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Author Topic: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa  (Read 1327343 times)

TechTalk

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #15100 on: July 14, 2022, 10:05:47 pm »

Wow.  Thanks for THAT link.

Carl Sagan:
I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time – when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers are in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.

Talk about prescient!

The link describes among other things, the modern appearance of the post-truth world.  Its arrival timing is instructive: circa 2016...

Thanks for posting the Carl Sagan quotation! I took notice of that as well.
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #15101 on: July 14, 2022, 10:05:56 pm »

Wow.  Thanks for THAT link.

Carl Sagan:
I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time – when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers are in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.

Talk about prescient!

The link describes among other things, the modern appearance of the post-truth world.  Its arrival timing is instructive: circa 2016

If there's one thing I loathe Trump for more than anything else, it's the literal destruction of the word truth.  Thanks to him, there is no more truth.  It's now a word without meaning. 

Others have better termed it "Truth Decay"

Speaking of truth, I read that Trump's "Truth Social" isn't doing too well. Imagine, a floundering Trump business, say it ain't so!
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #15102 on: July 15, 2022, 12:14:39 am »

Since the introduction of Facebook Groups, online forums have lost some of their audience particularly among younger users. The reasons are obvious. a) There are only so many hours in a day. b) There are billions of people who are logging into their Facebook accounts every day, multiple times per day, and they gravitate toward using what they already are familiar with and are currently using for their business and social contacts.

The explosion in the growth of social media platforms is not exactly news and their pull from other forms of online communication ain't exactly rocket science. It just doesn't fit Alan's preferred narrative.
Otrher photo sites seem to doing better.  They're keeping up or increaing their hits.  How do you explain that?

Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #15103 on: July 15, 2022, 12:20:58 am »

Yes, but he believes that everyone is as rigid, narrow, and biased as himself. That's his immediate and unchanging reaction to any criticism of his behavior which he views as a personal attack and immediately dismisses without any further consideration of the possible validity of the criticism.

He has no self-awareness and engages in no introspection to moderate his views or behavior. Basically, he's trapped in a very rigid circular thought process, yet believes he's a free and critical thinker.

There is only so much that anyone can do to try to get through the wall that protects that kind of inflexible and unreflecting self-image. He has said that there is no truth, only opinions, and his are just as valid as anyone else's. Welcome to the new post-truth world.
I didn't know you had a degree in psychoanalysis.

Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #15104 on: July 15, 2022, 12:22:51 am »

You made a suggestion about how the committee should be run. That "Congress could gather all the facts first" and "they could then have public hearings". I went to considerable time and effort to reply directly to what you wrote showing that a) There was bipartisan effort in the immediate aftermath of the insurrection to appoint a bipartisan commission of citizens, without any members of Congress, to investigate. That bipartisan effort was blocked by senate Republicans. b) I laid out in detail a timeline showing the committee, which followed the failed attempt at a bipartisan commission, has done exactly what you suggested they should do.

Staff and members investigated for months behind closed doors before they began public hearings to inform the public of what they have learned. By your comments, you appear to have been unaware of this, which is why I provided a concise detailed timeline.

Your "reply" doesn't directly address what I believe was a reasonably thoughtful and certainly detailed response to your assertion that Congress should "gather all the facts first" and "then have public hearings". Instead you deflect to a host of other topics like inflation, economics, polls, midterm elections, and toss in unsupported accusations of smears as an additional distraction.

Your "reply" is an insult to my time, energy, and patience. An insult because when someone makes the effort to respond directly to what you've written, you "reply" with whatever you happen to feel like talking about instead. Why do you do this? Do you think that you encourage open and honest dialogue this way?

You demand detailed facts; but when presented with facts, you blow them off with a litany of unrelated talking points. It's enough to make one open a bottle of French wine and celebrate Bastille Day. [Thank you Robert for the reminder]
I already responded to this in 15092.  Maybe you should reread it.

TechTalk

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #15105 on: July 15, 2022, 12:28:37 am »

I already responded to this in 15092.  Maybe you should reread it.

I did. I critiqued your non-response. Maybe you should reread it.
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TechTalk

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #15106 on: July 15, 2022, 12:30:08 am »

I didn't know you had a degree in psychoanalysis.

It's an observation which you can take or leave as you see fit.
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TechTalk

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #15107 on: July 15, 2022, 12:31:08 am »

Otrher photo sites seem to doing better.  They're keeping up or increaing their hits.  How do you explain that?

I explain your reply as a silly attempt to get attention and bait me into a debate over nothing and for which you offer no evidence other than how things "seem" to you. It's sadly ridiculous.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #15108 on: July 15, 2022, 08:54:04 am »

I explain your reply as a silly attempt to get attention and bait me into a debate over nothing and for which you offer no evidence other than how things "seem" to you. It's sadly ridiculous.
Calm down. No one is trying to bait you. We just have different opinions on this matter.  When Nikon fans debate Canon fans, who's right? 

Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #15109 on: July 15, 2022, 09:19:24 am »

So it looks like Democrats will do something right.  They may bury most of the trillion-dollar plan that would have increased inflation raising prices even higher.  The Democrats should be thanking Manchin for helping their party again right before the election.

Manchin torpedoes Democrats' hopes for passing sweeping climate action and tax hikes
(CNN)Sen. Joe Manchin on Thursday dealt a devastating blow to Democrats' hopes for sweeping legislative action this year, telling Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer and his staff "unequivocally" that he won't support the climate or tax provisions of a Democratic economic package, two sources familiar with the talks tell CNN.

The two had been negotiating for months, and Schumer, a New York Democrat, had made a number of concessions to pare back the climate provisions to appease Manchin, whose support is critical in an evenly decided Senate.
Manchin is open to letting Medicare negotiate prescription drugs prices and to extending enhanced Affordable Care Act subsidies for two years, one of the sources said, which suggests that's all Democrats are likely to get in the package.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/14/politics/joe-manchin-wont-support-climate-or-tax-provisions/index.html

Robert Roaldi

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #15110 on: July 15, 2022, 10:31:23 am »

So it looks like Democrats will do something right.  They may bury most of the trillion-dollar plan that would have increased inflation raising prices even higher.  The Democrats should be thanking Manchin for helping their party again right before the election.
...

But won't the country also miss out on the benefits of that plan? I mean, if saving money is the goal, then maybe the government should spend no money at all.

It's not only what stuff costs that matters, it's also the cost of not doing them that matters.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #15111 on: July 15, 2022, 10:54:10 am »

But won't the country also miss out on the benefits of that plan? I mean, if saving money is the goal, then maybe the government should spend no money at all.

It's not only what stuff costs that matters, it's also the cost of not doing them that matters.
But there's no end to spending with the government.  There's always another good plan.  Of course, there are benefits.  The problem is when you're paying for it with  additional taxes, borrowing and printing.  It's the public that eventually gets stuck with the bill as we are now with huge oil, food, rent, and other costs escalating. 

We ought to make salaries of congressmen and senators contingent on budget deficits.  For every billion in deficit, we reduce their salary ten dollars.  So this year with a trillion in deficit, their annual salaries would be reduced $10,000.  I bet we'd have more balance budgets. 

TechTalk

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #15112 on: July 15, 2022, 02:10:51 pm »

Calm down. No one is trying to bait you.

I'm very calm, but I am curious. When did you change your name to No One?
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PeterAit

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #15113 on: July 15, 2022, 04:15:11 pm »

Biden re-hired the Fed Chairman who was wrong about inflation calling it transient,  He should have fired him and hired someone who knew what he was doing.  Interest rates should have been raised a year ago and printing should have been stopped then as well.   They were printing $120 billion a month.

Second, Biden wants to spend another trillion dollars on top of the trillions he spent last year.  That's all adding to inflation because the Fed has to print more to cover deficit spending.  That's on Biden and the Democrats in Congress. Note that there's already a trillion dollars in deficit spending this year.

The fed chairman was hired by Trump in 2018. Biden rehired him in late May of this year--less than 2 months ago. How is Biden responsible for a Trump appointee not having perfect foresight? You are dealing from hindsight, which is always 20:20.

As for deficit spending, that is covered by borrowing. In other words, existing money, nothing is "printed." You do, I hope, realize that no money is actually printed, right? But it's true that the money supply has increased a lot (and I really do not understand the details of how this works) and that contributes to inflation, but inflation is world-wide and not just in the US. How is this Biden's doing?

And as I have mentioned before and you have ignored, how about cutting the deficit by funding the IRS so they can catch tax cheats, taxing corps and the wealthy at a reasonable rate, and instituting a wealth tax?
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #15114 on: July 16, 2022, 12:07:29 am »

The fed chairman was hired by Trump in 2018. Biden rehired him in late May of this year--less than 2 months ago. How is Biden responsible for a Trump appointee not having perfect foresight? You are dealing from hindsight, which is always 20:20.

As for deficit spending, that is covered by borrowing. In other words, existing money, nothing is "printed." You do, I hope, realize that no money is actually printed, right? But it's true that the money supply has increased a lot (and I really do not understand the details of how this works) and that contributes to inflation, but inflation is world-wide and not just in the US. How is this Biden's doing?


And as I have mentioned before and you have ignored, how about cutting the deficit by funding the IRS so they can catch tax cheats, taxing corps and the wealthy at a reasonable rate, and instituting a wealth tax?
Peter, If Powell had an eight-year term extending through Biden's term, then I'd agree with you.  But, Powell's appointment made by Trump ran out under Biden.  Biden rehired him. He praised and glorified him when he reappointed him.  He's responsible.   He's a Biden appointee and no longer a Trump appointee.  I said Powell should be replaced, why didn't Biden do that?  If I could figure out the lousy job he was doing predicting heavy inflation and higher prices, why didn't Biden's PhD economic advisors know that?  Powell was doing a lousy job.  He was printing and printing.  Of course, we were going to have inflation, and now a recession.  Biden should have hired someone else who knew what he was doing like Carter hired Volcker to Chair the Fed to fix the last inflation mess in the 1970s.  He raised interest rates to 20%. Frankly, we need another Volcker.   

