Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa

[TechTalk]

...It's happening on his watch and he did nothing but aggravate the situation... 

That's a perfect description of Trump's complete dereliction of duty for over three hours while the Capitol of the United States, the Vice President, and every senator and representative of the United States government were under siege by a violent mob. The insurrection was carried out to delay, prevent, and  terrorize those whose duty it was to certify the peaceful transfer of power, as required by the Constitution, from fulfilling their obligation.

It's an unforgivable violation of the oath of office to "defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic". Is there any higher duty the president has to the country?

[TechTalk]

...Many retired early due to the extra government money they got...

I'll try again... How many retired early due to the extra government money they got?

Do you know or just throwing it out there as bait?

[Alan Klein]

That's a perfect description of Trump's complete dereliction of duty for over three hours while the Capitol of the United States, the Vice President, and every senator and representative of the United States government were under siege by a violent mob. The insurrection was carried out to delay, prevent, and  terrorize those whose duty it was to certify the peaceful transfer of power, as required by the Constitution, from fulfilling their obligation.

It's an unforgivable violation of the oath of office to "defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic". Is there any higher duty the president has to the country?

What you're doing with this post about Jan 6th and Trump is what Democrats are trying to do with the hearings. Distract the public from the inflation and rising gasoline, food, and other prices created by Biden and the Democrats. Look here, not there.  I don't think it's going to work in November. The public has wised up and isn't going to be fooled this time.

[digitaldog]

The public has wised up and isn't going to be fooled this time.

"Who's the more foolish: the fool, or the fool who follows him" -OBI-WAN KENOBI

[Alan Klein]

How many retired early due to stimulus funds? How much stimulus money did they receive?

Do you know or just throwing it out there as bait?

I never bait anyone.  Here is an analysis showing why many more older people retired.  While there are a number of factors, stimulous and high unemployment insurance payments are important reasons.  Why look for a job after being laid off when you're getting paid so much to stay home.  Then when the payments run out, you retire and start collecting Social Security.  Where are you going to get a job at that age for the same money you were making? No one's going to hire you anyway. Let's say you were a middle manager making $70K.  You get laid off.  The only job you can find is a greeter for Home Depot.  Why work?  Better to retire and collect SS. pensions, and live off your 401K. 

Social Security Trend: Stimulus Money Allowed Seniors To Retire Early and Receive Full Benefits
Many experts say the trend has been driven by three separate forces: generous federal stimulus and unemployment insurance payments; bigger retirement funds thanks to stock market gains and soaring home values; and COVID-related restrictions that have forced seniors to apply for Social Security benefits online rather than in field offices.
https://www.gobankingrates.com/retirement/social-security/social-security-trend-stimulus-money-allowed-seniors-to-retire-early-but-receive-full-benefits/

[TechTalk]

What kind of complete disregard for freedom, democracy, and your country does it take to brush aside and dismiss the substance and gravity of an assault on the nation's capitol while the president does nothing except inflame the mob for hours?

How very very sad that anyone puts their political party and ideology above their country. I have no idea how the mind of a collaborator cooperating in minimizing, deflecting, and covering up the undermining of democracy in their country rationalizes their actions and I'm glad that I can't fathom it.

[Alan Klein]

What kind of complete disregard for freedom, democracy, and your country does it take to brush aside and dismiss the substance and gravity of an assault on the nation's capitol while the president does nothing except inflame the mob for hours?

How very very sad that anyone puts their political party and ideology above their country. I have no idea how the mind of a collaborator cooperating in minimizing, deflecting, and covering up the undermining of democracy in their country rationalizes their actions and I'm glad that I can't fathom it.

I guess we're even.  I don't understand you either.    In any case, we're just repeating the same points. 

[TechTalk]

I never bait anyone...

You never stop baiting people. You just did it again by claiming that "Many retired early due to the extra government money they got" and only acknowledged other critical factors, such as "bigger retirement funds thanks to stock market gains and soaring home values" when pressed on the matter. Disingenuous bait once again.

[Alan Klein]

You never stop baiting people. You just did it again by claiming that "Many retired early due to the extra government money they got" and only acknowledged other critical factors, such as "bigger retirement funds thanks to stock market gains and soaring home values" when pressed on the matter. Disingenuous bait once again.

