Pages: 1 ... 654 655 [656] 657 658 ... 909   Go Down

Author Topic: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa  (Read 1289958 times)

Peter McLennan

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4692
Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #13100 on: December 30, 2021, 11:39:34 am »

They left because of the constant personal attacks and insults you and a few others here have continuously spouted. 
That's your entitled opinion.  My entitled opinion is that "the few others" were far more insulting than the occasional frustration-driven transgressions by those on the more LHS of the political spectrum.

Opinion-based flame wars are as old as the Internet. Besides, I thought you were in favour of free speech.

Quote
You and they are driving this website into the ground.


Yet, somehow, you continue your presence here, despite your apparent lack of photographic contributions.  You must be deriving some value.

Quote
Then, you and them will be the only ones around to insult each other.
You may or may not have noticed that "you and them" only insult repetitive idiocy and untruth.


Logged

digitaldog

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 21645
  • Andrew Rodney
    • http://www.digitaldog.net/
Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #13101 on: December 30, 2021, 11:44:33 am »

This should scare all Americans and non-Americans who are under the impression we here are a solid democratically sound system:
Quote
An Associated Press-NORC Center for Public Affairs Research poll showed that two-thirds of Republicans do not believe Democrat Joe Biden was legitimately elected as president.

The result, experts say, is that another baseless challenge to an election has become more likely, not less.

“It’s not clear that the Republican Party is willing to accept defeat anymore,” said Steven Levitsky, a Harvard political scientist and co-author of the book “How Democracies Die.” “The party itself has become an anti-democratic force.”
Balanced and factual :
Quote
American democracy has been flawed and manipulated by both parties since its inception. Millions of Americans — Black people, women, Native Americans and others — have been excluded from the process. Both Republicans and Democrats have written laws rigging the rules in their favor.

This time, experts argue, is different: Never in the country’s modern history has a a major party sought to turn the administration of elections into an explicitly partisan act.
Logged
http://www.digitaldog.net/
Author "Color Management for Photographers".

Peter McLennan

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4692
Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #13102 on: December 30, 2021, 11:49:13 am »

This should scare all Americans and non-Americans ...

I live in British Columbia, six kilometers from the border with ID.  IDAHO, FFS!  It is truly scary what's going on down there in the Good Ol' USA.
Logged

Peter McLennan

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4692
Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #13103 on: December 30, 2021, 11:51:14 am »

This may have been posted elsewhere here, but it deserves review.
"The Five Laws of Stupidity"  About 15 minutes.  Mostly audio.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3O9FFrLpinQ
Logged

Robert Roaldi

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5511
    • Robert's Photos
Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #13104 on: December 30, 2021, 12:56:31 pm »

This should scare all Americans and non-Americans who are under the impression we here are a solid democratically sound system:Balanced and factual :

Here's a podcast from Fresh Air about tactics being used to thwart American democracy, https://www.npr.org/2021/12/09/1062742421/the-possible-end-of-american-democracy-as-we-know-it. The interviewee paints a worrying picture.
Logged
--
Robert

Manoli

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2355
Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #13105 on: December 30, 2021, 12:59:12 pm »

They left because of the constant personal attacks and insults you and a few others here have continuously spouted.  You and they are driving this website into the ground.  Then, you and them will be the only ones around to insult each other.

Er, no ...
For what you have achieved, almost single-handedly, stand up and take a bow.
Logged

Manoli

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2355
Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #13106 on: December 30, 2021, 01:05:40 pm »

This should scare all Americans and non-Americans who are under the impression we here are a solid democratically sound system:Balanced and factual :

Something The Economist has touched on this week.

Quote
Our last cover of 2021 assesses the state of the Republican Party nearly a year after the Capitol riots and ahead of the mid-term elections in November.

Americans are anxious about the stability of their democracy.
Roughly 40% of politically active people say that members of the other tribe are evil;
60% believe they are a threat to the country;
Today, fully 70% of Republican voters still believe that the presidential election in 2020 was stolen;
America’s political sickness became terrifyingly apparent after the attack by Trump supporters on the Capitol.
[...]
Republican renewal, if it comes, will not be in the form of some Reaganite renaissance. Voters picking candidates for 2022 will be as many years distant from the Reagan revolution as Reagan was from FDR. And renewal is less likely from a conservative who stood up to Mr Trump than from someone who has enabled him by cowering in his slipstream, but who shares neither his reality-distorting powers nor his belief that the only legitimate result is the one where he wins.

