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Author Topic: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa  (Read 1294545 times)

Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #4320 on: December 16, 2020, 06:12:58 pm »

This regulation was always stupid and easy to get around.  A shower head only needed follow this if it was a minimum height in the shower, which was pretty high.  Many rich homes I photographed got around this by placing two or three additional shower heads just below this level.  These additional heads could even be hooked to a flexible neck to be position above the shower taker.  Hence the commercials that we started seeing right after this with several shower heads going off at once; those showers actually existed. 

Insofar as removing that flow calibrator, this is not necessarily a solution.  In order to pass code and have a CO issued, things like this will be checked.  Contractors cant do it for the homeowner, and so homeowners, with lots of money to burn, just have them install more heads. 
Could you clarify that?

LesPalenik

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #4321 on: December 16, 2020, 06:50:13 pm »

Glad to see Trump is concentrating on the important aspects of our country after 300,000 dead from the pandemic, this make America Great again act just in:Well sure, if you're as full of crap as this guy, having the toilet flush 10 gallons at the very least is necessary.  ;D

Because of the wide spread of Covid-19, many homeowners in USA lost their homes and are now living in their cars and vans. To clean up, they use a water spray bottle, sponge or a tiny solar camp shower. They saved a significant amount of water. In addition, they saved many toilet flashes by using a decomposing porta potti or a bucket with saw dust or cat litter.
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Craig Lamson

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #4322 on: December 16, 2020, 06:51:01 pm »

Anything's possible, I guess.

I don’t think we will need to guess for long. 
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LesPalenik

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #4323 on: December 16, 2020, 06:56:52 pm »

Vaccine...bah humbug.

Many hospitals are now running out of ICU beds and healthcare personnel. No humbug, we are talking about real infections, real patients and real nurses.
 
Quote
More than 2,000 nurses and other licensed professionals at three Southern California HCA hospitals are poised to strike Christmas Eve through Jan. 3, citing staffing and safety concerns amid contentious negotiations for a new contract.

The hospitals plan to limit their full scope of services to care for patients with the highest needs. "This strike will put additional stress on hospitals throughout Southern California, which is already at bed and ICU capacities due to the current surge," an HCA spokesperson said in an email statement.

https://www.healthcaredive.com/news/nurses-a3-california-hca-hospitals-set-for-holiday-strike-icu-capacity/592236/
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JoeKitchen

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #4324 on: December 16, 2020, 07:12:46 pm »

Many hospitals are now running out of ICU beds and healthcare personnel. No humbug, we are talking about real infections, real patients and real nurses.
 
https://www.healthcaredive.com/news/nurses-a3-california-hca-hospitals-set-for-holiday-strike-icu-capacity/592236/

This is why I will be getting the vaccine ... as soon as we know it is safe and will not cause me to become anymore autistic then I already am.   ;)

Hey, if you dont think something is wrong with a person who can spit out the loft angles of all 14 clubs in his bag, then I dont know what to tell you other then we dont need him getting any worse. 
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digitaldog

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #4325 on: December 16, 2020, 07:30:05 pm »

Many hospitals are now running out of ICU beds and healthcare personnel. No humbug, we are talking about real infections, real patients and real nurses.
https://www.healthcaredive.com/news/nurses-a3-california-hca-hospitals-set-for-holiday-strike-icu-capacity/592236/
Many don't care. Not one bit. They are happy to admit this too. When they or someone the care for, ends up in that situation, they might.
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TechTalk

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #4326 on: December 16, 2020, 07:55:41 pm »

It’s fraud.

No, actually it's confusion among various people over executive branch orders and guidance and interpreting legislative branch language and intent, which is why there is a third branch, the judicial, to examine the issues and render final declarations and judgements. Fraud requires a criminal intent to deliberately deceive, which is why you will also not find the word "fraud" anywhere in the Court opinion. The word confusion does, however appear in their opinion:

Responding to the confusion that these two statements caused, the Wisconsin Elections Commission ("WEC") issued proposed guidance on when voters may declare themselves indefinitely confined. The WEC's proposed guidance, issued on March 27, 2020, reads as follows: Designation of indefinitely confined status is for each individual voter to make based upon their current circumstance. It does not require permanent or total inability to travel outside of the residence. The designation is appropriate for electors who are indefinitely confined because of age, physical illness or infirmity or are disabled for an indefinite period.

