Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa

[Robert Roaldi]

I remember when Trump descended the escalator to announce he was running for president. The was a big crowd clapping and cheering. Turns out the crowd was comprised of out of work actors he paid $50 for them to show up and cheer him on. Maybe Biden needs to hire some out of work actors and pay them $50 dollars to stand behind him in white lab coats when he is giving his COVID updates. Would that make you feel better?

Nothing makes Alan feel better.

[faberryman]

Nothing makes Alan feel better.

The idea that Biden is making up his COVID response without consulting any medical experts because there aren't any guys in white lab coats standing around behind him when he makes COVID remarks is so asinine it beggars belief.

[Robert Roaldi]

The idea that Biden is making up his COVID response without consulting any medical experts because there aren't any guys in white lab coats standing around behind him when he makes COVID remarks is so asinine it beggars belief.

Yup. He's ventured past the first standard deviation often enough so now he may be exploring further out there.

[faberryman]

There's a double standard, as usual, from the press.  Apparently, Biden is an expert in his own right.

We have told you a hundred times to stop watching CNN. Fox, Newsmax, and OAN are the places to find what you want to hear. There is nothing better than a couple of hours of Fox and Friends in the morning to get your day started off right.

[faberryman]

What happens when poster A ignores poster B and poster B ignores poster A?

Even if you put someone on ignore you can still see what they post. You just click the Show Post button.

[digitaldog]

Yup, you're quite wrong.

I stand corrected, good to know.

The challenge now is to restore it to its former status - and to that end a ‘Moderator’ will be needed - Andrew Rodney perhaps ?

That will never and should never happen! 

[digitaldog]

You;ve just joined the rest of the insulters.  Enough already.  I just added you to my ignore list.

IOW, welcome to our club where facts Alan doesn't wish to read, let alone believe takes place:

[MattBurt]

No, he didn’t. The tariffs ended up hurting America more than China and the Chinese recorded a record trade surplus by the end of Trimp’s administration.

I’ve posted this before, but still you insist ...


https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=136697.msg1205641#msg1205641

It like someone thinking they have been getting robbed so they decide to get a gun and "do something about it'. So they shoot their own foot.
So he do do something. It just didn't help and in fact made things worse. But Alan is correct that it was a thing.

[Alan Klein]

It like someone thinking they have been getting robbed so they decide to get a gun and "do something about it'. So they shoot their own foot.
So he do do something. It just didn't help and in fact made things worse. But Alan is correct that it was a thing.

What's Biden going to do? That's the question now.  If he drops the tariffs, China will laugh and know they can roll him.   It will make dealing with them on other issues like the South China Sea and Taiwan even more difficult.  They will become more brazen, adding to tensions.  They will press Australia, Japan, and our other friends there.  The fact is tariffs were hurting China.  Our tough stand makes them think twice about doing stupid things. 

[PeterAit]

You;ve just joined the rest of the insulters.  Enough already.  I just added you to my ignore list.

This group is regressing to kindergarten. "I will ignore you, neener neener." "Oh yeah, I will ignore you twice, double neener." Sheesh!

[MattBurt]

What's Biden going to do? That's the question now.  If he drops the tariffs, China will laugh and know they can roll him.   It will make dealing with them on other issues like the South China Sea and Taiwan even more difficult.  They will become more brazen, adding to tensions.  They will press Australia, Japan, and our other friends there.  The fact is tariffs were hurting China.  Our tough stand makes them think twice about doing stupid things.

It's a good question. It's certainly time for some change based on the mess we are in.
In my opinion realigning ourselves with our allies should help us have some collective power to balance against the power of China and their new regional free trade partners. Also not trying to make everything so adversarial (with everyone) would help. When all the world leaders except psycho dictators hate our president, it makes any kind of agreement harder to reach. So lets bring our friends back in and lets return to diplomacy and sound policy based on some consensus of trusted economists.
The fact that the tariffs hurt China isn't necessarily a victory when they hurt us too. The tit for tat escalation in this trade war appears not to have benefitted anyone. If we launched missiles at China that would probably hurt them too but I don't see that helping anyone or anything. I'd prefer a non-weaponized approach.

[Frans Waterlander]

a ‘Moderator’ will be needed - Andrew Rodney perhaps ?

