Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa

[Alan Klein]

AGAIN the discussion is not your bagels or about the current increase of beef prices, it's about the changed DISPARITY between the profits earned by producers and the profits earned by deregulated middlemen.

Please stop posting inane non-sequiturs and deflections.

Inflation is the expansion of the money supply.  If not matched by expanding productivity, prices are forced up.  It is not greedy businessmen or greedy unions.  They might be able to affect their industry but not the whole economy.  Government is the cause of inflation.  Politicians try to fool us and convince us it's others instead of acknowledging they are responsible.

[Alan Klein]

I live in the United States and find it pretty nice. I've found all of the other countries that I've traveled to quite nice as well.

None of that has anything to do with your false, misleading, and repeated claim that "the official rate ignores food, rent and some other essential items". There are multiple consumer price indexes which are tracked for different purposes as I pointed out the last time you made this claim.

Les is right.  If the government followed the same methods they used decades earlier, the rates of increase would be higher today.  They've change their methods so it makes the percentage increase seem less than they actually are.

[Robert Roaldi]

..  Regarding oil, when the government shuts down oil production or makes it harder to explore, that's not the free market.  Trump opened up exploration making domestic oil more abundant and cheaper.  It lowered our dependence on your Canadian oil which may explain why you're in favor of Biden over Trump.

There may be good reasons to stop exploration in some areas. Surely that's something that is the domain of government to decide.

Does it harm the free market because Amazon is not zoned to open up a warehouse at the Lincoln Memorial? Should oil companies be allowed to explore for oil underneath the Smithsonian? Or your house?

How do we know Trump didn't open up exploration because someone kicked him back some cash to do so? Maybe Trump's exploration decision might have been an environmental mistake.

The country is not the sum of its businesses.

[Peter McLennan]

Inflation is the expansion of the money supply.  If not matched by expanding productivity, prices are forced up.  It is not greedy businessmen or greedy unions.  They might be able to affect their industry but not the whole economy.  Government is the cause of inflation.  Politicians try to fool us and convince us it's others instead of acknowledging they are responsible.

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[Alan Klein]

There may be good reasons to stop exploration in some areas. Surely that's something that is the domain of government to decide.

Does it harm the free market because Amazon is not zoned to open up a warehouse at the Lincoln Memorial? Should oil companies be allowed to explore for oil underneath the Smithsonian? Or your house?

How do we know Trump didn't open up exploration because someone kicked him back some cash to do so? Maybe Trump's exploration decision might have been an environmental mistake.

The country is not the sum of its businesses.

Biden's shutting down the pipeline and reducing oil exploration was a political not an economic decision.  It's just stupid to buy foreign oil and send American dollars overseas when the oil can be easily drilled here and was.  Then there's the loss of American jobs, reduction of taxes to support government operations, profits lost to American stockholders, etc.

[digitaldog]

Biden's shutting down a pipeline and reducing climate change was a economic not an political decision.

"This is a landmark moment in the fight against the climate crisis," said Jared Margolis, a senior attorney at the Center for Biological Diversity. "We're hopeful that the Biden administration will continue to shift this country in the right direction by opposing fossil fuel projects."

[Robert Roaldi]

Bed sincerity yet therefore forfeited his certainty neglected questions. Pursuit chamber as elderly amongst on. Distant however warrant farther to of. My justice wishing prudent waiting in be. Comparison age not pianoforte increasing delightful now. Insipidity sufficient dispatched any reasonably led ask. Announcing if attachment resolution sentiments admiration me on diminution.

Now that's funny. Thanks.

[Robert Roaldi]

... It's just stupid to buy foreign oil and send American dollars overseas when the oil can be easily drilled here and was.  Then there's the loss of American jobs, reduction of taxes to support government operations, profits lost to American stockholders, etc.

Not necessarily, what if the overseas oil was cheaper to buy than drilling for it at home? If there are fewer oil field jobs in the US, then those workers need to move on to other careers, it's not the job of the federal government to find jobs for them, is it.

Why would profits to stockholders be lost, those companies should operate elsewhere where it is profitable. And if they can't compete, maybe they should disappear. Why should they be propped up, I thought you were against that.

[Alan Klein]

Not necessarily, what if the overseas oil was cheaper to buy than drilling for it at home? If there are fewer oil field jobs in the US, then those workers need to move on to other careers, it's not the job of the federal government to find jobs for them, is it.

Why would profits to stockholders be lost, those companies should operate elsewhere where it is profitable. And if they can't compete, maybe they should disappear. Why should they be propped up, I thought you were against that.

That's tortured logic.  First, the government breaks the legs of the domestic oil companies by shutting down some of their local production.  Then you argue why should they be propped up with a crutch? No one's asking for anyone to be propped up or find jobs for oil workers.  I'm just asking why the government shut them down in the first place?  It hurts American companies, American workers, the American economy, tax collection, profits for Americans, reliance on Middle East oil which opens us to getting involved in war over there. etc.  Why is the American government hurting American companies and helping foreign ones?  That's just stupid. Who's side is Biden on, anyway?

Also, if the company finds it's cheaper to drill there than here, how would the government know that.  It's not their business anyway.

[digitaldog]

That's tortured logic.  First, the government breaks the legs of the domestic oil companies by shutting down some of their local production.  Then you argue why should they be propped up with a crutch? No one's asking for anyone to be propped up or find jobs for oil workers.  I'm just asking why the government shut them down in the first place?  It hurts American companies, American workers, the American economy, tax collection, profits for Americans, reliance on Middle East oil which opens us to getting involved in war over there. etc.  Why is the American government hurting American companies and helping foreign ones?  That's just stupid. Who's side is Biden on, anyway?

