Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa

[John Camp]

Interesting story about "Trump mind-meld" in the NYT today, about a former Navy SEAL. I found the story really interesting. I subscribe, so this might be behind a paywall, but I think you can usually get in.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/26/us/navy-seal-adam-newbold-capitol.html

[Alan Klein]

It seems Biden is trying to take credit for Operation Warp speed by claiming he's ordering a lot of new doses.  I don't know the exact breakout because he's not giving it.  But much of the additional doses had already been ordered or placed on order to be released.  All Biden is doing is releasing the previous orders Trump set up.  Where's the media on calling him on this?  Well, of course, they won't mention it.

Here's just one example.

December
December 11, 2020: HHS announced an agreement with Moderna to acquire an additional 100 million doses of their COVID-19 vaccine candidate, bringing the total doses of mRNA-1273 owned by the federal government to 200 million. Under the agreement, Moderna will leverage its U.S.-based manufacturing capacity to fill, finish and ship vials of mRNA-1273 as the bulk material is produced. The additional doses ordered today provide for continuous delivery through the end of June 2021. This federal funding brings the total provided to Moderna for this vaccine, including vaccine development, clinical trials and manufacturing, to $4.1 billion. The government also has the option to acquire up to an additional 300 million doses of the Moderna vaccine.

https://www.hhs.gov/coronavirus/explaining-operation-warp-speed/index.html

[jeremyrh]

So only Sony had to change their design.  If they went the other way, 5 manufacturers would have to change their design and manufacturing to Sony's.  Is that right?  So they voted 5-1 and Sony lost.  Seems fair to me.

But the consumer ended up with no choice and an inferior system - THAT's the point.

In any case, it's all beside the point.  The issue was that the government wasn't involved in picking winners and losers.  That would have been worse.

Because ?

[William Walker]

It seems Biden is trying to take credit for Operation Warp speed by claiming he's ordering a lot of new doses.  I don't know the exact breakout because he's not giving it.  But much of the additional doses had already been ordered or placed on order to be released.  All Biden is doing is releasing the previous orders Trump set up.  Where's the media on calling him on this?  Well, of course, they won't mention it.

Here's just one example.

December
December 11, 2020: HHS announced an agreement with Moderna to acquire an additional 100 million doses of their COVID-19 vaccine candidate, bringing the total doses of mRNA-1273 owned by the federal government to 200 million. Under the agreement, Moderna will leverage its U.S.-based manufacturing capacity to fill, finish and ship vials of mRNA-1273 as the bulk material is produced. The additional doses ordered today provide for continuous delivery through the end of June 2021. This federal funding brings the total provided to Moderna for this vaccine, including vaccine development, clinical trials and manufacturing, to $4.1 billion. The government also has the option to acquire up to an additional 300 million doses of the Moderna vaccine.

https://www.hhs.gov/coronavirus/explaining-operation-warp-speed/index.html

Biden's 200 million now takes the total up to 600 million... what is your point?

[faberryman]

Because ?

Because Alan is arguing a tautology.

Look, there are a lot of advantages to free markets. The problem is they don't really exist except for things like pet rocks and Beanie Babies. There are also advantages to governmental regulation, but sometimes governments make mistakes. Arguing one or the other is best only demonstrates that you have learned the advantages of one system or the other, but not the disadvantages. You are simply displaying your ignorance to the world. Notice I didn't say stupidity, I said ignorance, although if the ignorance is willful, then it is stupidity.  You have to use the right tool for the right job. As I mentioned before, I think marketing is the real problem. I don't think you can have a free market with one party to the transaction practicing psyops on the other party. Do you really think that Tom Sawyer letting his friends whitewash the fence was a free market transaction? I'll leave you with this question that is sort of related to psyops:  If the free market is so great, how do you explain buyer's remorse.

And I also would like to point out that choosing between a free market and governmental regulation is black and white thinking, which as we all know is a logical fallacy. Black and white thinking is for people who either can't or don't want to think. For those people, they have to have an either/or choice. More than two options overwhelms their intellect, and their head explodes.

[Alan Klein]

But the consumer ended up with no choice and an inferior system - THAT's the point.

Because ?

This is private business to be worked out by private parties.  Should the government get involved and dictate to Sony Nikon Canon etc the standards for cameras?  That would be a fiasco.  If the manufacturers can't be sure what's best and try different ways, how would bureaucrats who don't have a clue about the business decide?  Next thing that would happen is Sony would contribute to politicians for favoring their design and now you'd have political corruption.  Standards are developed privately in most industries sometimes with government involvement especially if it affects public services like airwaves.  Don't we have ISO standards that define stops, aperture, and shutter speeds?   Let the free market work.  It works best.

ISO= The International Organization for Standardization is an international standard-setting body composed of representatives from various national standards organizations. Founded on 23 February 1947, the organization promotes worldwide proprietary, industrial, and commercial standards.

Previously we used ASA = American Standards Association.

[jeremyrh]

This is private business to be worked out by private parties. 

Because ?

You claimed that the free market would arrive at the best solution.  I gave you a concrete example of that not being the case.  The rest is just waffle and diversion.

[Alan Klein]

Biden's 200 million now takes the total up to 600 million... what is your point?