You asked me "How many retired early due to stimulus funds? How much stimulus money did they receive?"

I answered: "A lot of people who were laid off got over a year of unemployment insurance payments between their state and federal payments.  Since their place of work was shut down anyway or not hiring back during this period, a lot of them opted to just call it quits and retire. They were at that age anyway, ready for Social Security, had a 401K plan, and if lucky had a pension as well.  They didn't want the hassle of looking for another job and starting all over again."

How is that baiting?  Are there other reasons?  Well sure.  But I answered your question as accurately as I understood the situation.  When pressed by you, I did some more research and found an article that described in more detail.    It was the stimulus and unemployment insurance followed by an inability to get an equal job (in my opinion) that was the first reason they listed. Sure home values and stock values helped for some of them.  But it was government payments and no available job for many of them.  Stop playijg silly gotcha games.   

[TechTalk]

I guess we're even.  I don't understand you either.

It's not that complicated. I cherish the freedom we share and derive from having a constitutional democratic republic.

Our constitutional democratic republic was attacked by a violent mob that acted on lies knowingly told to them by the president of the United States. He incited the mob with lies for months and on January 6th told them they had to "Save America" and "Stop the Steal", and "if you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore". Then sent them to the Capitol.

After the Capitol was invaded and as legislators were seeking shelter from the mob roaming the halls, the president inflamed the mob further by tweeting "Mike Pence didn't have the courage to do what should have been done to protect our Country and our Constitution." which caused the mob to surge.

Are you even vaguely aware of any of this? Don't you as a citizen find this to be profoundly disturbing?

In any case, we're just repeating the same points.

Defending your country and its democracy is worthy of repetition. Collaborating in covering up and minimizing what has been done, and is still being done, to undermine your country and its democracy is shameful.

[Alan Klein]

It wasn't hours after Biden begged the Saudi's for more oil (they refused and said he'd have to wait until Opec meets) and Biden's fist bumped the Saudi killer's hand, that the Saudis arrested Khashoggi's lawyer who was travelling to a wedding.  (What is it with Saudis and weddings?)   

Well, maybe it was a coincidence. Or maybe, more likely, they were waiting for Biden to let them off the hook and then thumb their nose at him while the contrails of Air Force One were still in the sky above Riyadh.    Time will tell but it looks like another feckless deal like the pullout in Afghanistan. So here we go again, defending the Arabs and their oil with our blood and treasure.  Why didn't Biden just get the American oil industry to help America?

Biden news - live: Jamal Khashoggi’s American lawyer detained in UAE
President Joe Biden’s trip to the Middle East came to an end with yet more controversy after it emerged that an American lawyer who previously represented Jamal Khashoggi had been detained in the UAE.

US citizen Asim Ghafoor was detained at Dubai airport on Thursday while travelling to Istanbul for a family wedding and is now being held in a detention facility on charges related to an in absentia conviction for money laundering. Mr Ghafoor had no prior knowledge of any conviction, a human rights group said.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/biden-today-saudi-arabia-prince-mbs-b2124737.html

[TechTalk]

How is that baiting?

The bait was prior to and what prompted my original question. Don't worry about it. You're obviously blind to it, so there's no point in discussing it.

[Alan Klein]

It's not that complicated. I cherish the freedom we share and derive from having a constitutional democratic republic.

Our constitutional democratic republic was attacked by a violent mob that acted on lies knowingly told to them by the president of the United States. He incited the mob with lies for months and on January 6th told them they had to "Save America" and "Stop the Steal", and "if you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore". Then sent them to the Capitol.

After the Capitol was invaded and as legislators were seeking shelter from the mob roaming the halls, the president inflamed the mob further by tweeting "Mike Pence didn't have the courage to do what should have been done to protect our Country and our Constitution." which caused the mob to surge.

Are you even vaguely aware of any of this? Don't you as a citizen find this to be profoundly disturbing?

Defending your country and its democracy is worthy of repetition. Collaborating in covering up and minimizing what has been done, and is still being done, to undermine your country and its democracy is shameful.

The demonstration turned into a riot because there were not enough police.  That was the fault of the police and Democratic controlled Congress who run the police ( Was it a setup?  It smells. )   Are politicians who urged on BLM crowds to demonstrate also responsible for the rioting afterward?   Are politicians supposed to silence themselves because people get out of control?   Where is the eveidence TRump told his supporters to enter the Capitol building and stomp on Pelosi;s desk?

