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Author Topic: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine  (Read 73351 times)

James Clark

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2980 on: January 16, 2022, 07:55:47 pm »

For some of the political posts here; I've hit quote, then copied the quote, and then pasted and replied to it in the political thread. It's easy enough to do. I'll try to do that with all of my replies to posts which don't meet the purpose of this thread.

That's an awesome idea.   I will follow suit :)
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Peter McLennan

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2981 on: January 17, 2022, 12:15:29 am »

But this is a thread that is supposed to be about the coronavirus, not politics.  I started it almost exactly a year ago ...

Really good post, Chris.  You're dead right, of course.  It no longer matters where it came from ("MOM!  He started it!" ) We should all resolve to keep politics and, for that matter off topic opinions, where they belong.
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LesPalenik

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2982 on: January 17, 2022, 08:03:51 am »

This week, Quebec Premier François Legault announced a plan to introduce a tax on people who refuse to get vaccinated against COVID-19. It would be a considerable step beyond what any jurisdiction in Canada has done to this point and it's unclear how it would work. But there are other places around the world that have tried similar things.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2983 on: January 17, 2022, 09:26:57 am »

This week, Quebec Premier François Legault announced a plan to introduce a tax on people who refuse to get vaccinated against COVID-19. It would be a considerable step beyond what any jurisdiction in Canada has done to this point and it's unclear how it would work. But there are other places around the world that have tried similar things.
Les, I think that would be a political post you just made. 

Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2984 on: January 17, 2022, 09:41:29 am »

But this is a thread that is supposed to be about the coronavirus, not politics.  I started it almost exactly a year ago with the idea that participants (including, at the time, two medical doctors who both, unfortunately, no longer participate) could share information and discuss the vaccines that were then beginning to appear—but its expansion into other factual submissions relating to the virus is certainly reasonable; we all know that Internet forums tend to evolve.

What doesn't make sense is turning it into a forum for political arguments.  There is another forum thread expressly for that.  I've considered locking this one—as the originator, I'm under the impression it is my prerogative to do that—but in addition to my disinclination to shut down discussion, I still occasionally find some useful information here and I presume others do as well.

As photographers, amateurs like me as well as the pros, many of us probably are accustomed to traveling frequently, and this once-in-a-lifetime pandemic has really put a crimp in our plans.  I hoped when I started this thread that it could help all of us figure out how safely to best resume our pre-pandemic activities.

I applaud the latest offers to cool down the rhetoric, but in addition to that I would encourage those who use this thread to instigate political debate or who can't resist the urge to respond to opinions which obviously have no arguable basis in fact to move their comments to the thread intended for that purpose.
First, I acknowledge I have made political comments here.  So have most other posters.  While I think the idea, Chris, of keeping politics out of this is interesting, I don't see any practical way to do that. How do you discuss the distribution of vaccines without referring to political decisions as to how and why it's being done one way or the other? How can you discuss the shortage of test kits without discussing how politicians handle the ordering of them? How can you discuss the percentage of people who have been vaccinated without discussing why the numbers are the way they are. That's politics.  Les's last post about the implementation of a tax is a fact, yet it's also political.  How do you say it without it becoming political?  It's like discussing the features of a new Nikon without adding comments about your preferences for one feature over another.  it's just not practical.

Having said that, I'm willing to try it to see how it goes.  I think what's going to happen is that all comments are going to wind up in the other thread.  Just posting statistics about this or that without opinion and comments on what they mean, is very uninteresting and has little value.

Chris Kern

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2985 on: January 17, 2022, 10:07:45 am »

I think what's going to happen is that all comments are going to wind up in the other thread.

Excellent idea.  Implement immediately.

LesPalenik

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2986 on: January 17, 2022, 10:35:19 am »

Les, I think that would be a political post you just made.

I think that news item is more about the covid virus and a method how to mitigate its effects than about any political angle, liberal or conservative.
Let's not get too silly about the minutia. What about virus stats and corresponding charts? Are they also political statements?
And where would you report a death of a senator who died because of covid? Reflecting the fact that the virus was stronger than the senator.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2987 on: January 17, 2022, 10:45:36 am »

I think that news item is more about the covid virus and a method how to mitigate its effects than about any political angle, liberal or conservative.
Let's not get too silly about the minutia. What about virus stats and corresponding charts? Are they also political statements?
And where would you report a death of a senator who died because of covid? Reflecting the fact that the virus was stronger than the senator.
I agree with you.  Discuss it with Chris.

Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2988 on: January 17, 2022, 11:11:50 am »

 How do you discuss tax on nonvaccinated people in Canada without discussing how their individual rights and property are being taken away by government edict? That's political. How do you separate policy from politics?  They come from the same root. "pol"  Whenever we discuss policies relating to Covid, we're in the realm of politics.  Even statistics are political in nature.  When we post statistics that reflect Covid policies in a good or bad light, aren't we winking and nodding and trying to make a political statement as to how it should be handled?  Well, that's policy and therefore politics.  You can't separate the two leaving little to post here.

Here's an interesting discussion on this below the dashed line. 
----------------------------------------------------

The answer is not easy because “policy” is one of those words that confuses. I’ve read hundreds of definitions. Not one seems to catch the reality of this important concept. After all, government policy can take away liberty, property and rights as well as protect them. Government policy affects everyday life in ways big and small.

“Policy” comes from the ancient Greek politikos (πολιτικός) denoting citizen, and giving rise to polis, the city. Latin adopted the Greek to form policia (citizenship). The family of English words from this root include: policy; politic; polity; and police.

My preferred meaning of policy? Frameworks for making decisions about public issues and public governance.
http://www.decisiveconsultants.com.au/the-poli-
words/#:~:text=%E2%80%9CPolicy%E2%80%9D%20comes%20from%20the%20ancient,politic%3B%20polity%3B%20and%20police.

Eric Myrvaagnes

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2989 on: January 17, 2022, 11:59:17 am »

I've been following this thread since it started, and I agree that it would be hard to separate the simple "news" from any political issues, and I would prefer to get all commentary in one thread without having to go looking for a related "political" thread for commentary.

This thread seems to me to be an excellent place for news, discussion, policy, and political commentary on the Corona virus and on vaccination,
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digitaldog

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2990 on: January 17, 2022, 12:07:39 pm »

Les, I think that would be a political post you just made.

I think that news item is more about the covid virus and a method how to mitigate its effects than about any political angle, liberal or conservative.
Let's not get too silly about the minutia. What about virus stats and corresponding charts? Are they also political statements?
And where would you report a death of a senator who died because of covid? Reflecting the fact that the virus was stronger than the senator.

One of you above isn't thinking, just jerking your knee again. Working on hijacking the topic again. 
One of you is thinking and expressing it. Although asking a question to the first fellow is pointless. As you'll soon see.
It's all moot of course, the fellow who jerks his knee will get back to making this political. Maybe not today, but soon enough. He can't help himself.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2991 on: January 17, 2022, 12:10:12 pm »

I've been following this thread since it started, and I agree that it would be hard to separate the simple "news" from any political issues, and I would prefer to get all commentary in one thread without having to go looking for a related "political" thread for commentary.

This thread seems to me to be an excellent place for news, discussion, policy, and political commentary on the Corona virus and on vaccination,
Your wish is granted.  Having a single place for all makes sense to me as well.

Here you go.
https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=140036.0

digitaldog

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2992 on: January 17, 2022, 12:50:43 pm »

I've been following this thread since it started, and I agree that it would be hard to separate the simple "news" from any political issues, and I would prefer to get all commentary in one thread without having to go looking for a related "political" thread for commentary.

This thread seems to me to be an excellent place for news, discussion, policy, and political commentary on the Corona virus and on vaccination,
I too would prefer to get all commentary in one thread. Here.
As you can see, Alan completely missed the points above.
Since he can't seem to wrap his head around this established thred about Coronavirus san's overt political posting, he's started a new thread where he promises not to do what he's done here. Go figure.
He has one thread where he can overtly post about politics that's hundreds of pages long, filled with a massive degree of (his) political BS, that apparently isn't enough for him, again, go figure.
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digitaldog

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2993 on: January 17, 2022, 12:55:20 pm »

