Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine

[TechTalk]

You seem to only care about the health issue and want to ignore economic problems.

You're simply resurrecting another one of your repetitive circular arguments from its coma to bait people into another ride on your merry-go-round. Everyone recognizes that there are no simple solutions during a deadly pandemic. Everyone recognizes that it's a difficult balancing act trying to prevent a huge number of needless deaths and maintain a resemblance of normal life during a deadly pandemic.

No one is ignoring any of the problems that come with a deadly pandemic—No One. No one is enlightened by spinning around in circles on your favorite amusement ride—No One. You keep throwing out bait and spinning the wheel.

You seem to only care about the health issue and want to ignore economic problems.  The latter will be with us a long time after the health issues are gone. 

No. You're completely wrong in your narrow short-sighted view. The economy has recovered from numerous disasters including a repetitive series of boom and bust cycles preceding a great depression, natural disasters, pandemic disease, a civil war and world wars.

Death is permanent. Many more that don't die will suffer permanent injury from the disease. This is what you continue to ignore in baiting people into your silly game.

[chez]

I'm trying to address both issues with the disease - health and economic.  A very difficult conundrum.  You seem to only care about the health issue and want to ignore economic problems.  The latter will be with us a long time after the health issues are gone.

Like I said in my previous post, almost all businesses continued to function...some changed slightly like take out only restaurants...but none the less, continued to function.

Can you state your balanced view of how this pendemic should have been handled so it minimized both people's health risks and their job loss. All I see from you is constant complaints...what about some solutions with hind sight even.

[TechTalk]

The root cause, preventing the return of an economy and life in general to the way we knew it before COVID, isn't masks, restrictions, or mandates—it's the widening spread and evolution of COVID.

Masks, restrictions, or mandates are public health measures to address an ongoing pandemic. Yes, those measures have undesirable side effects, economic and otherwise. What the "give me liberty or give me death" proponents ignore or under estimate are the side effects of not doing those things—the economic and health tolls of a more rapidly expanding pandemic; the risk, or reality, of a crashing health care system; the long-term impacts and costs of reliance on short-term voluntary actions and behavior. Yes, personal freedom and liberty are sacred values; but when a serial killer pandemic virus can hitch a free ride and accompany you—that seems worthy of some serious consideration as well.

Voluntary measures, to reduce the spread and impact of a pandemic virus, rely on common sense. When that's a commodity in short supply, what are the alternatives they propose?

[Alan Klein]

... and an air force and a navy and police and libraries and highways and bridges and flood control structures and national parks and hospitals and fire departments and rules that guarantee the food safety of your pizzas and safety regulations for the airlines that fly you to those national parks so you can take pictures of them and...

Do you understand the meaning of the term "governance" ?  GOVERNance?
 

Why?  Who else is that helicopter representing?  Corporate America?

The more power you give the government, the less freedom and security you get.

[TechTalk]

Great. Put that bumper sticker philosophy on your car. This thread is about vaccines.

[Alan Klein]

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Like I said in my previous post, almost all businesses continued to function...some changed slightly like take out only restaurants...but none the less, continued to function[/b].

Can you state your balanced view of how this pendemic should have been handled so it minimized both people's health risks and their job loss. All I see from you is constant complaints...what about some solutions with hind sight even.

51% of those restaurants didn't pay rent in Sept. The economy is in shambles.  The Fed's printing is keeping it alive by pumping liquidity into it.  Of course that causes inflation and devaluation with ever higher prices.  Your paycheck and savings aren't going as far.  You'll have to switch fron expensive 4x5 sheet film to cheaper 35mm film.  What happens when the economy rolls over?   It's too soon tp declare economic victory.

[TechTalk]

Can you state your balanced view of how this pandemic should have been handled so it minimized both people's health risks and their job loss. All I see from you is constant complaints...what about some solutions with hind sight even.

[TechTalk]

Easy for you to say

It's also easy to begin a statement with "Easy for you to say" when you offer no solutions. It's easy to pose questions; it's the answers that are difficult. It's easy to indulge in criticism when your only interest is in hearing yourself repeat the same banal platitudes. When someone is a constant critic, but offers no ideas or advice, they're probably full of easy.

[Peter McLennan]

The more power you give the government, the less freedom and security you get.

That's a non-sensical statement.  Freedom and security are opposites.

[Peter McLennan]

The more power you give the government, the less freedom and security you get.

Also, that doesn't answer my question:  If that helicopter doesn't represent the government, who does it represent?

[chez]

51% of those restaurants didn't pay rent in Sept. The economy is in shambles.  The Fed's printing is keeping it alive by pumping liquidity into it.  Of course that causes inflation and devaluation with ever higher prices.  Your paycheck and savings aren't going as far.  You'll have to switch fron expensive 4x5 sheet film to cheaper 35mm film.  What happens when the economy rolls over?   It's too soon tp declare economic victory.

