Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa

[digitaldog]

The photography market is fairly free: cameras, film, development, print shops, wedding photographers, photojournalists, etc. 

Do tell us your actual experience as a professional photographer, what professional photography groups (ASMP, APA) you were a member. That should be 'enlightening'.

[Robert Roaldi]

Since every country has taxes and regulations, there is no totally free market, but rather more or less free.  The photography market is fairly free: cameras, film, development, print shops, wedding photographers, photojournalists, etc.  The point is that there's no centrally planned photography market.  LAbor, buyers, sellers, and manufacturers determine what's going on in the industry. The EV industry where the government provides rebates is less free because rebates affect heavy buying patterns imposed by government action of giveaways.   This creates winners and losers in the auto industry determined by government bureaucracy more-so rather than like buyers and sellers in the photo industry.

You keep repeating the same sound bites. You keep bringing up government support of the EV industry but ignore all the examples of government aid for oil exploration and development. I love the way you just keep ignoring info you don't like. I have to admire the audacity.

But your first line "Since every country has taxes and regulations, there is no totally free market ..." is priceless. Did you have a straight face when you typed that, because you gave me a belly laugh. Do you think it's some "left-wing" worldwide conspiracy that pretty much all countries operate this way? Maybe it's the Freemasons? Or the Catholics? Or maybe Canadians?

One thing you do that's also entertaining is scream blue murder at anything the federal government does that you perceive it's interference in the economy, as if the "economy" takes precedence over all other considerations and that the government has no place in it. But if state governments hand over money to Amazon or the Governor's cousin or whatever, then you seem to think that's a legitimate use of government funding. You could at least try to be consistent. The distinction you make seems phoney to me, more than a little contrived.

[Peter McLennan]

Since every country has taxes and regulations, there is no totally free market, but rather more or less free.

So why do you keep harping about it being bad for government to choose winners and losers?  It's just one more example of markets being manipulated for the benefit of one party or another.  ALL markets are manipulated.  You just might not be aware of it.

Ever try to get a Nikon purchased outside America serviced by Nikon USA?  Good luck with that. Nikon (or Canon, or Sony or whatever) protects its interest by manipulating the market. They hold the cards, not you. 

In fact EVERYONE ELSE holds the cards.

So please stop harping about this silly issue.

[Alan Klein]

The photo industry has no effects outside of the buyers and sellers in that industry. In contrast the auto industry has a huge effect on the future of the climate and of the entire planet and is therefore a perfectly legitimate place for government influence. And the gov't is not choosing "winners and losers" among companies but among technologies, and any company can build an EV and take advantage of the incentives. Those that already have EVs to market will be rewarded for their foresight, as it has always been in business.

When government provide social incentives, that's affecting the markets and selecting winning and losing technologies.  Years ago oil companies received a tax reduction to explore for more oil by receiving what was called an "oil depletion allowance" on their taxes.  The concept was because oil eventually runs out in a particular well, the oil company paid lower taxes to incentivize them to explore for new oil.  It was considered a social benefit.  So social benefits come and go. Regardless, government interference affects the free market. 

[Alan Klein]

You keep repeating the same sound bites. You keep bringing up government support of the EV industry but ignore all the examples of government aid for oil exploration and development. I love the way you just keep ignoring info you don't like. I have to admire the audacity.

But your first line "Since every country has taxes and regulations, there is no totally free market ..." is priceless. Did you have a straight face when you typed that, because you gave me a belly laugh. Do you think it's some "left-wing" worldwide conspiracy that pretty much all countries operate this way? Maybe it's the Freemasons? Or the Catholics? Or maybe Canadians?

One thing you do that's also entertaining is scream blue murder at anything the federal government does that you perceive it's interference in the economy, as if the "economy" takes precedence over all other considerations and that the government has no place in it. But if state governments hand over money to Amazon or the Governor's cousin or whatever, then you seem to think that's a legitimate use of government funding. You could at least try to be consistent. The distinction you make seems phoney to me, more than a little contrived.