Also, if the company finds it's cheaper to drill there than here, how would the government know that.  It's not their business anyway.

Another of many perfect examples of tortured logic misunderstandings.
And torturing readers here.

[TechTalk]

Les is right.  If the government followed the same methods they used decades earlier, the rates of increase would be higher today.  They've change their methods so it makes the percentage increase seem less than they actually are.

Once again, here's a topic that was recently the theme for one of your circular repetitive merry-go-round rides. If someone wants to consume the same stale old baloney that you're trying to sell again, I'm happy to let them.

[digitaldog]

If someone wants to consume the same stale old baloney that you're trying to sell again, I'm happy to let them.

I often wonder who, (besides perhaps Alans wife), takes him seriously and consumes all those stale baloney sandwichs on Wonder Bread he prepares each day. 

[Alan Klein]

Once again, here's a topic that was recently the theme for one of your circular repetitive merry-go-round rides. If someone wants to consume the same stale old baloney that you're trying to sell again, I'm happy to let them.

Attack the person, not the idea.  I'm disappointed in you.

[Alan Klein]

AGAIN the discussion is not your bagels or about the current increase of beef prices, it's about the changed DISPARITY between the profits earned by producers and the profits earned by deregulated middlemen.

Please stop posting inane non-sequiturs and deflections.

Larry Summers, Treasury secretary under Democratic President Clinton, agrees with me that these things are not causing inflation.

Biden-backed antitrust crackdown could worsen inflation, Larry Summers warns
The Biden administration’s push to crack down on antitrust violations could cause the ongoing inflation crisis to worsen rather than improve, economist Larry Summers warned this week.

Summers, the Treasury secretary during the Clinton administration, said proposed antitrust actions were “more likely to raise than lower prices.”

President Biden has called for scrutiny of top meat industry firms and US oil companies, arguing that a lack of competition has contributed to artificially high consumer prices during the COVID-19 pandemic.

“The emerging claim that antitrust can combat inflation reflects ‘science denial,’” Summers wrote on Twitter. “There are many areas like transitory inflation where serious economists differ. Antitrust as an anti-inflation strategy is not one of them.”
https://nypost.com/2021/12/28/biden-backed-antitrust-crackdown-could-worsen-inflation/

[TechTalk]

Attack the person, not the idea.  I'm disappointed in you.

I dismissed the idea as the "same stale old baloney" and noted that you were just recycling the same topic yet again for another round of circular repetitive argument.

I'm not here to please you. I couldn't care less what or who disappoints you. I'm just bored with the same topics being recycled time and again in order for you to trot out and repeat the same shallow talking points over and over and over. It's utterly mind-numbing. Being in a coma would be just as enlightening.

[TechTalk]

The Atlantic, a liberal magazine, seems to agree with me, not you.

I've noticed that you often like to point to a source as agreeing with you or disagreeing with someone else. I suppose that it's reassuring.

Larry Summers, Treasury secretary under Democratic President Clinton, agrees with me

How nice for you.

[digitaldog]

Attack the person, not the idea. 

Actually he and so many others here have successfully attacked your “ideas” for well over a year.
We can't help it you are such a glutton for well deserved punishment.
You can and should stop; but you cannot and will not.

[Peter McLennan]

Larry Summers, Treasury secretary under Democratic President Clinton, agrees with me that these things are not causing inflation.

Biden-backed antitrust crackdown could worsen inflation, Larry Summers warns
The Biden administration’s push to crack down on antitrust violations could cause the ongoing inflation crisis to worsen rather than improve, economist Larry Summers warned this week.

Summers, the Treasury secretary during the Clinton administration, said proposed antitrust actions were “more likely to raise than lower prices.”

President Biden has called for scrutiny of top meat industry firms and US oil companies, arguing that a lack of competition has contributed to artificially high consumer prices during the COVID-19 pandemic.

“The emerging claim that antitrust can combat inflation reflects ‘science denial,’” Summers wrote on Twitter. “There are many areas like transitory inflation where serious economists differ. Antitrust as an anti-inflation strategy is not one of them.”
https://nypost.com/2021/12/28/biden-backed-antitrust-crackdown-could-worsen-inflation/

Alan, my point about ranchers and meatpackers has nothing to do with inflation.  It has to do with unfair earnings disparity resulting from deregulation.

Why do you keep attempting to change the subject?

[digitaldog]

Why do you keep attempting to change the subject?

In a word: deflection. As a defensive tactic.
https://www.restorationstherapy.com/deflection-a-defensive-tactic/

Children try to deflect blame when they are in trouble for negative actions by pointing out a different negative action that a sibling did.

He needs an adult hobby that is more constructive than intellectual self mutilation.

[Alan Klein]

Alan, my point about ranchers and meatpackers has nothing to do with inflation.  It has to do with unfair earnings disparity resulting from deregulation.

Why do you keep attempting to change the subject?

Peter, your post was in reply to my post about inflation.  So I'm assuming the disparity your referencing is causing higher prices in the meat industry.  Summer's point is that the higher prices are caused by inflation and that the president shouldn't punish the industry with attempted anti-competitive lawsuits against them as he's doing.  It's only going to make things worse. The president is also claiming, falsely, similar conspiracies in the oil industry. 

The government always plays this game regardless of who's president.  When prices go up because of the deficit spending and the Fed printing, they try to blame industry and labor for the inflation so the public doesn't blame them.