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Author Topic: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine  (Read 73359 times)

TechTalk

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #1980 on: September 30, 2021, 06:55:14 am »

You always pushed how we should be listening to the experts and not the politicians.  But now it's interesting how you only agree with experts whose point of view you agree with.  What's the poor layman supposed to do?

Another reply where it appears that you didn't read the post to which you're pretending to respond.

The goal is to draw one or more parties into a circular and endlessly repetitive argument and then attempt to drag you thru a series of diversionary rabbit holes. It's exhausting for those that are engaged in it and a source of endless delight for the originator of the game.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2021, 02:09:55 pm by TechTalk »
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Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #1981 on: September 30, 2021, 07:02:17 am »

Another reply were it appears that you didn't read the post to which you're pretending to respond.

It appears you ignored the points I was making in my posts as well as the doctors' direct acknowledgement that many experts were responsible for the confusion in the general public about how vaccines work.

TechTalk

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #1982 on: September 30, 2021, 07:04:30 am »

The goal is to draw one or more parties into a circular and endlessly repetitive argument and then attempt to drag you thru a series of diversionary rabbit holes. It's exhausting for those that are engaged in it and a source of endless delight for the originator of the game.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #1983 on: September 30, 2021, 07:09:33 am »

I think we beat that one to death.  Let's try something different.

Twenty percent of border crossers tested positive amid delta variant surge, 'surprised' Mayorkas says
https://news.yahoo.com/twenty-percent-border-crossers-tested-141700059.html

Robert Roaldi

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #1984 on: September 30, 2021, 07:36:38 am »

You always pushed how we should be listening to the experts and not the politicians.  But now it's interesting how you only agree with experts whose point of view you agree with.  ...

Please provide some examples of experts who don't agree that vaccines, distancing, hygiene and masks are the way to go. Who is contradicting these ideas and thus confusing you?
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Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #1985 on: September 30, 2021, 08:41:32 am »

Please provide some examples of experts who don't agree that vaccines, distancing, hygiene and masks are the way to go. Who is contradicting these ideas and thus confusing you?
You haven't read my posts and are wasting my time.

chez

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #1986 on: September 30, 2021, 12:51:13 pm »

I was referring to the period when the economy was shut down including stores, restaurants, schools, ships and planes, travel, theatres, entertainment, sports, shipping, and other industries.  It forced the economy into a major recession when the Fed had to print trillions to bail out individuals and companies.  That kicked off the inflation we're now seeing and huge debt and deficits that we all will have to pay back.   Employment has not yet recovered.  There are still major bottlenecks to shipping and semiconductor manufacturers hurting the auto and many other industries.

Covid had major negative effects on both health and the economy.  Political administrators on both the Federal as well as the states had to address both issues.

In my neck of the woods stores were never shut down, restaurants continued with take only, schools continued with remote classes, sports continued, but only on TV, shipping continued...but was slowed down by workers getting infected with Covid.

Bottom line, if measures were not taken, the economy would still be drastically affected by Covid spreading and killing everything in its path. Tell me, if that restaurant down the street allowed you to go indoors and have a pizza, would you and your wife walk down and enjoy your dinner out when say thousands of people all around you were dieing from Covid? Do you think that production worker would go to work if his fellow employees were dropping dead around him?
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TechTalk

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #1987 on: September 30, 2021, 02:41:21 pm »

it's interesting how you only agree with experts whose point of view you agree with.

Yes, isn't that interesting that I only agree with those where I find agreement. Here's another great revelation for you. I only disagree with those where I find a disagreement!

With regard to the advice given by public health officials during the pandemic, I've found their advice agreeable and sensible. I also didn't find any of it confusing. That might be explained by my not sleeping thru elementary english and science classes which aided in my understanding. It may also be that I'm not blinded by an agenda to undermine confidence in their knowledge or their character. Perhaps it's due to some other factors or a combination of them.
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LesPalenik

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #1988 on: September 30, 2021, 03:11:03 pm »

I was referring to the period when the economy was shut down including stores, restaurants, schools, ships and planes, travel, theatres, entertainment, sports, shipping, and other industries.  It forced the economy into a major recession when the Fed had to print trillions to bail out individuals and companies.  That kicked off the inflation we're now seeing and huge debt and deficits that we all will have to pay back.   Employment has not yet recovered.  There are still major bottlenecks to shipping and semiconductor manufacturers hurting the auto and many other industries.

Covid had major negative effects on both health and the economy.  Political administrators on both the Federal as well as the states had to address both issues.

Based on the official covid stats, it appears that USA didn't have enough lockdowns and restrictions (or of the wrong kind). How else could you explain over 700,000 total covid deaths, 2190 just yesterday?
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TechTalk

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #1989 on: September 30, 2021, 03:41:35 pm »

What's the poor layman supposed to do?

They should give careful consideration to the consistent common sense advice from knowledgeable public health agencies.

• Get vaccinated. It's your best protection from becoming infected or seriously ill and dramatically reduces transmission.
• Wear a mask in indoor public spaces or in settings where it's difficult to maintain distance. They help to reduce viral transmission thru airborne respiratory droplets.
• Distance yourself from others in public. The virus can be transmitted thru airborne particles. Distancing helps to reduce the chance of transmission and infection.
• Avoid large or crowded gatherings. The more people gathered in one space or in close contact, the greater the chance of transmission and infection.
• Get tested if you've been in close contact with someone who is infected. Quarantine if unvaccinated. Isolate if you have symptoms or test positive for infection.
• Stay up-to-date on advice from public health agencies. They have the most reliable and current information.

They should ignore unreliable sources of information.