I don't keep ignoring the benefits oil companies get.  I explained the oil depletion allowance in my last post and have mentioned it before.  These are all central planning of government that interferes in free markets.  However, the freer a market, the better it is for the economy and for people in general.  Government planning tends to misallocate resources because the signals it receives aren't based on what buyers and sellers are doing but rather what politicians do.  What they do is affected by votes and financing they receive to campaign, both of which have nothing to do with markets.  When Republican politicians in corn-growing states favor higher-cost corn ethanol in gasoline, they claim it's a social benefit by keeping pollution down.  But it also raises the cost of meat and food in general as corn is a feed grain.  So social policies aside, good or bad, government involvement affects markets and the economy.  The more involved it is, the less free markets work. 

[Alan Klein]

So why do you keep harping about it being bad for government to choose winners and losers?  It's just one more example of markets being manipulated for the benefit of one party or another.  ALL markets are manipulated.  You just might not be aware of it.

Ever try to get a Nikon purchased outside America serviced by Nikon USA?  Good luck with that. Nikon (or Canon, or Sony or whatever) protects its interest by manipulating the market. They hold the cards, not you. 

In fact EVERYONE ELSE holds the cards.

So please stop harping about this silly issue.

How can you compare the effect of the central government on markets between let's say America and Cuba or Venezuela?  It's night and day.  Of course, the Fed is killing the American economy so we might wind up like Venezuela pretty soon.  You're arguing for a central government that socializes so you see no problem.  People who favor capitalism see huge problems with socialism.  Just look at Cuba and Venezuela. 

Regarding what Nikon does is part of the free market.  That's what competition is all about. If you don't like their methods, buy Canon or someone else's cameras.  However,  when the government gets involved, everyone is affected.  Where do you go?  Well, many people buy foreign products which might be more competitive. 

So you see, government interference really affects domestic production and accounts for why so many companies move their production offshore.  Our own government creates problems by making us less competitive.  Isn't that what Biden's going to do with higher corporate taxes.  They'll be less investment in the US and less sales of American goods.  He's hurting America.

[digitaldog]

Alan is fine with this of course:

Trump Announces New Tariffs that May Affect the Price of Cameras and Lenses
https://petapixel.com/2019/08/02/trump-announces-new-tariffs-that-may-affect-the-price-of-cameras-and-lenses/

While the political reasons for these tariffs are beyond the purview of a photography publication, the potential effects on photo gear are not. As we reported last month, Sony may well be selling its new 35mm f/1.8 lens for significantly more in the US because this particular lens is made in China. Sony already warned that additional tariffs would mean higher Playstation prices for US consumers, and there’s no reason to believe that the same would not apply to Chinese-made imaging products since these will be hit with the import tax as well.

The hammer will take over the floor now....🤮

[Robert Roaldi]

How can you compare the effect of the central government on markets between let's say America and Cuba or Venezuela?  It's night and day.  Of course, the Fed is killing the American economy so we might wind up like Venezuela pretty soon.  You're arguing for a central government that socializes so you see no problem.  People who favor capitalism see huge problems with socialism.  Just look at Cuba and Venezuela. 

Regarding what Nikon does is part of the free market.  That's what competition is all about. If you don't like their methods, buy Canon or someone else's cameras.  However,  when the government gets involved, everyone is affected.  Where do you go?  Well, many people buy foreign products which might be more competitive. 

So you see, government interference really affects domestic production and accounts for why so many companies move their production offshore.  Our own government creates problems by making us less competitive.  Isn't that what Biden's going to do with higher corporate taxes.  They'll be less investment in the US and less sales of American goods.  He's hurting America.

When have you been seriously threatened by central government planning in your life in the US?  Seriously.

[Robert Roaldi]

Did I miss something? Does Trump have a connection with the Moonies?

