Pages: 1 ... 116 117 [118] 119 120 ... 153   Go Down

Author Topic: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine  (Read 107517 times)

digitaldog

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 20646
  • Andrew Rodney
    • http://www.digitaldog.net/
Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2340 on: December 05, 2021, 05:39:29 pm »

If they want to kill themselves, OK. When their actions kill others, then "deplorable" is too gentle a description.
They just need to work a LOT faster.  ;)
Logged
http://www.digitaldog.net/
Author "Color Management for Photographers".

TechTalk

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3612
Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2341 on: December 05, 2021, 05:43:36 pm »

If they want to kill themselves, OK. When their actions kill others, then "deplorable" is too gentle a description.

When the misinformation they spread has the potential to result in another's death, they're at the very least dangerous to others that believe their false assertions.
Logged
Respice, adspice, prospice - Look to the past, the present, the future

TechTalk

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3612
Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2342 on: December 05, 2021, 06:57:32 pm »

Now, I'll take some of my time to address the topic of "cherry-picking" data. I'll start with some general principles and in a later post address the specifics of the flu and Covid-19 statistics that I posted.

Others have already posted, as have I, that when you're attempting to make a comparison of two different things with some similar characteristics and some differences, to gather data and compare their difference in some aspect, you want to minimize the variables by making the the conditions for comparison as identical as you can for the items being compared. It's common sense as well as standard practice in making comparisons for the obvious reason that changing the conditions for one item will skew the results relative to the other. Others have used analogy to illustrate the principle and I'll have a go at it as well.

Let's take two different devices which receive broadcasts transmitted thru the air, a TV and a portable radio. You want to determine how many stations each will receive. Your TV is connected to your HDTV antenna and your portable radio has a built-in AM/FM antenna (one of several differences between the devices) and you're testing them as you use them to receive transmissions each day. You put them side by side in your living room, at the same time, and record the number of stations each receives clearly. You now have some data on the number of stations each receives under those specific conditions at that time and place. You have one valid data set relative to those conditions.

Your friend objects and says that it isn't a valid comparison because you have "cherry-picked" the location. Your television is typically stationary and viewed only at your home in the city, whereas the portable radio is typically mobile and could be used in a variety of locations outside of your home, he says. So, he borrows the radio and records data in the mountains, the valley, the desert, and other locations and gives you his data record. Thanks, but you didn't have the TV to compare under those conditions, you say. Sorry, I didn't have a generator to power the TV, he replies. You gratefully acknowledge the additional data, but you can't make any valid comparisons from it because there was no data for the TV under those same conditions. It's additional data, but it only tells you how one of the items you were looking to compare actually functioned under those different conditions. Seeing how the portable radio varied in reception is interesting, but it gives you no useful comparison data.

We have data on influenza from before the 1918 pandemic until now. It's useful for comparing and evaluating how the flu changes from one season to the next, how it is evolving over time, the variations in different influenza virus types and subclasses and their effects at different times in various places. It's useful data for comparing specific flu viruses or seasons to others due to the evolving nature of the virus and its multitude of variations over time.

COVID-19 is a different virus which shares some similar characteristics with the flu, like the modes of transmission and the fact they both mutate and evolve for instance. There are also differences between them, like the rates of transmission and mortality. Another major difference is that COVID-19 has only been circulating in the population for the past two years, which means that time period is all that is available with which to compare.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2021, 03:16:10 am by TechTalk »
Logged
Respice, adspice, prospice - Look to the past, the present, the future

TechTalk

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3612
Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2343 on: December 05, 2021, 07:25:14 pm »

Additionally, As I've stated before...

Frankly, I don't find comparisons of COVID-19 to seasonal flu very useful

I'll provide more details on why I find little value for the comparison in a followup.

I provided statistics comparing the two ONLY because of this potentially dangerous (to anyone foolish enough to believe it) bit of misinformation...

For those under 45, the fatality rate is comparable to the flu.

In the meantime... I have updated an earlier post of flu and COVID-19 death statistics to include some additional data and reorganized it for easier reading. If anyone is curious you can find it here.

Perhaps someone who agrees that "Covid in 2020/2021 should be compared to earlier flu seasons like 2018/2019" can check the statistics linked above and tell me which is the most typical flu season to compare. Is it the one closest to the average for total flu deaths or the flu season closest to the average deaths for ages 0-49? Is it the season where the percentage of total flu deaths comprised of ages 0-49 is closest to the average percentage for that group? Hint: there is no flu season that's typical or average in all aspects. Flu seasons vary tremendously in a variety of ways from year to year as is readily apparent from the data linked above.