• No evidence is cited
• No original source listed
• No information is provided regarding where the information was published
• No information is provided regarding the authors
• No information is provided regarding their credentials
• The information is anonymous

For example:

I don't necessarily believe that vaccination reduces the spread.  I seem to recall reading that they found both vaccinated and unvaccinated people were infected in roughly equal or high percentages.

I was surprised to read that as many people who had the vaccine subsequently got the disease as people who didn't get vaccinated and that the vaccinated could spread it just as easily as the non vaccinated.  I read one article that said more vaccinated people had it from their study.

The article I read stated that vaccinated and unvaccinated people can get Covid roughly equally and pass it on
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TechTalk

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #1990 on: September 30, 2021, 04:09:48 pm »

I think we beat that one to death.

No, it's only in a temporary state of coma—as are the readers of this repetitive merry-go-round. At regular intervals, you've been resurrecting the same theme of untrustworthy "experts" for months. I have little doubt that after an intermission, the play will resume again.

Let's try something different.

I've seen that movie too.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #1991 on: September 30, 2021, 04:23:43 pm »

Based on the official covid stats, it appears that USA didn't have enough lockdowns and restrictions (or of the wrong kind). How else could you explain over 700,000 total covid deaths, 2190 just yesterday?
Ask the governors.  There are fifty of them.  They responded to political influence regarding health and the economies of their states.  Maybe that's part of the problem.  Because we're a federal republic and not a central government, each state did things the way they wanted including isolations, venues openings, restrictions, testing, etc. It would be interesting to compare to countries where a central formula was used for the entire country. We're also a country where it's hard to enforce rules for constitutional and other reasons.  Freedom costs. No one said liberty is cheap. 

TechTalk

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #1992 on: September 30, 2021, 05:11:47 pm »

Freedom costs. No one said liberty is cheap.

No one said that it requires officials, elected to protect the lives and safety of citizens, to stand idly by while a pandemic spreads causing death and permanent injury. George Washington was a believer in freedom and liberty and risked his life to defend it. He also ordered the first mass military inoculation campaign in order to prevent the spread of smallpox among his troops.

https://www.loc.gov/rr/scitech/George Washington and the First Mass Military Inoculation

Living in a civil society places a cost and obligation on its citizens as well. Protecting the health, lives, and safety of others may place a burden on individual citizens that isn't welcomed by all, but is necessary to achieve those goals and to maintain Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness for everyone. The first duty of a government is to defend the lives of its citizens from enemies, even when the enemy is a pandemic virus.
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PeterAit

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #1993 on: September 30, 2021, 05:13:19 pm »

They should give careful consideration to the consistent common sense advice from knowledgeable public health agencies.

For example:

I'd stay away from "common sense" because it usually means "what I believe." Remember, common sense told us the earth was flat. 
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TechTalk

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #1994 on: September 30, 2021, 05:15:33 pm »

It appears you ignored the points I was making in my posts

You haven't read my posts and are wasting my time.

Many weary fingers and worn keyboards feel otherwise. As to who was wasting the time of others, individuals will decide that for themselves.
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TechTalk

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #1995 on: September 30, 2021, 05:20:29 pm »

I'd stay away from "common sense" because it usually means "what I believe." Remember, common sense told us the earth was flat.

Nah, I'm very comfortable with common sense. Common sense: sound and prudent judgment based on a simple perception of the situation or facts — Merriam-Webster Dictionary.

It's common beliefs that sometimes require careful examination.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #1996 on: September 30, 2021, 05:33:11 pm »

No one said that it requires officials, elected to protect the lives and safety of citizens, to stand idly by while a pandemic spreads causing death and permanent injury. George Washington was a believer in freedom and liberty and risked his life to defend it. He also ordered the first mass military inoculation campaign in order to prevent the spread of smallpox among his troops.

https://www.loc.gov/rr/scitech/George Washington and the First Mass Military Inoculation

Living in a civil society places a cost and obligation on its citizens as well. Protecting the health, lives, and safety of others may place a burden on individual citizens that isn't welcomed by all, but is necessary to achieve those goals and to maintain Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness for everyone. The first duty of a government is to defend the lives of its citizens from enemies, even when the enemy is a pandemic virus.
We didn't have a constitution when Washington fort for liberty.  In any case, I was in the US military. More recently, not then. :)  So I can assure you that members are still required to take all shots their commanders require them to take just as Washington did.  That's constitutional as the Supreme Court has ruled it's part of proper order. You can't have subordinates refusing to follow legal orders of their commanders in war when battles can be won or lost based on casualties from disease.  But it's different for civilians.  They're constitutionally protected in ways soldiers aren't. 

TechTalk

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #1997 on: September 30, 2021, 05:43:59 pm »

No one said that it requires officials, elected to protect the lives and safety of citizens, to stand idly by while a pandemic spreads causing death and permanent injury.

Living in a civil society places a cost and obligation on its citizens as well. Protecting the health, lives, and safety of others may place a burden on individual citizens that isn't welcomed by all, but is necessary to achieve those goals and to maintain Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness for everyone. The first duty of a government is to defend the lives of its citizens from enemies, even when the enemy is a pandemic virus.

All freedoms have limits to provide for civil order and to protect the lives and safety of its citizens.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2021, 05:47:26 pm by TechTalk »
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Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #1998 on: September 30, 2021, 05:51:26 pm »

All freedoms have limits to provide for civil order and to protect the lives and safety of its citizens.
What does that mean related to Covid?  How does the constitution protect or not protect?  What are those limits?

TechTalk

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #1999 on: September 30, 2021, 06:00:07 pm »

How does the constitution protect or not protect?  What are those limits?

Those are matters decided by elected legislators who enact laws, an executive branch tasked with their enforcement, and courts that rule on the legal and constitutional merits of legislative measures and their enforcement. — Junior High Civics Lesson #1
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