[PeterAit]

When government provide social incentives, that's affecting the markets and selecting winning and losing technologies.  Years ago oil companies received a tax reduction to explore for more oil by receiving what was called an "oil depletion allowance" on their taxes.  The concept was because oil eventually runs out in a particular well, the oil company paid lower taxes to incentivize them to explore for new oil.  It was considered a social benefit.  So social benefits come and go. Regardless, government interference affects the free market.

It's *SUPPOSED* to affect the free market. Remember, it was a really free market that brought us slavery, child labor, 60 hour weeks, unsafe working conditions, toxic and ineffective "medicines," endless pollution, contaminated food, the great depression, the housing crisis...the list is endless. No thanks.

[Alan Klein]

When have you been seriously threatened by central government planning in your life in the US?  Seriously.

The Fed is probably the greatest threat to the economy in general and me and my wife personally.  Inflation if it continues as it did in the 1970s will wipe out half our retirement savings and half our pensions due to the devaluation of the dollar. I expect the government to increase taxes and lower benefits on Social Security and Medicare creating a double whammy. 

[digitaldog]

The Fed is probably the greatest threat to the economy in general and me and my wife personally. 

Key word (yet another but at least admitted assumption) bolded above.

[Alan Klein]

It's *SUPPOSED* to affect the free market. Remember, it was a really free market that brought us slavery, child labor, 60 hour weeks, unsafe working conditions, toxic and ineffective "medicines," endless pollution, contaminated food, the great depression, the housing crisis...the list is endless. No thanks.

As I said in my last post, the greatest threat is government deficit spending and the Fed. My pensions and cash savings and your salary and cash savings won't be worth squat pretty soon.  We won't be able to afford food pretty soon - contaminated or not. 

[digitaldog]

As I said in my last post, the greatest threat is government deficit spending and the Fed. My pensions and cash savings and your salary and cash savings won't be worth squat pretty soon.  We won't be able to afford food pretty soon - contaminated or not.

A GoFundMe for your food will get nearly zero traction here. 
As for the rest of us, only speaking for myself, something that you can not fathom, you are once again wrong.

[digitaldog]

More examples of natural selection:

An anti-vaccine activist and QAnon advocate whose demands to be treated with deworming drug ivermectin sparked a right-wing harassment campaign against the Chicago hospital where she was being treated has died from complications due to Covid-19, the hospital confirmed to Forbes on Monday.

Veronica Wolski, an Illinois woman who gained fame in QAnon circles for her demonstrations on bridges, died “early this morning,” Olga Solares, a spokesperson for AMITA Resurrection Hospital, said in an email to Forbes. 


[James Clark]

As I said in my last post, the greatest threat is government deficit spending and the Fed. My pensions and cash savings and your salary and cash savings won't be worth squat pretty soon.  We won't be able to afford food pretty soon - contaminated or not.

Why would anyone that thinks inflation is going to go haywire have significant cash savings right now?

[digitaldog]

Why would anyone that thinks inflation is going to go haywire have significant cash savings right now?

You are requesting that someone actually think prior to posting.
Might as well request world peace 

[Alan Klein]

Why would anyone that thinks inflation is going to go haywire have significant cash savings right now?

Older people tend to keep more cash and bonds as investments as they don't have time to recoup should other more risky markets like stock and real estate collapse.  I'm 76.  My younger wife is frankly more daring than me. 

[digitaldog]

Older people tend to keep more cash and bonds as investments as they don't have time to recoup should other more risky markets like stock and real estate collapse.

"To generalize is to be an idiot. To particularize is the alone distinction of merit. General knowledge are those knowledge that idiots possess".  -William Blake

[LesPalenik]

Older people tend to keep more cash and bonds as investments as they don't have time to recoup should other more risky markets like stock and real estate collapse.  I'm 76.  My younger wife is frankly more daring than me. 

If they die before their time comes, it doesn't really matter if their assets are in cash or in stocks. Since they tend to lead a rather dull life, I'd say - put the money into stocks for more thrill.