Please note that the Court found that age is a legally qualifying claim for an indefinite confinement application for absentee voting as is explicitly stated in the statutory language. The Court also found that each individual elector makes "his or her own determination as to whether the elector is indefinitely confined". As the Court stated in its conclusion:

CONCLUSION
   
We conclude Wis. Stat. § 6.86(2)(a) requires that (1) each individual elector make his or her own determination as to whether the elector is indefinitely confined; (2) an elector's determination may be based only upon age, physical illness or infirmity; and (3) an elector is indefinitely confined for his or her own age, physical illness or infirmity, not those of another person.


Now, of the 3,297,352 votes cast in Wisconsin for the November 3rd presidential election, 2.6 million were by absentee ballot. Of those, about 220,000 were indefinitely confined absentee ballots. The percentage of Wisconsin's population over age 60 is approximately 21%—over 1.2 million residents. It would be reasonable to expect that a large number of seniors would determine—as is their right as confirmed by both statute and the Court—that they are indefinitely confined in 2020 and legally requested an indefinitely confined absentee ballot due to their age. Wisconsin already had over 71,000 indefinitely confined absentee voters in 2019, due to age, physical illness, infirmity or disability—so the number increased by about 149,000 during a pandemic to which seniors are especially vulnerable and have been advised by medical professionals to take every precaution to limit possible exposure. Wisconsin mailed absentee ballot request forms to voters at the beginning of September and voters clearly preferred voting that way—especially seniors.

If you have any evidence that any voters in Wisconsin requested an indefinitely confined absentee ballot fraudulently, let the Trump lawyers know as they did not allege that even one voter actually did so. The Wisconsin Supreme Court performed a normal court function in settling a dispute over statutory language and intent. They did not make any assertions or assumptions regarding fraud, though you are free to continue to do so despite a lack of any evidence.
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James Clark

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #4327 on: December 16, 2020, 07:59:35 pm »

No, actually it's confusion among various people over executive branch orders and guidance and interpreting legislative branch language and intent, which is why there is a third branch, the judicial, to examine the issues and render final declarations and judgements. Fraud requires a criminal intent to deliberately deceive, which is why you will also not find the word "fraud" anywhere in the Court opinion. The word confusion does, however appear in their opinion:

Responding to the confusion that these two statements caused, the Wisconsin Elections Commission ("WEC") issued proposed guidance on when voters may declare themselves indefinitely confined. The WEC's proposed guidance, issued on March 27, 2020, reads as follows: Designation of indefinitely confined status is for each individual voter to make based upon their current circumstance. It does not require permanent or total inability to travel outside of the residence. The designation is appropriate for electors who are indefinitely confined because of age, physical illness or infirmity or are disabled for an indefinite period.

Please note that the Court found that age is a legally qualifying claim for an indefinite confinement application for absentee voting as is explicitly stated in the statutory language. The Court also found that each individual elector makes "his or her own determination as to whether the elector is indefinitely confined". As the Court stated in its conclusion:

CONCLUSION
   
We conclude Wis. Stat. § 6.86(2)(a) requires that (1) each individual elector make his or her own determination as to whether the elector is indefinitely confined; (2) an elector's determination may be based only upon age, physical illness or infirmity; and (3) an elector is indefinitely confined for his or her own age, physical illness or infirmity, not those of another person.


Now, of the 3,297,352 votes cast in Wisconsin for the November 3rd presidential election, 2.6 million were by absentee ballot. Of those, about 220,000 were indefinitely confined absentee ballots. The percentage of Wisconsin's population over age 60 is approximately 21%—over 1.2 million residents. It would be reasonable to expect that a large number of seniors would determine—as is their right as confirmed by both statute and the Court—that they are indefinitely confined in 2020 and legally requested an indefinitely confined absentee ballot due to their age. Wisconsin already had over 71,000 indefinitely confined absentee voters in 2019, due to age, physical illness, infirmity or disability—so the number increased by about 149,000 during a pandemic to which seniors are especially vulnerable and have been advised by medical professionals to take every precaution to limit possible exposure. Wisconsin mailed absentee ballot request forms to voters at the beginning of September and voters clearly preferred voting that way—especially seniors.

If you have any evidence that any voters in Wisconsin requested an indefinitely confined absentee ballot fraudulently, let the Trump lawyers know as they did not allege that even one voter actually did so. The Wisconsin Supreme Court performed a normal court function in settling a dispute over statutory language and intent. They did not make any assertions or assumptions regarding fraud, though you are free to continue to do so despite a lack of any evidence.

Where do you get the energy?  :)
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TechTalk

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #4328 on: December 16, 2020, 08:03:36 pm »

Where do you get the energy?  :)

It isn't energy so much as keen interest. Otherwise, I wouldn't bother.