Yeah, that'll take care of any traffic on this site!

[faberryman]

What's Biden going to do? That's the question now.  If he drops the tariffs, China will laugh and know they can roll him.   It will make dealing with them on other issues like the South China Sea and Taiwan even more difficult.  They will become more brazen, adding to tensions.  They will press Australia, Japan, and our other friends there.  The fact is tariffs were hurting China.  Our tough stand makes them think twice about doing stupid things.

And why pray tell should we be worried about China pressing Australia, Japan, and our other friends there. What does China "will press" them even mean? You are being vague. Why should we get mixed up in it. Let them work it out among themselves. At least that was the logic you espoused for not helping the Kurds.

And tell me what "stupid things" China did prior to Trump's "tough stand", by which I take it you mean imposing tariffs, and what "stupid things" do you anticipate China will do if Biden backs off on tariffs? You are being a little vague there too.

[digitaldog]

Yeah, that'll take care of any traffic on this site!

Traffic from one non photographer troll, indeed. 

[faberryman]

For some unknown reason I decided to read a Fox News article on how Senator Rand Paul was explaining on Fox News Sunday why it is unconstitutional to try Trump for incitement to insurrection because he is no longer president. Old Rand was blowing smoke and Chris Wallace fact checked him a couple of good ones and I stopped reading because it dawned on me that an ophthalmologist was trying to explain constitutional law to a journalist. Next thing you know Fox News is going to have some constitutional law scholars on to discuss macular degeneration. What is the world coming to?

[digitaldog]

The 'concept' if I can be so kind, that this move is unconstitutional would make perfect sense if you suspend all rational thought.
First, there's that bit in the Constitution that says that the Senate, after voting to convict an impeached president, can consider “disqualification to hold and enjoy any office of honor, trust or profit under the United States.”
Now why would that be an option if it were unconstitutional to try Trump for incitement to insurrection because he is no longer president? So Trump could have shot someone on 5th ave on his last day in office and get away with it? That too make perfect sense if you suspend all rational thought.

Then as outlined here:
"In 1876, President Ulysses S. Grant’s Secretary of War, W.W. Belknap, was discovered to have been taking bribes from traders he’d licensed for exclusive trading business at U.S. military outposts in the Western Territories. Belknap appears to have successfully resigned his post prior to the House vote to impeach. Nevertheless, after the House voted, the Senate held a trial. Although the senators debated whether they had the power to try an official who had resigned, the trial proceeded.
Both sides in this debate have cogent points. But the weight of historical precedents, and the plain language of the Constitution, allow the Senate to constitutionally try former President Trump".

Paul knows the facts, this unconstitutional excuse is all some republicans have and it's weak, really weak. But Trump will be acquitted. 

[Alan Klein]

It's a good question. It's certainly time for some change based on the mess we are in.
In my opinion realigning ourselves with our allies should help us have some collective power to balance against the power of China and their new regional free trade partners. Also not trying to make everything so adversarial (with everyone) would help. When all the world leaders except psycho dictators hate our president, it makes any kind of agreement harder to reach. So lets bring our friends back in and lets return to diplomacy and sound policy based on some consensus of trusted economists.
The fact that the tariffs hurt China isn't necessarily a victory when they hurt us too. The tit for tat escalation in this trade war appears not to have benefitted anyone. If we launched missiles at China that would probably hurt them too but I don't see that helping anyone or anything. I'd prefer a non-weaponized approach.

Presidents before Trump tried those methods.  China ignored them and went about stealing intellectual property and adding tariffs to American goods sold there.  They haven't budged much since we put tariffs on.  Why would you expect any cooperation if we dropped them? 

Xi assured Obama the islands in the South China Sea would remain for civilian use only. A promise immediately broken by China. Their claim to them even as civilian property was rejected by the International Court and ignored by China.  Working with our partners didn't work before.  They could care less about America's IP and tariffs on our goods sold there.  They have their own problems with China.  Trump understood that.  That's why he went it alone with China, Iran, Paris, North Korea, etc.  He understood that our friends are summertime warriors. If we didn't do it for ourselves, no one else would make much of a difference. However, his applying heavy navy forces in the Sea there helped pull many of our friends back.  After Obama abandoned them by pulling pour the navy, they started to drift to china.  Trump strengthening our military presence there bucked them up again and we're closer to Japan, Taiwan and our other friends more today than in years.  If Biden weakens American resolve, these countries will drift away from us again towards China. So far, he has already sent a carrier tasks force through the Sea which shows me that he intends to keep up Trump's policy even if he calls it something else for domestic political reasons.