Again Alan, would you go out to those restaurants if say 5,000 people in the states were dying every day from Covid? You keep telling us that you and your wife are holed up in your house during the pandemic...would you feel safer if there were no restrictions put in place...just let that dice roll and pray? Do you really think those restaurants would be jammed packed with people if Covid was running rampant without any measures in place?

Come on, you are not that naive. The whole country would be in chaos with everyone locking themselves in their houses.

[Alan Klein]

That's a non-sensical statement.  Freedom and security are opposites.

Check out Venezuela. The people have lost security and freedom as government power increased.

[Alan Klein]

Again Alan, would you go out to those restaurants if say 5,000 people in the states were dying every day from Covid? You keep telling us that you and your wife are holed up in your house during the pandemic...would you feel safer if there were no restrictions put in place...just let that dice roll and pray? Do you really think those restaurants would be jammed packed with people if Covid was running rampant without any measures in place?

Come on, you are not that naive. The whole country would be in chaos with everyone locking themselves in their houses.

I never said that.  I have said over and over that health and the economy are at odds with one another. Favoring one side or the other hurts the other side.  That's what makes it such a difficult issue.  Leaders have tried to find a balance to little effect.  But you have ignored the economy as if or doesn't count.  Well problems with it will long outlast health issues.

[TechTalk]

But you have ignored the economy as if or [it] doesn't count.

No one has ignored the economy as if it doesn't count. It just you obnoxiously repeating it for months, in an attempt to bait people.

Well problems with it will long outlast health issues.

How long does death last? How long does a lung lost to COVID last?

[Alan Klein]

No one has ignored the economy as if it doesn't count. It just you obnoxiously repeating it for months, in an attempt to bait people.

How long does death last? How long does a lung lost to COVID last?

Your comments show that you still downplay the economic damage.  I think someone who has lost their business and life's savings used to start that business, and don't know how they're going to pay their bills, might have a different concern.  After all, with the vaccines out 6-7 months, if they've taken them, then health is a minor concern for them but feeding their family is a more important thing to worry about. 

[chez]

But you have ignored the economy as if or doesn't count.  Well problems with it will long outlast health issues.

Tell that to the 700,000 and counting that died a horrible death in the last year and a half.

Last I looked, businesses are doing pretty damn good over here...many are hurting because lack of workers. Manufacturing is going full out. Restaurants are all open. Hotels are full. Even the local candy shop has people back buying candy.

But my cousin that died from Covid won't be back. My neighbors mother is gone forever.

[chez]

Your comments show that you still downplay the economic damage.  I think someone who has lost their business and life's savings used to start that business, and don't know how they're going to pay their bills, might have a different concern.  After all, with the vaccines out 6-7 months, if they've taken them, then health is a minor concern for them but feeding their family is a more important thing to worry about.

Again Alan, you have never answered my question. Do you believe the economy would be running full steam if no measures were taken and we'd just let Covid rip? Why don't you give us a peak at what your solution to the pendemic should have been. All we get from you is constant whining...give us your view what should have been done rather than what was done.

[Alan Klein]

Tell that to the 700,000 and counting that died a horrible death in the last year and a half.

Last I looked, businesses are doing pretty damn good over here...many are hurting because lack of workers. Manufacturing is going full out. Restaurants are all open. Hotels are full. Even the local candy shop has people back buying candy.

But my cousin that died from Covid won't be back. My neighbors mother is gone forever.

I'm sorry to hear about your cousin and neighbor.  It's terrible that they died.   I never said health isn't important.  My wife and I still are doing much to protect ourselves.  We still don't go to restaurants and most other venues.  The point I'm trying to remind people COvid has two major issues, often in conflict with each other to address.  Addressing them is not an either/or situation.  Both have a major impact on the country and on individuals.  Both have to be addressed. 

[Alan Klein]

Again Alan, you have never answered my question. Do you believe the economy would be running full steam if no measures were taken and we'd just let Covid rip? Why don't you give us a peak at what your solution to the pendemic should have been. All we get from you is constant whining...give us your view what should have been done rather than what was done.

I've stated over and over that health and the economy are at odds with each other.  Acting more aggressively in one area hurts the other.  If you isolate more, you help health but hurt the economy.  If you open the economy more, you hurt health.  It's a conundrum. There are no simple solutions.  If there were, we wouldn't be where we are. 

[JoeKitchen]

Again Alan, you have never answered my question. Do you believe the economy would be running full steam if no measures were taken and we'd just let Covid rip? Why don't you give us a peak at what your solution to the pendemic should have been. All we get from you is constant whining...give us your view what should have been done rather than what was done.

Compare Red states to Blue states.  The economies of the red states are better then the blue states and the COVID numbers are not different overall. 

So, although the economy would have taken a hit regardless, the hit would be less without the restrictions without a higher increase in costs/deaths.