I've had a keen interest in photography since I was a teenager which grew into a career. I've had a love of history since I was a child, which grew into an interest in politics, which expanded into an interest in law—as those three topics often intersect.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2020, 08:39:11 pm by TechTalk »
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kers

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #4329 on: December 16, 2020, 08:36:34 pm »

In the mean time the US hits a new record: 246.000 new infected and 3470+ deaths in one day...



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chez

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #4330 on: December 16, 2020, 08:37:50 pm »

In the mean time the US hits a new record: 246.000 new infected and 3470+ deaths in one day...


And crickets from Chetos. What a guy.
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Craig Lamson

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #4331 on: December 16, 2020, 08:40:40 pm »

No, actually it's confusion among various people over executive branch orders and guidance and interpreting legislative branch language and intent, which is why there is a third branch, the judicial, to examine the issues and render final declarations and judgements. Fraud requires a criminal intent to deliberately deceive, which is why you will also not find the word "fraud" anywhere in the Court opinion. The word confusion does, however appear in their opinion:

Responding to the confusion that these two statements caused, the Wisconsin Elections Commission ("WEC") issued proposed guidance on when voters may declare themselves indefinitely confined. The WEC's proposed guidance, issued on March 27, 2020, reads as follows: Designation of indefinitely confined status is for each individual voter to make based upon their current circumstance. It does not require permanent or total inability to travel outside of the residence. The designation is appropriate for electors who are indefinitely confined because of age, physical illness or infirmity or are disabled for an indefinite period.

Please note that the Court found that age is a legally qualifying claim for an indefinite confinement application for absentee voting as is explicitly stated in the statutory language. The Court also found that each individual elector makes "his or her own determination as to whether the elector is indefinitely confined". As the Court stated in its conclusion:

CONCLUSION
   
We conclude Wis. Stat. § 6.86(2)(a) requires that (1) each individual elector make his or her own determination as to whether the elector is indefinitely confined; (2) an elector's determination may be based only upon age, physical illness or infirmity; and (3) an elector is indefinitely confined for his or her own age, physical illness or infirmity, not those of another person.


Now, of the 3,297,352 votes cast in Wisconsin for the November 3rd presidential election, 2.6 million were by absentee ballot. Of those, about 220,000 were indefinitely confined absentee ballots. The percentage of Wisconsin's population over age 60 is approximately 21%—over 1.2 million residents. It would be reasonable to expect that a large number of seniors would determine—as is their right as confirmed by both statute and the Court—that they are indefinitely confined in 2020 and legally requested an indefinitely confined absentee ballot due to their age. Wisconsin already had over 71,000 indefinitely confined absentee voters in 2019, due to age, physical illness, infirmity or disability—so the number increased by about 149,000 during a pandemic to which seniors are especially vulnerable and have been advised by medical professionals to take every precaution to limit possible exposure. Wisconsin mailed absentee ballot request forms to voters at the beginning of September and voters clearly preferred voting that way—especially seniors.

If you have any evidence that any voters in Wisconsin requested an indefinitely confined absentee ballot fraudulently, let the Trump lawyers know as they did not allege that even one voter actually did so. The Wisconsin Supreme Court performed a normal court function in settling a dispute over statutory language and intent. They did not make any assertions or assumptions regarding fraud, though you are free to continue to do so despite a lack of any evidence.

More endless bloviation.

I can’t imagine a State Representative would be confused about the law...

https://newstalk1130.iheart.com/featured/common-sense-central/content/2020-12-16-second-biden-elector-in-wisconsin-falsely-claimed-indefinite-confinement/

“Furthermore, if individual electors did not follow the statutory mandate and continued to vote as indefinitely confined, despite no longer meeting the statutory requirements, they would cast their votes contrary to the statute. In turn, because compliance with the absentee ballot process is mandatory, their ballots would not count.”


Illegal votes....fraud.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2020, 08:44:24 pm by Craig Lamson »
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digitaldog

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #4332 on: December 16, 2020, 08:41:27 pm »

And crickets from Chetos. What a guy.
Too many possible pardons to consider.
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LesPalenik

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #4333 on: December 16, 2020, 08:51:44 pm »

This is why I will be getting the vaccine ... as soon as we know it is safe and will not cause me to become anymore autistic then I already am.   ;)

Hey, if you dont think something is wrong with a person who can spit out the loft angles of all 14 clubs in his bag, then I dont know what to tell you other then we dont need him getting any worse.

Joe, you must be confusing me with someone else, I don't own any golf clubs, I couldn't recognize them from a hockey stick.  But I know my canoe paddles - beavertail, ottertail, teardrop and square tip.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2020, 11:31:32 am by LesPalenik »
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faberryman

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #4334 on: December 16, 2020, 09:04:27 pm »

More endless bloviation.
I can’t imagine a State Representative would be confused about the law...

