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Author Topic: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine  (Read 107120 times)

TechTalk

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #340 on: March 09, 2021, 01:20:34 am »

But of course, Dr. TechTalk above has made his analysis, a guy who won't even give his first name and has never posted one photo he's ever taken in a photo forum he practices medicine in.  But we should trust his analysis as to the efficacy of the J&J vaccines and skip the second dose of Moderna.  Gee thanks, but no thanks.

I haven't made any "analysis as to the efficacy of the J&J vaccines". I linked to an article with the actual clinical trial data and quoted sections from its Q&A. The only thought I expressed was that the advice to take the first vaccine that became available to someone was sensible, based on simple common sense regarding risk. If that's what you regard as "analysis", it sets the bar for that word awfully low.

I have never thought or suggested that anyone should "skip the second dose of Moderna". That's your false assertion about me, which you first attributed to "They", and which frankly, I am failing to appreciate. Of course, "They" are always suspicious and up to nefarious deeds.

I gave facts about the difference between efficacy and effectiveness of vaccines, which you ignore. I also provided information regarding how variants can have an impact on efficacy in clinical trial data and on the longer term overall effectiveness of various vaccines, which you ignore. If you don't want to acknowledge basic facts and information regarding vaccines, that's your decision. You can then focus your attention on how suspicious and untrustworthy "experts" (or those you sometimes simply refer to as "they") are instead.

As for your false or misleading statements regarding anything that I have or have not advocated, I'd like to say... "Gee thanks, but no thanks."
« Last Edit: March 09, 2021, 01:59:56 am by TechTalk »
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Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #341 on: March 09, 2021, 08:59:39 am »

Things are looking up.

America could soon be swimming in COVID-19 vaccine. The shift from scarcity to surplus could bring its own problems.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2021/03/09/covid-19-vaccine-us-surplus-april-coronavirus/4595458001/

LesPalenik

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #342 on: March 09, 2021, 09:10:54 am »

Things are looking up.

America could soon be swimming in COVID-19 vaccine. The shift from scarcity to surplus could bring its own problems.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2021/03/09/covid-19-vaccine-us-surplus-april-coronavirus/4595458001/

No worry about surplus. A third dose could be used in fall by health workers and elderly whose antibodies will have faded by then.
 
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Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #343 on: March 09, 2021, 09:16:53 am »

No worry about surplus. A third dose could be used in fall by health workers and elderly whose antibodies will have faded by then.
 
It's not the only thing that fades when you get older.

We might need a booster to offset the new variants.  I hope not.  But it could happen. 

JoeKitchen

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #344 on: March 09, 2021, 09:44:20 am »

Interesting data from the CDC released yesterday on US C-19 deaths, being reported in England. 

More than 73 percent of Americans who die of COVID-19 are overweight or obese, CDC data reveal

Stay safe, stay in shape, and stay of appropriate weight.  Time to head to the gym. 

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Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #345 on: March 09, 2021, 10:14:12 am »

Interesting data from the CDC released yesterday on US C-19 deaths, being reported in England. 

More than 73 percent of Americans who die of COVID-19 are overweight or obese, CDC data reveal

Stay safe, stay in shape, and stay of appropriate weight.  Time to head to the gym. 


But the article also says that 74% of all Americans are overweight.  So if 73% who die are overweight, that seems like there's no relation between weight and death.  In fact, it lines up exactly.  Am I missing something?

JoeKitchen

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #346 on: March 09, 2021, 12:22:36 pm »

But the article also says that 74% of all Americans are overweight.  So if 73% who die are overweight, that seems like there's no relation between weight and death.  In fact, it lines up exactly.  Am I missing something?

Those two stats are not directly related.  73% of those who have died are overweight, pointing to that being overweight is a leading precursor for death from C-19 (plus a litany of other things). 

The fact that we as a country are so overweight, as the 74% figure shows, is probably the lead reason (not Trump or any other politician) why so many Americans died in the last year.  Similarly, the C-19 death rate for undeveloped countries, which have far fewer overweight citizens, is less, another striking correlation. 