Crucially, this person will be in charge of a party that still contains a large number of decent, patriotic voters who have been manipulated by a cynical group of leaders and propagandists into believing that, in saying the election was stolen, they are defending democracy. To presume that these people can be permanently treated as dupes would be a mistake.

Renewal is impossible for as long as Mr Trump remains the Republican Party’s leader. However, that is another way of saying that the direction of the party is tied up with the fate of one man. And that means it can change. ■




https://www.economist.com/leaders/2022/01/01/how-to-think-about-the-threat-to-american-democracy
« Last Edit: December 30, 2021, 01:24:38 pm by Manoli »
Logged

Peter McLennan

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4692
Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #13107 on: December 30, 2021, 06:17:19 pm »

Referenced in Robert's NPR podcast is this article in The Atlantic.  IMHO, it should be required reading for all those who participate in "Bear Pit" discussion.
Even as a foreigner, it seems to me that this is a more important topic of discussion than the price of hot dogs.


No paywall, but there is an attention cost.  It's long and detailed.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2022/01/january-6-insurrection-trump-coup-2024-election/620843/

Logged

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15850
    • Flicker photos
Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #13108 on: December 31, 2021, 06:56:34 am »

Something The Economist has touched on this week.




https://www.economist.com/leaders/2022/01/01/how-to-think-about-the-threat-to-american-democracy

After Trump won in 2016, lots of Democrats claimed he was an illegitimate president because he didn't win the popular vote.  Hillary Clinton claimed the election was stolen from her.  Democrats used Clinton's phony dossier and corrupt FBI and other government officials to claim he conspired with the Russians.  That kicked off investigations that went on and are still going on in an attempt to remove him from power then and diminish him politically for any future aspiration he may have.

 
How come you and the left-leaning The Economist weren't concerned about democracy and political comity then?  How come you guys didn't anticipate how those actions would kick off counterarguments and actions from those who that abuse was heaped upon?  What goes around comes around.

digitaldog

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 21645
  • Andrew Rodney
    • http://www.digitaldog.net/
Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #13109 on: December 31, 2021, 09:17:53 am »

After Trump won in 2016, lots of Democrats claimed he was an illegitimate president because he didn't win the popular vote.  Hillary Clinton claimed the election was stolen from her.  Democrats used Clinton's phony dossier and corrupt FBI and other government officials to claim he conspired with the Russians.  That kicked off investigations that went on and are still going on in an attempt to remove him from power then and diminish him politically for any future aspiration he may have.

 
How come you and the left-leaning The Economist weren't concerned about democracy and political comity then?  How come you guys didn't anticipate how those actions would kick off counterarguments and actions from those who that abuse was heaped upon?  What goes around comes around.

An incredible number of stupid questions.

You have this odd repetitive habit of asking questions of others, when your posting history and agenda show/prove, you have no desire or ability to accept any answer. No need to ask.
Logged
http://www.digitaldog.net/
Author "Color Management for Photographers".

Robert Roaldi

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5511
    • Robert's Photos
Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #13110 on: December 31, 2021, 10:45:21 am »

After Trump won in 2016, lots of Democrats claimed he was an illegitimate president because he didn't win the popular vote.  Hillary Clinton claimed the election was stolen from her.  Democrats used Clinton's phony dossier and corrupt FBI and other government officials to claim he conspired with the Russians.  That kicked off investigations that went on and are still going on in an attempt to remove him from power then and diminish him politically for any future aspiration he may have.

 
How come you and the left-leaning The Economist weren't concerned about democracy and political comity then?  How come you guys didn't anticipate how those actions would kick off counterarguments and actions from those who that abuse was heaped upon?  What goes around comes around.

