Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa

[LesPalenik]

And yet this country (USA) is realizing it was a mistake. 

Let's see, which state has the highest surge?  CA!  Which state has the strictest lockdown?  CA!

Which state is doing the best?  FL!  Which state has the least strict lockdown?  FL! 

Fact is, you cant change human nature.  People will meet up, regardless if in public or away from prying eyes.  If you take away outdoor activity, such as CA has done, and where C19 does not spread, then they will just go inside, where C19 spreads easily. 

The lockdowns are counter productive and causing the increase in spread, at least in areas still warm enough to allow for outdoor activities. 

I know this a far cry from Canada; perhaps you should had the good nature to be born somewhere without extreme cold. 

What kind of data are you using, Joe?
Looking at the number of deaths/1M, California is 39th with 769 deaths, and Florida is 25th with 1074 deaths/1M (using Worldometer stats for total deaths. The stats for last week may look differently).
The northeastern states (NJ, NY, CT, MA, RI) are the worst per capita.
 

[TechTalk]

Well, the Clintons collected 100s of millions from foreign governments and companies into their so-called Clinton Foundation.

So-called Clinton Foundation? Maybe you're thinking of the fraudulent Donald J. Trump Foundation which admitted to the IRS that it had engaged in self-dealing and had transferred "income or assets to a disqualified persons". Trump's "charity" was dissolved by court order which also ordered Trump to pay a $2 million fine for misusing the Foundation for his business and political purposes.

Then there was that time in 2013 when the Trump Foundation illegally donated $25,000 to Pam Bondi's election campaign while as Florida Attorney General she was reviewing fraud allegations against Trump University. Bondi ended the investigation without bringing charges—just coincidence certainly. Of course, Trump University was another scam that cost $25 million to settle in a class action suit to reimburse those that signed up, plus $1 million fine for running an unlicensed university.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/2019/11/08/trump-foundation-saga-troubled-charity-ends-2-million-judgment

On the other hand, the Clinton Foundation is a genuine charitable foundation with programs that have helped millions around the world. It receives the highest grades from charity rating organizations for financial transparency and accountability. You can see some of the work it has done here...

https://theclintonfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/about the clinton foundation.pdf

Or here...

https://www.clintonfoundation.org/about/frequently-asked-questions

Are you sure charity fraud is what you want to use as a comparison between Donald and Hillary?

https://www.charitynavigator.org/Donald J. Trump Foundation

https://www.charitynavigator.org/Clinton Foundation

[JoeKitchen]

What kind of data are you using, Joe?
Looking at the number of deaths/1M, California is 39th with 769 deaths, and Florida is 25th with 1074 deaths/1M (using Worldometer stats for total deaths. The stats for last week may look differently).
The northeastern states (NJ, NY, CT, MA, RI) are the worst per capita.

My God, technicalities!    I'll get back to you tomorrow, perhaps, maybe, but now watching "The Last of the Mohicans" and Daniel Michael Blake Day-Lewis is too hard to ignore with such great acting. 

[TechTalk]

Bill was paid millions additionally for his short speeches by these same groups.

I'm shocked! Shocked! To learn that famous political office holders make money from paid speeches when they leave office. Has this ever happened before? Next you'll be telling me they also make money from selling books about their lives and experiences!

I may need to borrow Lindsey Graham's fainting couch! Move over Lindsey!

[JoeKitchen]

No thanks needed. People that love their country and want to see what's best for it can, do, and should have very different opinions that they can argue over vigorously. That's what makes a democracy.

But when it's under attack, we're not very far apart at all.

I should have replied to this earlier, but did not know how to. 

I am glad you feel this way, especially with the disagree vigorously part.  It is ... I'd be happy to have a drink with you as well. 

[TechTalk]

I should have replied to this earlier, but did not know how to. 

I am glad you feel this way, especially with the disagree vigorously part.  It is ... I'd be happy to have a drink with you as well.

Enjoy the mead. It is interesting. I only had it once and that was on a boat trip in Stockholm some years ago. I have no idea what the alcohol content was because they never stopped pouring! I did have some trouble getting off the boat some hours later. Man, the Swede's I was with could drink!

[TechTalk]

What evidence do you have that Trump sold his position to make money?

I never said that he did—but thanks for trying to make it seem like I did. Trump would probably steal a nickel from a blind man's tin cup—but only for fun. On the other hand, Trump would sell his soul to feed his narcissistic ego; or threaten a Georgia Secretary of State to steal votes for him; or extort the leader of a foreign country to announce an investigation of an opponent; or take the side of a dictator in Russia against U.S. intelligence agencies; or tell lies about an election and turn Americans against each other when he know's he's about to lose or has lost. There's really nothing that he wouldn't do to feed his ego and parasitic narcissism tapeworm.

[jeremyrh]

What kind of data are you using, Joe?
Looking at the number of deaths/1M, California is 39th with 769 deaths, and Florida is 25th with 1074 deaths/1M (using Worldometer stats for total deaths. The stats for last week may look differently).
The northeastern states (NJ, NY, CT, MA, RI) are the worst per capita.

Yeah - the answer to your first question is "cherrypicked ones".  Florida has more deaths per capita than Calfornia but fewer cases. Other "lockdown-light" states such as SD have done much, much worse.  Comparing one state against another is not straightforward because they have different demographics and population densities, and because the states are not isolated from each other, but looking at timing of lockdown it's clear that in general they reduce cases, but this is not convenient for people with a different agenda.

More comparisons in this article:
https://www.tampabay.com/news/health/2020/12/03/is-florida-doing-better-on-coronavirus-than-locked-down-states-politifact/

[Robert Roaldi]

Who is Josh Hawley you ask, https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/11/opinion/josh-hawley-religion-democracy.html.