As has been pointed out long before C-19 showed up, if you want to live a more care free life free from many health issues, regardless of age, maintain an appropriate weight.  In the vast majority of cases, it is a personal decision. 
« Last Edit: March 09, 2021, 12:33:14 pm by JoeKitchen »
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Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #347 on: March 09, 2021, 02:40:55 pm »

Those two stats are not directly related.  73% of those who have died are overweight, pointing to that being overweight is a leading precursor for death from C-19 (plus a litany of other things). 

The fact that we as a country are so overweight, as the 74% figure shows, is probably the lead reason (not Trump or any other politician) why so many Americans died in the last year.  Similarly, the C-19 death rate for undeveloped countries, which have far fewer overweight citizens, is less, another striking correlation. 

As has been pointed out long before C-19 showed up, if you want to live a more care free life free from many health issues, regardless of age, maintain an appropriate weight.  In the vast majority of cases, it is a personal decision. 
I'm sorry.  I don't see the relationship. What am I missing?  If three-quarters of Americans are fat, then you'd expect three-quarters of covid deaths to be of people who happen to be fat.  Now if you said 1/4 of Americans are fat but 3/4 of covid deaths are people who are fat, then the statistic would be important. Otherwise, the dead % who are fat just reflect the general population percentage.

EricV

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #348 on: March 09, 2021, 02:50:13 pm »

Interesting data from the CDC released yesterday on US C-19 deaths, being reported in England. 
More than 73 percent of Americans who die of COVID-19 are overweight or obese, CDC data reveal

I don't know where this article got its data, but both the data and the interpretation look bogus.  Here is a link to actual CDC data.  Table 3 shows that out of a sample of 160000 Covid deaths, 5600 were linked to obesity as a contributing cause.

https://www.wfla.com/community/health/coronavirus/new-cdc-report-shows-94-of-covid-19-deaths-in-us-had-underlying-medical-conditions/
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Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #349 on: March 09, 2021, 02:59:02 pm »

I don't know where this article got its data, but both the data and the interpretation look bogus.  Here is a link to actual CDC data.  Table 3 shows that out of a sample of 160000 Covid deaths, 5600 were linked to obesity as a contributing cause.

https://www.wfla.com/community/health/coronavirus/new-cdc-report-shows-94-of-covid-19-deaths-in-us-had-underlying-medical-conditions/
When you think about many statistics, you can create any scenario to prove a point.,  For example, they say older people with comorbidities are more likely to die.  Well, most older people have some commorbities like heart issues, diabetes, etc.  But the main reason they might be dying is because they're, well, old.  Their bodies can't handle the Covid attack. So they die.  Not because of the comorbidities but because the virus takes a toll on it's own.  But it's hard to prove they would have died anyway just of old age and COvid by itself.

jeremyrh

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #350 on: March 09, 2021, 03:16:57 pm »

But the article also says that 74% of all Americans are overweight.  So if 73% who die are overweight, that seems like there's no relation between weight and death.  In fact, it lines up exactly.  Am I missing something?

Clue - the linked article is from the Daily Mail which is a piece of garbage that I wouldn’t insult my arse by using it to wipe with. If you look at the graphs, which were copied from elsewhere and not invented by the half-witted journalist, they show a correlation between BMI and rate of hospitalisation, which different from the story you get from just comparing percentages.
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faberryman

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #351 on: March 09, 2021, 04:06:58 pm »

When you think about many statistics, you can create any scenario to prove a point.

In my experience, that has not been true.

For example, they say older people with comorbidities are more likely to die.  Well, most older people have some commorbities like heart issues, diabetes, etc.  But the main reason they might be dying is because they're, well, old.  Their bodies can't handle the Covid attack. So they die.  Not because of the comorbidities but because the virus takes a toll on it's own.  But it's hard to prove they would have died anyway just of old age and COvid by itself.

Why would that be hard to prove? You could look at data and see if the mortality rate was the same in old patients with and without comorbidities.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #352 on: March 09, 2021, 04:09:47 pm »

In my experience, that has not been true.