Also, which COVID-19 year should be used, 2020 or 2021? The ages 0-49 death rate is twice as high in 2021. I didn't "cherry-pick" any specific year in my original reply to Joe which had both years combined for both flu and COVID-19 deaths, despite Joe's false claim of "you're posting the total deaths of Covid through the pandemic, while the flu deaths are only for this year".
Logged
Respice, adspice, prospice - Look to the past, the present, the future

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15850
    • Flicker photos
Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2344 on: December 05, 2021, 09:12:59 pm »

If they want to kill themselves, OK. When their actions kill others, then "deplorable" is too gentle a description.
Yes.  Democrats should continue to insult these people.

digitaldog

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 20646
  • Andrew Rodney
    • http://www.digitaldog.net/
Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2345 on: December 05, 2021, 09:33:55 pm »

Yes.  Democrats should continue to insult these people.
"The first human being who hurled an insult instead of a stone was the founder of civilization." -Sigmund Freud
Logged
http://www.digitaldog.net/
Author "Color Management for Photographers".

LesPalenik

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5339
    • advantica blog
Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2346 on: December 05, 2021, 09:41:53 pm »

CBC reported today 1,000 new Covid cases in Ontario. Even more worrisome is the fact that half of these infections occured in vaccinated people.
So the best protection remains social distancing.
Logged

Robert Roaldi

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4768
    • Robert's Photos
Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2347 on: December 05, 2021, 09:49:25 pm »

Yes.  Democrats should continue to insult these people.

Does anyone besides me ever ever take a step back and marvel at the fact that, seemingly, in the US the response to a virus depends on political affiliation. It's ludicrous.
Logged
--
Robert

Robert Roaldi

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4768
    • Robert's Photos
Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2348 on: December 05, 2021, 09:57:40 pm »

CBC reported today 1,000 new Covid cases in Ontario. Even more worrisome is the fact that half of these infections occured in vaccinated people.
So the best protection remains social distancing.

If by "infection" they mean absorbing a detectable viral load, then it makes some sense that this should happen. Vaccinations aren't force fields. What I don't know is how long it takes for the body to get rid of the viral load once it gets in you. If a vaccinated person gets tested before the immune system has eliminated the virus, will the test show up positive?

What I see here in Ottawa is that in general, people are becoming careless in their distancing and other measures. My wife and I met some another couple for lunch in a restaurant 2 weeks ago and we were not asked for proof of vaccination. I hear similar stories from others. Maybe it's a sign of increased complacency, which seems premature to me.
Logged
--
Robert

digitaldog

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 20646
  • Andrew Rodney
    • http://www.digitaldog.net/
Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2349 on: December 05, 2021, 10:04:14 pm »

Does anyone besides me ever ever take a step back and marvel at the fact that, seemingly, in the US the response to a virus depends on political affiliation. It's ludicrous.
Yes, it is. This is:
Quote
According to the Kaiser Family Foundation, “Republicans and Republican-leaning independents, who represent 41 percent of adults, now make up 60 percent of the adult unvaccinated population across the country.” In fact, the foundation found, political partisanship was the strongest predictor of someone’s vaccination status. As of Dec. 2, Kaiser discovered, a staggering 91 percent of Democrats are vaccinated with at least one dose of a Covid vaccine while just 59 percent of Republicans are.
This information, while unsettling, should come as no surprise to anyone who has been paying attention to the GOP. Many Republicans and conservatives at Fox News have fully embraced vaccine misinformation while also downplaying the risks of the virus — like Rep. Matt Gaetz (R-Fla.), who told One America News on Saturday, “The best vaccine we’ve found is Mother Nature’s vaccine. It’s contracting the virus.”
https://apple.news/AmA4cqDMwQLCx6iE-YWvJ_w
« Last Edit: December 05, 2021, 10:09:31 pm by digitaldog »
Logged
http://www.digitaldog.net/
Author "Color Management for Photographers".