Knock it off with the whining snowflake routine. It's not credible. Trumpistan has undertaken to make it difficult to vote and launched numerous nuisance lawsuits, the result being that a majority of polled Republicans think (or say they think) that Biden was not legitimately elected, something wholly at odds with all the facts. Your attempting to equate this with criticism of the electoral college is specious. Is this a talking point in the QAnon/Trumpistan guide book these days? Get a grip.


 
Logged
--
Robert

Peter McLennan

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4692
Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #13111 on: December 31, 2021, 12:52:44 pm »

From the above-recommended article in The Atlantic:

Trump and his party have convinced a dauntingly large number of Americans that the essential workings of democracy are corrupt, that made-up claims of fraud are true, that only cheating can thwart their victory at the polls, that tyranny has usurped their government, and that violence is a legitimate response.

You can't be more concise or more scary than that.





More:
For more than a year now, with tacit and explicit support from their party’s national leaders, state Republican operatives have been building an apparatus of election theft. Elected officials in Arizona, Texas, Georgia, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan, and other states have studied Donald Trump’s crusade to overturn the 2020 election. They have noted the points of failure and have taken concrete steps to avoid failure next time. Some of them have rewritten statutes to seize partisan control of decisions about which ballots to count and which to discard, which results to certify and which to reject. They are driving out or stripping power from election officials who refused to go along with the plot last November, aiming to replace them with exponents of the Big Lie. They are fine-tuning a legal argument that purports to allow state legislators to override the choice of the voters.

Logged

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15850
    • Flicker photos
Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #13112 on: December 31, 2021, 02:37:30 pm »

Knock it off with the whining snowflake routine. It's not credible. Trumpistan has undertaken to make it difficult to vote and launched numerous nuisance lawsuits, the result being that a majority of polled Republicans think (or say they think) that Biden was not legitimately elected, something wholly at odds with all the facts. Your attempting to equate this with criticism of the electoral college is specious. Is this a talking point in the QAnon/Trumpistan guide book these days? Get a grip.


 
Hillary tried to get Trump electors to change their vote.  That's not just a criticism of the electoral college.  Also, Russian collusion charges and corrupt FBI agents using a phony dossier are not innocent activities, nor was the Mueller investigation. They all were a concerted attempt from Democrats to destroy Trump's presidency and advance Democratic Party power.   It worked, frankly. 

Unfortunately, it pissed off a lot of people on the other side leading to Jan 6th which I don't agree with as to the way to object.  The best way is for Republicans to nominate effective nominees and take back power in Congress in 2022 and the presidency in 2024.  Butterfingers Biden and a left-wing and reaching Democratic Congress might make it easy to do. 

TechTalk

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3628
Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #13113 on: December 31, 2021, 02:38:28 pm »

After Trump won in 2016, lots of Democrats claimed he was an illegitimate president because he didn't win the popular vote.

False. Russian hacking and interference were blamed. That electoral votes determine presidential elections is a pretty well known fact.

Democrats used Clinton's phony dossier and corrupt FBI and other government officials to claim he conspired with the Russians. That kicked off investigations...

False. The investigation started before the FBI had any knowledge of the Steele dossier and focused on individual campaign members and their connections with Russia or their political operatives. During and after the campaign Trump, his family, and associates continually lied about their connections, contacts, cooperation, or business deals in Russia or with Russians.

How come you and the left-leaning The Economist weren't concerned about democracy and political comity then?

Because no one was threatening, coercing, or instructing officials and legislators to change the results of an election thru means outside of the legal system and violently invading the Capitol to stop the peaceful transfer of power. No one was claiming after the election that if the election result wasn't changed that you wouldn't have a country anymore and that citizens needed to fight to save their country. That came later with Trump and his brainwashed collaborators.
Logged
Respice, adspice, prospice - Look to the past, the present, the future

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15850
    • Flicker photos
Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #13114 on: December 31, 2021, 02:41:31 pm »

From the above-recommended article in The Atlantic:

Trump and his party have convinced a dauntingly large number of Americans that the essential workings of democracy are corrupt, that made-up claims of fraud are true, that only cheating can thwart their victory at the polls, that tyranny has usurped their government, and that violence is a legitimate response.

You can't be more concise or more scary than that.