Why would that be hard to prove? You could look at data and see if the mortality rate was the same in old patients with and without comorbidities.
Being old with comorbidities, I took their word for it and put on my mask.  :)

faberryman

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #353 on: March 09, 2021, 04:15:59 pm »

When you think about many statistics, you can create any scenario to prove a point.

In my experience, that has not been true.

For example, they say older people with comorbidities are more likely to die.  Well, most older people have some commorbities like heart issues, diabetes, etc.  But the main reason they might be dying is because they're, well, old.  Their bodies can't handle the Covid attack. So they die.  Not because of the comorbidities but because the virus takes a toll on it's own.  But it's hard to prove they would have died anyway just of old age and COvid by itself.

Why would that be hard to prove? You could look at data and see if the mortality rate was the same in old patients with and without comorbidities.

Being old with comorbidities, I took their word for it and put on my mask.  :)

First, who is "they"? Second, what does that have to do with your assertion that:

But the main reason they might be dying is because they're, well, old.  Their bodies can't handle the Covid attack. So they die.  Not because of the comorbidities but because the virus takes a toll on it's own.  But it's hard to prove they would have died anyway just of old age and COvid by itself.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #354 on: March 09, 2021, 04:22:22 pm »

First, who is "they"? Second, what does that have to do with your assertion that:

I'm making conversation. Trying to make people think beyond what they read.  You don't have to agree with me.  In fact, brainstorming is suppose to create different scenarios, even if some seem impossible. 

Why do you think old people die from Covid?  Do you think age on its own has most to do with it?  Forget the charts.  What does your common sense say to you?  In fact, don't Google it.  Don't read any charts.  What does your logic tell you? 

faberryman

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #355 on: March 09, 2021, 04:27:25 pm »

I'm making conversation. Trying to make people think beyond what they read.  You don't have to agree with me.  In fact, brainstorming is suppose to create different scenarios, even if some seem impossible. 

Why do you think old people die from Covid?  Do you think age on its own has most to do with it?  Forget the charts.  What does your common sense say to you?  In fact, don't Google it.  Don't read any charts.  What does your logic tell you?

I think facts matter, so I will continue to seek them out. I am not very impressed with wild ass guesses, particularly from people who have no education, training, or experience in what they are wild ass guessing about, and who actively ignore the facts.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2021, 05:16:34 pm by faberryman »
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Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #356 on: March 10, 2021, 12:41:25 am »

I think facts matter, so I will continue to seek them out. I am not very impressed with wild ass guesses, particularly from people who have no education, training, or experience in what they are wild ass guessing about, and who actively ignore the facts.
What did people do before Google search?  Do you ever trust your own judgment and experience in life? Or do you always check things out with others?  Maybe they're dumb and just have a good line and BSing you.  A lot of people have great credentials and not a bit of common sense. Being able to read between the lines is often more important then the words themselves. 

LesPalenik

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #357 on: March 10, 2021, 12:58:47 am »

What did people do before Google search? 

They were playing cards and ping pong.
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TechTalk

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #358 on: March 10, 2021, 01:58:53 am »

What did people do before Google search?

An encyclopedia set at home, a good public library, and new and used book stores. I still love shopping in used book stores. There were also great magazines for a wide range of interests.

The encyclopedias that I read growing up had additional articles suggested at the bottom of each article, similar to the links to related information which web pages often contain. The public library was great; if you could also get access to a college library, all the better. At the used book stores I've shopped, you can take books in for credit toward other books; though, I've generally donated the books I need to clear out in order to make room for recent purchases.
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TechTalk

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #359 on: March 10, 2021, 02:09:59 am »

Being able to read between the lines is often more important then the words themselves.

A good dictionary was also helpful then. There were also compact dictionaries which were more convenient to carry than the full-sized editions.

Don't you you need to read the words themselves first and then read between the lines?

* Now then... what's happening with vaccines?
« Last Edit: March 10, 2021, 03:53:44 am by TechTalk »
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