Getting back on topic, specifically vaccines:
Moderna: Combined Covid-19 and flu booster could be available by fall 2023
Quote
A combined Covid-19 and flu booster shot from Moderna could be available in some countries by fall 2023 at the earliest, CEO Stéphane Bancel said Monday.
Speaking at the Davos Agenda, a virtual event being held this week by the World Economic Forum, Bancel said this date was a “best case scenario,” but that he believed it was possible for some countries next year.
He explained it was a goal for the company to have a single annual booster shot available to avoid “compliance issues” where people are wary about getting multiple shots every winter.
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Peter McLennan

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2994 on: January 17, 2022, 01:00:53 pm »

Getting back on topic, specifically vaccines:
Moderna: Combined Covid-19 and flu booster could be available by fall 2023

Fantastic. You go, boys!

I'll take a day of 1% flu/Covid symptoms over many days of 100% symptoms any time.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2995 on: January 17, 2022, 01:48:51 pm »

I too would prefer to get all commentary in one thread. Here.
As you can see, Alan completely missed the points above.
Since he can't seem to wrap his head around this established thred about Coronavirus san's overt political posting, he's started a new thread where he promises not to do what he's done here. Go figure.
He has one thread where he can overtly post about politics that's hundreds of pages long, filled with a massive degree of (his) political BS, that apparently isn't enough for him, again, go figure.

I've given people a choice.  It will avoid disagreements on this thread about what is political and what isn't.

The other thread will give a person the ability to discuss all aspects of covid.

digitaldog

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2996 on: January 17, 2022, 04:34:55 pm »

I've given people a choice.  It will avoid disagreements on this thread about what is political and what isn't.
Ridiculous. It didn't work here, you think it will change there? Prove it.
Quote
The other thread will give a person the ability to discuss all aspects of covid.
Ridiculous. It didn't work here, you think it will change there? Prove it.

You are clearly unaware of the one forum for political discussions or this fact from the fellow who left due to abuse:
It's 4th November (2020). From now, this thread is the only place at The Luminous Landscape in which political discussion (including discussion of climate change) is permitted: see here for more information.

Those who enter this thread do so at their own risk. I may read it myself, or I may look merely at complaints submitted to the moderators by outraged members who have strayed into it, accidentally or otherwise. I have closed down political discussion here because it was occupying too much of my time; if this thread intrudes similarly, it will not survive.

Jeremy
https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=136697.msg1193523#msg1193523
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Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2997 on: January 17, 2022, 05:02:56 pm »

Ridiculous. It didn't work here, you think it will change there? Prove it. Ridiculous. It didn't work here, you think it will change there? Prove it.

You are clearly unaware of the one forum for political discussions or this fact from the fellow who left due to abuse:https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=136697.msg1193523#msg1193523
First off, Jeremy was fired years ago and is no longer in charge.  If the new moderator objects, he can let us know. Second, there are not suppose to be personal attacks either as part of the general rules of LuLa. But those were occurring frequently; hopefully those have ended. Third, I didn't start a specific second political thread.  I started a thread on general Covid issues that's open to all discussions. These include masks, testing, economy, jobs, mandates, and policy.  This thread is titled for vaccinations ("Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine"), apparently statistics only.  That's very limiting.

If some of the posts are coincidentally political, so be it.  As others have suggested, it's difficult to split up discussions on a particular topic between two threads.  My new thread will cover the whole gamut to make things easier to post.  If it still bothers you, you can ignore that thread.  Thanks. 

PeterAit

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2998 on: January 17, 2022, 05:04:15 pm »

For better or worse, the corona virus and related things (vaccines, masks) have become politicized. It's beyond me how the right wing has so firmly come down on the side of anti-science and anti-public health and used the mantras of "freedom" and "rights" as excuses for selfishness and stupidity. So yes, covid and politics are inextricably linked.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2999 on: January 17, 2022, 05:41:16 pm »

For better or worse, the corona virus and related things (vaccines, masks) have become politicized. It's beyond me how the right wing has so firmly come down on the side of anti-science and anti-public health and used the mantras of "freedom" and "rights" as excuses for selfishness and stupidity. So yes, covid and politics are inextricably linked.
Peter your post is political and doesn't belong in this thread.  You'll have to take this comment to my thread. 
https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=140036.0
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