The word printing is like a metaphor.  The way increasing currency was done in the old days was to print more.  Coins were debased.  I remember quarters and dimes used to be silver when I was younger.  Now they're some composite of crap metals. Roman emperors used to debase their gold coins by making them smaller or adding other base metals.  It's like bacon.  You buy a 12-ounce pound of bacon for the same amount of money.  It's missing of few pieces. The Fed doesn't actually print money although printing does occur to a certain extent for cash purchases.  But most trasnfer of wealth occur digitally through the checking system or other bank transferences, credits card, etc. When I bought my used car, the bank created the money in 1s and 0s magically in their account and sent it to the car dealer into their bank as 1s and 0s.  No cash exchanged hands.   Basically the Fed creates money by adding to accounts in banks.  They're inflating the money supply. So magically, the money is created.  It's a complicated process that I don't understand thoroughly either.  But the point is the economy gets additional money increasing the amount of currency. The more currency, the less each dollar or unit of currency is worth.  Since the value of each dollar is decreased, the value or cost of each product goes up.  So instead of paying a dollar for a soda, you have to pay $1.10.  The 10 cents is a hidden tax on us.

Since other Central Banks like the Fed are also inflating their currency, the EU, Japanese yen, etc, inflation and higher prices also affect their countries.  Additionally, because the US dollar is a reserve currency, our inflating the dollar, affects the whole world to a certain degree.  Additionally, oil is traded worldwide in dollars (Petrodollars), except currently between China and Russia who have a side deal.  Since America is inflating its dollar making its value less, you need more dollars to buy oil.  Other countries then need more dollars too to buy oil.  So they have similar increases in the cost of oil as we do. 

Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #15115 on: July 16, 2022, 12:14:00 am »

The fed chairman was hired by Trump in 2018. Biden rehired him in late May of this year--less than 2 months ago. How is Biden responsible for a Trump appointee not having perfect foresight? You are dealing from hindsight, which is always 20:20.

As for deficit spending, that is covered by borrowing. In other words, existing money, nothing is "printed." You do, I hope, realize that no money is actually printed, right? But it's true that the money supply has increased a lot (and I really do not understand the details of how this works) and that contributes to inflation, but inflation is world-wide and not just in the US. How is this Biden's doing?

And as I have mentioned before and you have ignored, how about cutting the deficit by funding the IRS so they can catch tax cheats, taxing corps and the wealthy at a reasonable rate, and instituting a wealth tax?
I thought I answered the part about funding the IRS.  I have no problem hiring agents to do more audits to catch thieves.  There were probably hundreds of billion stolen during Covid with the handouts to businesses.  I complained about that back then.  I saw it as a way owners were going to pocket those handouts rather than giving it to their employees as salaries as it was designed for.  The government said they were not going to do any audits.  Because the government doesn't care because it's not their money.  It's ours.

As far as tax rates, that's a debatable issue.  Half the country already pays no income taxes and a small percentage of people pay most of it.  If you overtax wealth, income, and earnings, there's less investment available to grow businesses and create new ones.  So there are fewer jobs and wealth for everyone. Taxes have been shown to decrease when you raise rates.

TechTalk

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #15116 on: July 16, 2022, 12:28:46 am »

I said Powell should be replaced, why didn't Biden do that?

Biden doesn't have any clue who you are nor have any need to hear you parrot a set of oversimplified talking points.
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TechTalk

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #15117 on: July 16, 2022, 12:42:16 am »

If I could figure out the lousy job he was doing predicting heavy inflation and higher prices, why didn't Biden's PhD economic advisors know that?

You're wondering how an unnamed group of PhD economists could ever match the insight generated by the depth and breadth of your knowledge of economics? Nothing to wonder about here, you're a very stable genius in your own mind.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #15118 on: July 16, 2022, 12:51:33 am »

You're wondering how an unnamed group of PhD economists could ever match the insight generated by the depth and breadth of your knowledge of economics? Nothing to wonder about here, you're a very stable genius in your own mind.
My point is since it was so obvious to me, a layman,  that we were printing too much and to a lot of others as well, why didn't the experts understand it as well?   The point is in any case, as rpesident, Boden is responsible. He hired the guy who blew it.

The other thing that Biden could have done is to push Congress to stop spending and adding to the deficit.  The Fed is often stuck printing to cover the government's deficits.  Biden is still pushing to deficit spending today although Manchin stopped him again.  So Biden's responsible for that as well

Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #15119 on: July 16, 2022, 12:57:34 am »

Why is it when Trump was president, he was reasonsible for everything?  Now that Biden is president, there are all sorts of excuses when things go bad: He didn't do it, it was the other guy,  he didn't hear about it, he was in a different room when it happened, the Vice President was handling it, he was taking a nap at the time, etc.  :)
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