck is optimistic and is trying to ramp up the marketing, but does anyone know how widespread the testing has been. Is this after early trials or something more substantial?

[Alan Klein]

Wait! How do we know there aren't nanobots in those pills?   (Sorry, couldn't resist).

I understand that Merck is optimistic and is trying to ramp up the marketing, but does anyone know how widespread the testing has been. Is this after early trials or something more substantial?

From the same article. 

Quote:

When will the pills become available?

Merck said on Friday that it plans to seek emergency authorization from the Food and Drug Administration as soon as possible. Regulators could then authorize the drug before the end of this year, if all goes well.

Dr. Anthony Fauci, President Joe Biden’s top medical adviser for the coronavirus, said at a White House briefing on Friday that he could not give a specific timeline for approval.

“The FDA will look at the data, and in their usual very efficient and effective way, will examine the data as quickly as they possibly can, and then it will be taken from there,” he said.

[Robert Roaldi]

Three Americans explain why they won't vaccinate (article from BBC), https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-58851205.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

How real men do it (Elliott Erwitt):

[Eric Myrvaagnes]

Thanks for that chuckle, Slobodan!

[LesPalenik]

How real men do it (Elliott Erwitt):

That looks like a Gualoises cigarette without a filter. Very courageous.

[JoeKitchen]

With the advent of vaccines, there is enough reduction in risk for some situations—such as small gatherings with friends and family who are all vaccinated—that those same people will feel a greater freedom and sense of security to engage in and enjoy those activities again.

I'm sorry, but this statement is nonsense.  First, if you are vaccinated, you are golden and can return to normal life regardless of anything else.  C-19 is less dangerous then the flu after you are vaccinated.  Therefore it does not matter how many people you are with or if they are vaccinated. 

Second, people who think otherwise, agreeing with your sentiment here, are mentally gone at this point and probably will not be engaging is any activities, regardless.  I know a couple of people like this who have given up their reason for insanity.  We are currently planning a BBQ and inviting quite a few friends.  These two have asked that we make sure we only invite vaccinated people.  It is none of my business who is or is not vaccinated, and I will not be asking anyone just to satisfy a couple who have lost their reason. 

[JoeKitchen]

But anyway, speaking of vaccine mandates, don't book with Southwest anytime soon, or get sick in NY either.

Southwest CEO says he never wanted a Covid vaccine mandate but Biden forced his hand

Well at least they, partially, stopped gaslighting us and now admit that this was due to the vaccine mandate, kind of.  However, Biden did not force his hand as he claims.  Biden has not put into place a vaccine mandate, he only said he would, a month ago. 

As of right now, there is no new OSHA regulation requiring vaccines.  More then likely Biden stopped short of doing so to avoid being sued, and possibly causing Chevron Deference to be overturned.  This would be a major blow to the administration if this did happen, and we now have a Supreme Court that would probably do so. 

But anyway, all of this falls on him; his hand was not forced. 

FYI, this same story is being played out in many different industries, including with truckers and longshoremen.  Have you noticed the emptier shelves lately?  More "transitory" inflation is most like coming. 

I am not one to panic buy gold and silver, and have actually never done so, but I now am. 

[TechTalk]

Prior to vaccine availability, many people did not feel secure enough to engage in some public and social activities which had been part of their life prior to the pandemic. Reasonably so, because there was, and there is, a dangerous pandemic virus circulating. As a consequence, they did not feel free to engage in certain activities that they had previously enjoyed.

With the advent of vaccines, there is enough reduction in risk for some situations—such as small gatherings with friends and family who are all vaccinated—that those same people will feel a greater freedom and sense of security to engage in and enjoy those activities again.

I'm sorry, but this statement is nonsense.

Vaccination reduces risk of infection from contagious disease. The question is always to what degree the risk is reduced for an individual in a given environment.

C-19 is less dangerous then [than] the flu after you are vaccinated.

I'm sorry, but this statement is nonsense.

[TechTalk]

First, if you are vaccinated, you are golden and can return to normal life regardless of anything else.

"Golden", "regardless of anything else"? I'm sorry, but this statement is nonsense.

There are multiple variants of COVID-19 circulating among vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals. Vaccine effectiveness, while impressive, does not provide a barrier to contact with the virus or infection; it is a boost to defense against the virus and from infectious disease. How much protection is provided by that boost in immune system defense will vary greatly depending on the individual, the amount of virus with which they have contact, and the variant of the virus.

Therefore it does not matter how many people you are with or if they are vaccinated. 

Of course, it does matter. 1) Unvaccinated individuals have a far greater likelihood of becoming infected and subsequently contagious. 2) The more unvaccinated people with which you are in close enough proximity to be subject to contact with airborne viral spread, the more likelihood there is for infection and continuation of the chain of viral spread. If you don't understand why that is so, refer back to 1).

The number of people of unknown vaccination status with whom you interact and under what circumstances matters. If you don't understand why that is so, refer to 1) and 2) above.

[TechTalk]

Second, people who think otherwise, agreeing with your sentiment here, are mentally gone at this point...

Oh my! I guess you'll need to stock up on mops to keep up with their drooling.

and probably will not be engaging is any activities, regardless.

My expectation is that they will engage in a variety of activities, but will exercise the kind of common sense that life during a pandemic requires.