More:
For more than a year now, with tacit and explicit support from their party’s national leaders, state Republican operatives have been building an apparatus of election theft. Elected officials in Arizona, Texas, Georgia, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan, and other states have studied Donald Trump’s crusade to overturn the 2020 election. They have noted the points of failure and have taken concrete steps to avoid failure next time. Some of them have rewritten statutes to seize partisan control of decisions about which ballots to count and which to discard, which results to certify and which to reject. They are driving out or stripping power from election officials who refused to go along with the plot last November, aiming to replace them with exponents of the Big Lie. They are fine-tuning a legal argument that purports to allow state legislators to override the choice of the voters.


Who's getting conspiratorial now?  :) 

TechTalk

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3628
Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #13115 on: December 31, 2021, 02:45:28 pm »

Also, Russian collusion charges and corrupt FBI agents using a phony dossier are not innocent activities, nor was the Mueller investigation. They all were a concerted attempt from Democrats to destroy Trump's presidency and advance Democratic Party power.   It worked, frankly. 

Unfortunately, it pissed off a lot of people on the other side leading to Jan 6th...

Repeating false narratives will not make them any more true.
Logged
Respice, adspice, prospice - Look to the past, the present, the future

TechTalk

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3628
Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #13116 on: December 31, 2021, 02:53:04 pm »

Who's getting conspiratorial now?

Trump and his collaborators in the Trumpublican party. It's a serious and dangerous threat to democracy in the United States.
Logged
Respice, adspice, prospice - Look to the past, the present, the future

digitaldog

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 21645
  • Andrew Rodney
    • http://www.digitaldog.net/
Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #13117 on: December 31, 2021, 03:06:14 pm »

Hillary tried to get Trump electors to change their vote. 
False. She did not.
Ten members of the Electoral College voted or attempted to vote for a candidate different from the ones to whom they were pledged, there is no evidence this is tied to "Hillary" and in the end, it didn't matter. Despite their stated intentions to defeat Donald Trump, these electors cast their votes for persons other than the candidate to whom they were pledged, Trump's opponent Hillary Clinton! 
And again, no one here is taking you seriously Alan. Because your comments don't deserve it: Indeed, repeating false narratives will not make them any more true.
Facts which you can't understand or accept: Hillary Clinton did say that it is time to abolish the Electoral College, when the former Democratic nominee sought to explain why she lost the 2016 election. She's got a point too, if you believe in democracy and that it should cast a winner who got nearly 3 million more actual votes than the 'winner' of the Electoral College.
Logged
http://www.digitaldog.net/
Author "Color Management for Photographers".

TechTalk

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3628
Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #13118 on: December 31, 2021, 03:11:35 pm »

As a result of the seven successfully cast faithless votes, the Democratic Party nominee, Hillary Clinton, lost five of her pledged electors while the Republican Party nominee and then president-elect, Donald Trump, lost two.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faithless_electors_in_the_2016_United_States_presidential_election
Logged
Respice, adspice, prospice - Look to the past, the present, the future

Robert Roaldi

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5511
    • Robert's Photos
Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #13119 on: December 31, 2021, 04:31:33 pm »

Hillary tried to get Trump electors to change their vote.  That's not just a criticism of the electoral college.  Also, Russian collusion charges and corrupt FBI agents using a phony dossier are not innocent activities, nor was the Mueller investigation. They all were a concerted attempt from Democrats to destroy Trump's presidency and advance Democratic Party power.   It worked, frankly. 

Unfortunately, it pissed off a lot of people on the other side leading to Jan 6th which I don't agree with as to the way to object.  The best way is for Republicans to nominate effective nominees and take back power in Congress in 2022 and the presidency in 2024.  Butterfingers Biden and a left-wing and reaching Democratic Congress might make it easy to do.

You didn't listen to that Fresh Air podcast, did you? You didn't read the article from The Atlantic, did you? But you're ok with repeating nonsense that was debunked months ago.

I don't follow, are you ok with Trump's trying to overturn electoral votes in states he lost? Do you think that's an ok thing to do? I've asked you this before. You don't actually believe in democracy and free votes, do you?
Logged
--
Robert
Pages: 1 ... 654 655 [656] 657 658 ... 909   Go Up