Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa

[Craig Lamson]

Hey Craig; don't you want to comment about how Alan stole a photo? 

Nope, I don't care.

[Craig Lamson]

If the fraud is widespread, why only worry about recounts in 4 states that Trump lost? Shouldn't you be concerned with all states, even the ones he won?

Absolutely. I believe we have gone down this path before.

[Craig Lamson]

And if widespread fraud, how can ”we” accept the votes that elected any Republican?
So I can now believe, without any proof, the Senate is actually overwhelming controlled by Democrats.
Two sides can play this dangerous and undemocratic game but only one side has.

Why not just open up all the machines and check all the signatures and put this to bed then.  I'm all for it.

Then everyone can have proof.  As it stands we are left to believe, "without evidence", that every vote was legal, and counted fairly .

[Craig Lamson]

Whether you're posting commentary online or suggesting cleaning your weapons and loading the magazines online, neither require any courage or conviction. The ability to recognize and write logical and coherent sentences is helpful, however.

Yes, you are correct.  However its not the ideas or the way they are written that takes courage and conviction.  Its signing your name to them that does, Mr. Tech Talk.

[Craig Lamson]

Reports that Russian intelligence operatives have hacked sensitive networks including America’s Treasury and Commerce Departments - thought to be the latest highly sophisticated attack in a broader Russian campaign. So reassuring to think that the 'soon-to-be-gone' POTUS saw best, a few weeks ago, to remove Chris Krebs (the head of cyber-security) for the treasonable offence of publicly affirming the integrity of the presidential election.

Way to go, POTUS.
To quote (the long departed from this forum) Jeff Schewe 'Don't let the door hit you on the way out'.

And yet we are being told our computerized voting systems are all safe and secure.

[James Clark]

And yet we are being told our computerized voting systems are all safe and secure.

It's nowhere near "without evidence" that we are told this.  95% of ballots have a verifiable paper trail.  Georgia, has, for example, audited and confirmed the paper results against the computerized results.

https://sos.ga.gov/index.php/elections/historic_first_statewide_audit_of_paper_ballots_upholds_result_of_presidential_race

Limiting my comments to Georgia, there are two options.  1) The computerized tally properly reflects the ballots received, or 2) a lot of fake paper ballots were run through the machines.

Lets' entertain the latter - how could that possibly have happened without the knowledge and participation of volunteers and officials across both parties in a republican run state?

[Alan Klein]

Yes. And your point is? In Portugal, in 2020 the number of unemployed people has increased by 100,000. Of course there is an impact in the economy, but the government is supporting both individuals and businesses. The EU has approved a help package of 750,000,000,000 EUR.

My point is that while you're making your paycheck, there are others who aren't and can't feed their families or won't be able to if they lose their businesses or jobs.    How do you intend to feed these people forever.  750 billion Euros last only so long.  Then what? 

[Alan Klein]

It's nowhere near "without evidence" that we are told this.  95% of ballots have a verifiable paper trail.  Georgia, has, for example, audited and confirmed the paper results against the computerized results.

https://sos.ga.gov/index.php/elections/historic_first_statewide_audit_of_paper_ballots_upholds_result_of_presidential_race

Limiting my comments to Georgia, there are two options.  1) The computerized tally properly reflects the ballots received, or 2) a lot of fake paper ballots were run through the machines.

Lets' entertain the latter - how could that possibly have happened without the knowledge and participation of volunteers and officials across both parties in a republican run state?

There are Democratic run cities in those Republican run states.

[Manoli]

Then what? 

So your solution is ?

[Alan Klein]

Trying to engage Alan in a logical discussion is impossible. Feels like groundhog day... 1 year has elapsed and he has not moved on from his fixed ideas.

No one who posts on LuLa has changed their mind in four years. 

[Manoli]

There are Democratic run cities in those Republican run states.

Innuendo, conjecture and pure propaganda all fuelled by the bozo in the WH.
Not one shred of evidence and a win/loss ratio of 0:50 plus.

[Alan Klein]

So your solution is ?

We will continue to fumble around until the vaccine takes hold, assuming it works.  So the best we can do is push the vaccines quickly.  For me personally, because I'm 75 and have other medical issues, is to continue to isolate, wear a mask when I'm around others, and be careful.  Others have to make their own choices based on their personal circumstances.

[Robert Roaldi]

Absolutely. I believe we have gone down this path before.

Was the 2016 election rigged?

How about 2012?

Is there any combination of recount/sampling/survey/testimony that will ever convince you that the election was fair if your guy lost? Where's the end-point here? Other than personally counting each and every ballot yourself, would you believe anyone's evidence?

How likely is it that the election had been rigged but that no evidence has been shown to anyone's satisfaction yet? Is that plausible? That would have to be one hell of a perfect crime.

[James Clark]

There are Democratic run cities in those Republican run states.

So explain to me how they introduced all the “fake votes” into the system?

[Alan Klein]

Innuendo, conjecture and pure propaganda all fuelled by the bozo in the WH.
Not one shred of evidence and a win/loss ratio of 0:50 plus.