I am not sure why you can’t imagine a state representative would be confused about the law. To the best of my knowledge, neither intelligence nor a familiarity with the law is a requirement for serving as a state representative. The Wisconsin Supreme Court acknowledged in its opinion that there was confusion. Indeed, that was why there was litigation over the issue.

There is no reason that you have to agree with the Wisconsin Supreme Court. You are free to disagree.

If the Wisconsin legislature believes that the court has misinterpreted its intent, it can amend the law to clarify its intent. Of course, if the legislature does, then all the people that agree with the court are going to be unhappy. Maybe they'll convince the legislature to change it back.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2020, 09:55:29 am by faberryman »
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Craig Lamson

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #4335 on: December 16, 2020, 09:17:14 pm »

I am not sure why you can’t imagine a state representative would be confused about the law. To the best of my knowledge, neither intelligence nor a familiarity with the law is a requirement for serving as a state representative. The Wisconsin Supreme Court acknowledged in its opinion that there was confusion. Indeed, that was why there was litigation over the issue.

There is no reason that you have to agree with the Wisconsin Supreme Court. You are free to disagree.

If anyone SHOULD know the law, it should be the lawmakers.  More to the point there should have no confusion in the first place.

So
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TechTalk

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #4336 on: December 16, 2020, 09:20:50 pm »

It’s not complex at all.

Wishing doesn't make it so. Read some legal briefs, court opinions, or listen to oral arguments. They certainly aren't simple.

You can’t claim you are indefinitely confined because of Covid or any other declared health emergency, or a governors orders.   If you do and you vote, your vote is illegal.

You can legally request an absentee ballot in Wisconsin based on age alone and the determination is made solely by the individual voter based on their current circumstances. Physical illness, infirmity, or disability also grant legal qualification—the determination is made solely by the individual voter based on their current circumstances.

People appeared to do so during the Presidential election based on the massive numbers of voters claiming indefinite confinement.

Appearances can be deceiving. Of course, if emotions override reason people will believe almost anything. That out of 3.3 million voters, 220,000 would meet one go the four legally qualifying conditions, which includes age, wouldn't exactly set off alarm bells—especially during a pandemic.

Wrap it in all the legalese you wish.

It's not my wish. It's what the law and courts consider and require.

The above cuts to the chase.

You just grossly over simplify.

Bloviate all you wish, it won’t change a thing.

I don't change anything regarding the matter, courts do.
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faberryman

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #4337 on: December 16, 2020, 09:28:10 pm »

If anyone SHOULD know the law, it should be the lawmakers.  More to the point there should have no confusion in the first place.

So

Perhaps there should have been no confusion. But there was confusion, and the court resolved that confusion. As I said, if the legislature disagrees with the court’s interpretation of the statute, they can amend the statute to provide greater clarity of their intent.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2020, 12:43:29 am by faberryman »
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TechTalk

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #4338 on: December 16, 2020, 09:34:14 pm »

More endless bloviation.

“Furthermore, if individual electors did not follow the statutory mandate and continued to vote as indefinitely confined, despite no longer meeting the statutory requirements, they would cast their votes contrary to the statute. In turn, because compliance with the absentee ballot process is mandatory, their ballots would not count.”

If... a word with only two letters and frequently a great deal of importance.

Illegal votes....fraud.

Speculation. Based on no apparent understanding of what fraud means in the law or to courts.

Wisconsin Supreme Court opinion in Donald J. Trump v. Joseph R. Biden, December 14, 2020:

We conclude the Campaign is not entitled to the relief it seeks. The challenge to the indefinitely confined voter ballots is meritless on its face

We conclude the challenge to indefinitely confined voter ballots is without merit
« Last Edit: December 16, 2020, 11:26:02 pm by TechTalk »
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TechTalk

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #4339 on: December 16, 2020, 10:00:13 pm »

I can’t imagine a State Representative would be confused about the law...

Different courts routinely reach different opinions regarding questions of law, but you "can’t imagine a State Representative would be confused about the law"?

https://newstalk1130.iheart.com/featured/common-sense-central/content/2020-12-16-second-biden-elector-in-wisconsin-falsely-claimed-indefinite-confinement/

Despite whatever assertions a talk radio station might make regarding election laws and fraud...

Designation of indefinitely confined status is for each individual voter to make based upon their current circumstance. It does not require permanent or total inability to travel outside of the residence.

« Last Edit: December 16, 2020, 10:30:17 pm by TechTalk »
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