If Biden goes back to how previous presidents did it, he's going to get burned as well. Sending the carrier tells me he learned about Chinese deceitfulness and untrustworthiness from his experience for 8 years working with Obama.  As VP, he was assigned to be the lead guy with Xi.  The North Koreans are probably more reliable than China.  And that's saying something.

[Alan Klein]

Speaking of our friends in NATO, they will immediately reduce the defense expenditures now that Biden is showing he'll back off from some of Trump's hard-nosed positions especially the cancellation of relocating thousands of American troops from Germany to other European NATO countries, who were meeting their financial defence commitments, unlike Germany and others.  So now, Biden has pissed off those NATO countries who were better supporting America and NATO.  So your argument NATO leaders didn't like Trump is as true as there are NATO countries that don't like Biden.  So now there's no incentive for these other NATO countries to keep supporting defense as they have.  Biden turned on them. 

[faberryman]

War is not won in a battle or two.

I gather you have been reading Sun Tzu lately.

He was the first president who did something.

You are confusing activity with accomplishment.

True, the Chinese have not changed their ways.

So I guess that means Trump doing something was a failure.

But Trump did more than previous presidents did other than their complaints.  He acted.

So some activity resulting in failure..

He tried.

I agree that Trump is entitled to a Certificate of Participation.

So what is Biden going to do?

I don't recall him outlining his China policy yet.

If he drops Trump's methods entirely, the Chinese will just double down.

Trump's "methods" were imposing tariffs and imposing tariffs. Could you clarify what you mean by "double down"?

Just like his changes on illegals, ICE, and immigration are now going to create a flood of illegals coming to America.

Luckily you are no longer in the job market so you should be okay.

He's now doing the same with Iran and will embolden them.

Could you clarify what you mean by "doing the same"? Could you clarify what you mean by "embolden" and specify the probable consequences of Iran being emboldened.

[faberryman]

Presidents before Trump tried those methods.  China ignored them and went about stealing intellectual property and adding tariffs to American goods sold there.  They haven't budged much since we put tariffs on.  Why would you expect any cooperation if we dropped them?

So applying tariffs didn't work, and removing tariffs won't work either. Sounds like focusing on tariffs isn't the answer. That's probably why Trump's China policy, such that it was, was an abject failure.

Xi assured Obama the islands in the South China Sea would remain for civilian use only. A promise immediately broken by China. Their claim to them even as civilian property was rejected by the International Court and ignored by China. Working with our partners didn't work before.  They could care less about America's IP and tariffs on our goods sold there.  They have their own problems with China.  Trump understood that.  That's why he went it alone with China, Iran, Paris, North Korea, etc.  He understood that our friends are summertime warriors. If we didn't do it for ourselves, no one else would make much of a difference.

Who cares about the islands in the South China Sea?

So if working with our partners didn't work, and going it alone didn't work, what do you suggest?

However, his applying heavy navy forces in the Sea there helped pull many of our friends back.  After Obama abandoned them by pulling pour the navy, they started to drift to china.  Trump strengthening our military presence there bucked them up again and we're closer to Japan, Taiwan and our other friends more today than in years.  If Biden weakens American resolve, these countries will drift away from us again towards China. So far, he has already sent a carrier tasks force through the Sea which shows me that he intends to keep up Trump's policy even if he calls it something else for domestic political reasons.

Like I said, who cares about the islands in the South China Sea?

If Biden goes back to how previous presidents did it, he's going to get burned as well. Sending the carrier tells me he learned about Chinese deceitfulness and untrustworthiness from his experience for 8 years working with Obama.  As VP, he was assigned to be the lead guy with Xi.  The North Koreans are probably more reliable than China.  And that's saying something.

You've really got an obsession for the islands in the South China Sea. Do you really think that China is going to give them up? I would ask the same thing about Russia and Crimea.