It would be nice for the media to tell the public how the Trump administration preplanned these purchases and paid in advance for many of them rather than remaining quiet and giving all the credit to Biden.  But we know they're in the tank for Biden and anti-Trump.  So the public gets a distorted view of what's really happening. This has been going on for four years.  Now it will continue as they protect Biden and the democrats who they favor.  This is why the public's respect for the media is so low.  It's so distorted. 

[Alan Klein]

Biden claimed that Trump, left him nothing the vaccine kitty.  That isn't true yet the media doesn't call him on it. What lie is Biden up too?

[Alan Klein]

Lies Biden tells.  I think I'm going to keep a list as they did on Trump.

Biden Lie #1: Biden said he wanted to unify the country but immediately selected staff and Secretaries based on race and gender separating Americans into identity groups competing with each other..
Lie #2: Biden claimed Trump left no vaccines yet the former administration had it all set out for him to activate in Operation Warp Speed.  That way, had Trump won, he too would be able to release an order for more vaccines.  Why would Trump leave the cupboards empty for himself?

[faberryman]

Next thing that would happen is Sony would contribute to politicians for favoring their design and now you'd have political corruption.

Right, manufacturers and their industry associations never make contributions to politicians. Thank goodness we dodged that bullet.

[faberryman]

Biden claimed that Trump, left him nothing the vaccine kitty.  That isn't true yet the media doesn't call him on it. What lie is Biden up too?

I think Biden is buying more vaccine because we are all out. I seem to remember a few days ago you said NJ was only getting 100,000 doses a week from the federal government, and, at that rate, it would take 40 weeks to inoculate the citizens of New Jersey. I think you asked the question whether that was anyway to run a ship. If you are going to contradict yourself, at least wait until people have forgotten what you said before before changing your position.

[faberryman]

Why would Trump leave the cupboards empty for himself?

The cupboard wouldn't have been bare on January 20, 2021 if Trump hadn't quit doing his job after November 3, 2020. He was so engrossed in his massive voter fraud conspiracy theories that he didn't have time to order more vaccine. So we ran out. Don't tell me you actually believe that nonsense about him making many calls and having many meetings. That's was just Kayleigh McEnany being ditsy. He was making calls to Georgia to get the officials to conjure up 11,700 fraudulent votes, and having meetings with Michael Flynn and the MyPillow Guy about declaring martial law and re-running the elections. It is doubtful that any of his boot lickers mentioned to him that ordering more vaccine might be a good idea, but it doesn't really matter. His answer would have been "Not my problem" while placing a call to the Krakettes to find out if they had gotten around to fixing their screw-up when they tried to appeal those lawsuits to the Supreme Court.

[faberryman]

Lies Biden tells.  I think I'm going to keep a list as they did on Trump.

They are just exaggerations and aspirational statements. The problem is that you take Biden literally. Besides, he is just a regular guy from Scranton. The people knew what they were getting when they elected him. There was a whole bunch of other nonsense you would trot out whenever someone would say Trump was lying, but these couple of comments will do.

[faberryman]

This is private business to be worked out by private parties.

I am trying to figure out who the private parties are. Are they the manufacturers who colluded to create a monopoly, or the manufacturers and the buyers who only had one choice?

[jeremyrh]

Biden Lie #1: Biden said he wanted to unify the country but immediately selected staff and Secretaries based on race and gender separating Americans into identity groups competing with each other..

That's only a lie if you start from the position that it's just middle-aged white men who count. I can see how a middle-aged white man might think that, but if you had a bit more self-awareness you'd have a different view.

[Alan Klein]

That's only a lie if you start from the position that it's just middle-aged white men who count. I can see how a middle-aged white man might think that, but if you had a bit more self-awareness you'd have a different view.

I didn't say he should only pick middle-age white men.  He should pick qualified people regardless of their race or gender or age.  By picking based on race and gender, he's perpetuating discrimination and separating Americans into adversarial groups. What's fair about separating people by class as they do in Great Britain?  That's identity politics and doesn't unite people.

[Chris Kern]

Biden's 200 million now takes the total up to 600 million... what is your point?

It would be nice for the media to tell the public how the Trump administration preplanned these purchases and paid in advance for many of them . . .

The additional 200M doses announced yesterday represent new federal contracts.  The 600M-dose total will permit the vaccination of everyone in the United States who is eligible under the current clinical trial protocols (all adults except for those with certain specified medical restrictions), with a small buffer that can be used to begin the vaccination of young people when it has been proven safe to do so.

[faberryman]

It would be nice for the media to tell the public how the Trump administration preplanned these purchases and paid in advance for many of them rather than remaining quiet and giving all the credit to Biden.

You are reading and watching the wrong news media. You should be reading, for example, Breitbart and Infowars, and watching, for example, Fox News, Newsmax, and OAN. In addition, there are lots of other conservative news outlets where you can hear Trump praised all day, every day. An example of this strategy would be if you wished the media would praise the Lord more often, you might want to tune into religious channels and read religious periodicals. Instead, it's like you are watching ESPN and complaining there are no romantic comedies.

I wish I had a psychology degree. Then maybe I could figure out why it is so important to you that Trump receive praise. I have been reading about it and have come to some conclusions, but I will keep them to myself. As an act of introspection, you might ask yourself the same question. If you really gave it some thought, it might be enlightening.

[Peter McLennan]

The invisible hand of the free market.

Precisely. 

For the last time, Alan, THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A FREE MARKET.