Fundamentalists of any stripe simply do not believe in freedom.

[PeterAit]

Just in case there are any dimbulbs here still blaming the Capitol riot on Antifa or saying it was peaceful protesters :

https://apnews.com/article/us-capitol-trump-supporters-1806ea8dc15a2c04f2a68acd6b55cace

[kers]

Lots of companies now part with Trump and some of his loyal Republican friends.
Deutsche Bank is among them. Some sponsors want their money back.
A golf championship will not take place on Trumps property...

How different would it be if he was elected? He would still be all that same person, but also the President of the US

https://www.euronews.com/2021/01/11/golf-championship-pulled-from-trump-hotel-over-capitol-hill-riot
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/jan/12/deutsche-bank-severs-ties-with-donald-trump
https://www.businessinsider.nl/hallmark-asks-republican-senators-josh-hawley-and-roger-marshall-to-refund-its-political-donations-after-they-voted-against-bidens-certification/

[Robert Roaldi]

Lots of companies now part with Trump and some of his loyal Republican friends.
Deutsche Bank is among them. Some sponsors want their money back.
A golf championship will not take place on Trumps property...

How different would it be if he was elected? He would still be all that same person, but also the President of the US

https://www.euronews.com/2021/01/11/golf-championship-pulled-from-trump-hotel-over-capitol-hill-riot
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/jan/12/deutsche-bank-severs-ties-with-donald-trump
https://www.businessinsider.nl/hallmark-asks-republican-senators-josh-hawley-and-roger-marshall-to-refund-its-political-donations-after-they-voted-against-bidens-certification/

The loss of financial support might seal Trump's fate. Political parties can put up with a lot but if the money spigot dries up, that's a big problem.

[MattBurt]

Just in case there are any dimbulbs here still blaming the Capitol riot on Antifa or saying it was peaceful protesters :

https://apnews.com/article/us-capitol-trump-supporters-1806ea8dc15a2c04f2a68acd6b55cace

But I got it from a very reliable source that it was the Boogieman Antifa!
The fact that my reliable source is reliably wrong is not of consequence! These are his strongly held beliefs and he said it repeatedly and with conviction!
That's all the proof I need.

[Jim Pascoe]

Just in case there are any dimbulbs here still blaming the Capitol riot on Antifa or saying it was peaceful protesters :

https://apnews.com/article/us-capitol-trump-supporters-1806ea8dc15a2c04f2a68acd6b55cace

Thank you for that Peter - very interesting.

Jim

[Alan Klein]

What kind of data are you using, Joe?
Looking at the number of deaths/1M, California is 39th with 769 deaths, and Florida is 25th with 1074 deaths/1M (using Worldometer stats for total deaths. The stats for last week may look differently).
The northeastern states (NJ, NY, CT, MA, RI) are the worst per capita.
 

The Democrat governor of CA, Newsom, is doing such a bad job, there's a discussion about recalling him.  (firing him) Meanwhile, Schwarzenegger is criticizing Trump and other Republicans at the same time.  So is Arnold getting ready for another run as California Republican governor? 

Meanwhile, as Joe mentioned, NY Democrat Governor says we can't keep New York's economy closed.  Well, he always believed that. Exactly what Trump preached from the beginning.  But Cuomo would't say it until after the election.  So he allowed NY's economy to collapse just to make Trump look bad.  That's on top of his killing thousands of old New Yorkers by his insane Covid policies.  What phoneys.

[JoeKitchen]

Yeah - the answer to your first question is "cherrypicked ones".  Florida has more deaths per capita than Calfornia but fewer cases. Other "lockdown-light" states such as SD have done much, much worse.  Comparing one state against another is not straightforward because they have different demographics and population densities, and because the states are not isolated from each other, but looking at timing of lockdown it's clear that in general they reduce cases, but this is not convenient for people with a different agenda.

More comparisons in this article:
https://www.tampabay.com/news/health/2020/12/03/is-florida-doing-better-on-coronavirus-than-locked-down-states-politifact/

We all have our cherry pickers, you and me. 

But I tell you what, next time I have to travel for work, I'll let you know how much I am charging and if you wire me that amount plus 500% (for damages to my reputation by cancelling on short notice), I'll stay home. 

FYI, I tested negative, for the third time in one week.  Perhaps I already caught given how "reckless" I have been in the last few months by going outside and doing my work. 

[John Camp]

The loss of financial support might seal Trump's fate. Political parties can put up with a lot but if the money spigot dries up, that's a big problem.

He supposedly got $250 million from his end-of-term "stop the steal" grift from his low-income supporters. So there's that.

[LesPalenik]

In 2008, Trump wrote in the foreword of “Trump University Branding 101”: “The truth is, everything you say and do is important. Actions Matter.”

After egging on a mob that rioted inside the U.S. Capitol last week, the brand that’s at the heart of President Donald Trump’s career and fortune is in crisis. He is being shunned by some of the political donors who fuel him, the tech companies that amplify his voice, the banks handling his finances, the American golf industry that brings business to his clubs, and even the Canadian company behind his online stores.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/trump-sparks-crisis-business-empire-024319166.html

[jeremyrh]

FYI, I tested negative, for the third time in one week.  Perhaps I already caught given how "reckless" I have been in the last few months by going outside and doing my work.

Perhaps you did. And perhaps you passed it on to others.  But who cares, it's all about you.

[Alan Klein]

Perhaps you did. And perhaps you passed it on to others.  But who cares, it's all about you.

Now that the election is over, even Democrat Governor of NY Cuomo said we have to open the economy and that we can't wait until the vaccine takes effect.  The fact is NY is broke, the country is broke, and many people are broke.  Asking people to ignore feeding their families is just a holier than thou viewpoint.  Are you working?  Is your income continuing?