[Alan Klein]

The bait was prior to and what prompted my original question. Don't worry about it. You're obviously blind to it, so there's no point in discussing it.

There you go again attacking me rather than my points.

[TechTalk]

Without Trump's repeated BIG LIE about election fraud, which began before the election, there would have been no insurrection, invasion of the Capitol, or the vice-president and legislators being forced to flee for their lives from a violent mob incited by Trump.

You're in a cult. Seek help.

[Robert Roaldi]

The demonstration turned into a riot because there were not enough police. ...

Get a grip.

[TechTalk]

The violent insurrection on January 6th as it appeared to Alan...

[TechTalk]

...That was the fault of the police and Democratic controlled Congress who run the police... [Total Bullshit] ...It smells [It certainly does!]...

For someone that keeps accusing Biden of being senile, you have a poor memory for things that have already been discussed in detail. The Capitol Police Board is the body that governs the United States Capitol Police. It was established in 1873, and today consists of three voting members: the Sergeant at Arms of the United States House of Representatives, the Sergeant at Arms of the United States Senate, and the Architect of the Capitol.

As a reminder...

Just to help you out with your it's Nancy Pelosi's fault narrative. The three member Capitol Police Board, which governs the Capitol Police and its Chief, on January 6, 2021 was comprised entirely of members elected by a Republican controlled House, Republican controlled Senate, or appointed by Trump.

Capitol Police Board on January 6, 2021

• Sergeant at Arms of the United States House of Representatives Paul D. Irving assumed office January 17, 2012 after being elected by the Republican majority House. He resigned January 7, 2021.

• Sergeant at Arms of the United States Senate Michael C. Stenger assumed office April 16, 2018 after being elected by the Republican majority Senate. He resigned January 7, 2021.

• Architect of the Capitol Brett Blanton was nominated by Donald Trump and confirmed by the Republican majority Senate on December 19, 2019. He assumed office January 16, 2020 and is currently serving the remainder of his 10-year term.

Chief of the Capitol Police on January 6, 2021

• Chief of the Capitol Police Steven Sund was appointed as Chief by the Capitol Police Board and assumed office on June 14, 2019. He resigned January 7, 2021 with resignation effective on January 16, 2021.

Title 2, U.S. Code § 1901 - Establishment; officer appointments — There shall be a Capitol police... The Capitol Police shall be headed by a Chief who shall be appointed by the Capitol Police Board and shall serve at the pleasure of the Board.

Or... As you've been narrating it... All under the control of Nancy Pelosi.

Thanks for clarifying that Republicans appointed them especially the House Sergeant of Arms Paul Irving where Pelosi is the speaker...

[LesPalenik]

"A lot of people who were laid off got over a year of unemployment insurance payments between their state and federal payments.  Since their place of work was shut down anyway or not hiring back during this period, a lot of them opted to just call it quits and retire. They were at that age anyway, ready for Social Security, had a 401K plan, and if lucky had a pension as well.  They didn't want the hassle of looking for another job and starting all over again."

Unfortunately, there were quite a few people taking advantage of the generous government offers who stopped working and chose taking the easy money instead. And this happened not only in USA, but also in other countries. I know personally people in USA, Canada and Germany who did exactly what Alan described.
Too much money printing and other stupid decisions caused by Fed and well meaning, but clueless and incompetent politicians.

[PeterAit]

While some of those Covid payments did help people in need.  Much of it was not necessary.  My wife and I received stimulus money although we never had a decrease in our earnings from our pensions and social security.  There are millions of others who got so much stimulus money, they did want to go back to work.  Many retired early due to the extra government money they got leaving the job market unable to fill it's requirements to this day.  So Biden get the blame.  His spending actions never showed any restraint.   

I agree, much of the stimulus money was unnecessary. We were in the same boat as you and did not need it, so we gave it all away to groups helping those who really were in dire straights. You might also direct your ire at the many businesses and churches who took payroll protection money that they didn;t need.

But as for retiring because of stimulus money, I don't think so. Even a couple who got all 3 payments woud have gotten maybe 2 months worth of a mediocre salary, hardly enough to trigger retirement.