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15850
    • Flicker photos
Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2350 on: December 05, 2021, 10:14:41 pm »

Does anyone besides me ever ever take a step back and marvel at the fact that, seemingly, in the US the response to a virus depends on political affiliation. It's ludicrous.
the Democrats started it. When Trump shut down travel from China in January of 2020, Biden called him a xenophobe and the Democrats called him a racist. On the other hand when Biden shut down travel recently from 6 black nations in Africa due to Omicron,  the Republican party didn't call him a racist. I blame the Democrats for starting the political fight about covid.

digitaldog

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 20646
  • Andrew Rodney
    • http://www.digitaldog.net/
Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2351 on: December 05, 2021, 10:25:59 pm »

the Democrats started it. When Trump shut down travel from China in January of 2020, Biden called him a xenophobe and the Democrats called him a racist. On the other hand when Biden shut down travel recently from 6 black nations in Africa due to Omicron,  the Republican party didn't call him a racist. I blame the Democrats for starting the political fight about covid.
Absurd. Wrong. Nothing new.
Logged
http://www.digitaldog.net/
Author "Color Management for Photographers".

TechTalk

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3612
Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2352 on: December 05, 2021, 11:01:04 pm »

the Democrats started it.

Listen kids... I'll turn this car around right now and we won't get any ice cream. Now settle down back there and leave each other alone!
Logged
Respice, adspice, prospice - Look to the past, the present, the future

Peter McLennan

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4690
Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2353 on: December 05, 2021, 11:10:26 pm »

Listen kids... I'll turn this car around right now and we won't get any ice cream. Now settle down back there and leave each other alone!

No fucking kidding.
Logged

chez

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2501
Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2354 on: December 06, 2021, 10:42:24 am »

CBC reported today 1,000 new Covid cases in Ontario. Even more worrisome is the fact that half of these infections occured in vaccinated people.
So the best protection remains social distancing.

I’m more concerned about people getting sick and needing hospital care. That’s where I’m hoping the vaccines make a huge difference.
Logged

PeterAit

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4559
    • Peter Aitken Photographs
Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2355 on: December 06, 2021, 11:09:26 am »

Yes.  Democrats should continue to insult these people.

Why "Democrats?" Unless you think that informed and intelligent people are all Democrats.

But I agree that insulting people never does any good. But when these chowderheads are immune to facts, statistics, and logic and continue fucking up my country then it is really hard to constrain the insults.
Logged

digitaldog

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 20646
  • Andrew Rodney
    • http://www.digitaldog.net/
Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2356 on: December 06, 2021, 03:02:03 pm »

Yes.  Democrats should continue to insult these people.
Better than infecting them with a deadly disease! From “The Hill” that left leaning news organization:
Quote
Former President Trump came in contact with 500 people after he tested positive for COVID-19 last year, according to a recently published Washington Post analysis.

​
Trump came into contact with 500 people during the seven days after he tested positive for the virus and before he was hospitalized due to COVID-19.

​
The analysis claims that Trump and his former chief of staff Mark Meadows took a “reckless” and “potentially dangerous” approach to dealing with the virus.

What a guy: and he does not “own it” but should.

https://thehill.com/regulation/administration/584460-trump-came-in-contact-with-500-people-between-first-positive-test

https://apple.news/ABlwPzR7iT66JM1xOjCfDuw
« Last Edit: December 06, 2021, 03:05:12 pm by digitaldog »
Logged
http://www.digitaldog.net/
Author "Color Management for Photographers".

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15850
    • Flicker photos
Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2357 on: December 06, 2021, 03:54:43 pm »

Why "Democrats?" Unless you think that informed and intelligent people are all Democrats.

But I agree that insulting people never does any good. But when these chowderheads are immune to facts, statistics, and logic and continue fucking up my country then it is really hard to constrain the insults.
Yes, keep beating those chowderheads with a two-by-four until they come around and straighten up and fly right. They just aren't paying attention. 

TechTalk

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3612
Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2358 on: December 06, 2021, 04:02:11 pm »

They just aren't paying attention.

Well, at least that statement is true. Now, can the political discussions move somewhere else instead of trying to hijack this thread?

Now... I have to run to my appointment for my booster shot and flu vaccination... and that's true as well.
Logged
Respice, adspice, prospice - Look to the past, the present, the future

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15850
    • Flicker photos
Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2359 on: December 06, 2021, 04:04:02 pm »

Well, at least that statement is true. Now, can the political discussions move somewhere else instead of trying to hijack this thread?

Now... I have to run to my appointment for my booster shot and flu vaccination... and that's true as well.
Good luck with your shots.  I took mine a few weeks ago.  We deplorable Republicans want to keep up with science, you know.  :)
Pages: 1 ... 116 117 [118] 119 120 ... 153   Go Up