I didn't say there was fraud. I was correcting the post that claimed voting is protected in Republican run states.  Many cities in those states are Democratic run.  They control the voting booths and counting there.  Anyone who knows Mayor Daly from Chicago Illinois from years ago knows what I'm talking about. 

[jeremyrh]

You're the one accusing those in authority who are making decisions the best they can as being immoral.  Yet, you offer no practical solutions. 

Not sure what you're referring to - if it's about "Johnson" ignoring warnings, then my practical solution is to listen to the scientific advice and learn from previous mistakes when he acted too late and a lot of people died.

You sit in your armchair collecting your salary telling others they should starve and those trying to help those people as being spiritually bankrupt.  Somehow, you're smarter than 50 governors.

People starving or not is your political choice - there's no reason for people to starve in the world's richestr country, but I don't have a say in the matter since some incident in Boston a while ago.

[James Clark]

I didn't say there was fraud. I was correcting the post that claimed voting is protected in Republican run states.  Many cities in those states are Democratic run.  They control the voting booths and counting there.  Anyone who knows Mayor Daly from Chicago Illinois from years ago knows what I'm talking about.

Not what I claimed.  What I claimed was that Republicans verified that paper tallies matched computer tallies.  I’m now asking you how the fake paper ballots were introduced into the system when Republicans, whether in Democratic areas or not, are represented in the poll and counting areas, and in the electorate even on blue cities.

Edit “claim” is the wrong word.  It’s not my “opinion.”  Its a statement of fact that computerized counts in GA were not manipulated vs the paper ballot trail.

[Craig Lamson]

It's nowhere near "without evidence" that we are told this.  95% of ballots have a verifiable paper trail.  Georgia, has, for example, audited and confirmed the paper results against the computerized results.

https://sos.ga.gov/index.php/elections/historic_first_statewide_audit_of_paper_ballots_upholds_result_of_presidential_race

Limiting my comments to Georgia, there are two options.  1) The computerized tally properly reflects the ballots received, or 2) a lot of fake paper ballots were run through the machines.

Lets' entertain the latter - how could that possibly have happened without the knowledge and participation of volunteers and officials across both parties in a republican run state?

Ah but it is without evidence, if you can't see it.   Did you get to see all the signature verifications?  Its pretty clear the people tasked to be monitors didnt get to see them either.  And what about votes that got scanned, rejected and adjudicated.  Were we privy to all of the decisions on what to do with those votes?  Now this is just the statement of a Georgia election official I saw on video so I'm not confirming it, just passing it along.  He said (and I'm paraphrasing) that they has scanned 160K of ballots and adjudicated 103k. That process is to be used for problem ballots.  103k out of 160K?  Really.  Again I don't have access to the machines so I can't confirm but it is said Dominion machines create a new paper ballot when doing adjudications.  So yea the paper trail and the computer count will match.  So what?  In Georgia, 12k ballots or so swing the election.

So do we really have evidence?  Or are we simply being told we have "evidence" and is that "evidence reliable?   

People cheat all the time.  It's part of the human experience.  Georgia is a Rebublican run state but elections ard staffed and run on a local level.  What party runs Atlanta and the surrounding areas?. 

Biden won.  Nothing at this point is going to change that.  Still lots of hinky shit happened.  The Wisconsin Supreme court just yesterday said votes were likely case illegally.  How many? Who knows.  Relief?  None offered.  Could have it changed the outcome?  Yes.  Votes cast legally were diluted by illegal votes. 

So whats next?  Business as usual as long as it benefits the side you are on?

[Alan Klein]

So explain to me how they introduced all the “fake votes” into the system?

We went through that recently in posts here.  Paterson NJ election was rejected by the courts due to fraud and phony ballot harvesting using mail-in votes and other fraud.
https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/politics/paterson-city-council-vice-president-among-4-charged-with-voting-fraud-in-may-special-election-nj-ag/2484797/

[Manoli]

Well that's refreshing except that you don't always need to isolate.

> Keep your distance, where a mask* in proximity to others and where at all possible stay outside (in a breeze - that disperses the aerosols faster than you can say 'adios Trump').
> Also wash your hands (assuming you're not wearing rubber gloves).
> Don't touch your face without a 20 second hand wash first.
> If someone sneezes close to you (even further away than 2 metres) - hold your breath and R-U-N.

Congratulations, you've just espoused what Fauci and the CDC have been advocating pretty much since the beginning - and I hope you and your wife get the vaccine real soon.

* the mask is as much to protect others as it is to protect yourself. it's a topic under review but on the basis that it does no harm and can potentially do a lot of good - act now, talk later !

We will continue to fumble around until the vaccine takes hold, assuming it works.  So the best we can do is push the vaccines quickly.  For me personally, because I'm 75 and have other medical issues, is to continue to isolate, wear a mask when I'm around others, and be careful.  Others have to make their own choices based on their personal circumstances.