Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa

[faberryman]

See my last post.  If the dopes had mailed them all individually, instead of bundling them up with rubber bands, no one would have been the wiser.

And you know this how?

There could have been a lot more than the 900 that were not picked up and were counted.  That's why the judge threw out the entire election even though the 900 were not counted.  Maybe they're not so many dopes in other states.  They'll mail them individually.  How's anyone going to know?

Signature verification?

I don't think you answered my question on how election officials actually determined the ballots were fraudulent.

Well, 900 of the votes were definitely fraudulent.  Those are the ones they know about.  The guy who lost, lost by 240 votes.

So we are down from 3000 to 900?

And out of 38 lawsuits, Trump has not been able to produce a single shred of evidence of voter fraud. Well, maybe Sidney Powell will be able to repatriate that server that has votes showing Trump winning in a landslide from Germany where the army is guarding it.

[TechTalk]

Well, 900 of the votes were definitely fraudulent.

The votes that you are referring to were eliminated due to illegal collection of the ballots in excess of the number permitted to be collected by a single individual NOT because the ballots themselves were fraudulent.

It's similar to the case in North Carolina where a Republican congressional candidate hired a ballot harvesting operative that collected ballots illegally. They too were caught because the system to prevent that type of illegal conduct in an election worked.

In both cases it was the voters that were defrauded who didn't realize that there ballots were being illegally collected. Fraud inflicted upon the voters, not fraudulent ballots by illegal voters.

[Alan Klein]

And you know this how?

Signature verification?

I don't think you answered my question on how election officials actually determined the ballots were fraudulent.

So we are down from 3000 to 900?

I explained in another post that the mailmen who picked up hundred of the ballots rubber-banded together reported it to the PO Inspectors.  That's how they were caught.  We're not down to 900.  The judge said because of the apparent fraud there were 3000 that were additionally questionable.  There apparently was no way to actually check to see if they were fraudulent or not.  So that means signature, and other methods would be of no avail.  The vote was so tainted because of the 900 and the fact that two of the culprits were actually the candidates running for the office, the judge threw them out.  You'll never be satisfied it was corrupt even with this evidence and the judge's decision. 

900 votes aren't enough proof for you.

[digitaldog]

Well, 900 of the votes were definitely fraudulent.

And you initially said 3000 were fraudulent until corrected. We must keep fact checking you, kinda like Trump.

[faberryman]

I explained in another post that the mailmen who picked up hundred of the ballots rubber-banded together reported it to the PO Inspectors.  That's how they were caught.  We're not down to 900.  The judge said because of the apparent fraud there were 3000 that were additionally questionable.  There apparently was no way to actually check to see if they were fraudulent or not.  So that means signature, and other methods would be of no avail.  The vote was so tainted because of the 900 and the fact that two of the culprits were actually the candidates running for the office, the judge threw them out.  You'll never be satisfied it was corrupt even with this evidence and the judge's decision.
 900 votes aren't enough proof for you.

I have no doubt that fraud occurred in the Paterson city council race. I don't think it is compelling enough to outlaw mail in voting nation-wide.

Could you post a link to the judge's decision. I can only find newspaper accounts which are pretty sketchy on the details, and you sound kind of like you are winging it on the facts.

[Craig Lamson]

Possible, but highly doubtful.

Thanks, even more evidence.

[Alan Klein]

The votes that you are referring to were eliminated due to illegal collection of the ballots in excess of the number permitted to be collected by a single individual NOT because the ballots themselves were fraudulent.

It's similar to the case in North Carolina where a Republican congressional candidate hired a ballot harvesting operative that collected ballots illegally. They too were caught because the system to prevent that type of illegal conduct in an election worked.

In both cases it was the voters that were defrauded who didn't realize that there ballots were being illegally collected. Fraud inflicted upon the voters, not fraudulent ballots by illegal voters.

Tortured logic.  You sound like Trump. 

If the ballots were fraudulently collected, then the ballots are fraudulent.  The ballots could be from dead people.  Maybe the collectors put a gun up to the head of the voter or induced them with money to vote a particular way?  Maybe they went to an old age home and scratched in the votes and collected the ballots from oldsters who don't remember their names.  That's why it's illegal to collect and bundle ballots.  Especially when two of the four people indicted were the candidates themselves. 

What I'd like to know is how they got the ballots? If little councilmen can come up with 900 ballots in a little town, what happens in a big state like Arizona?

[TechTalk]

Thanks, even more evidence.

Keep collecting your evidence. Someday you might have enough for a post that makes a point.

[Alan Klein]

Timely article.  Just what I've been posting about.  With the upcoming Senate runoff in Georgia, there's going to be a huge temptation for fraud. never mind possible fraud during the presidential election..

Georgia official announces investigations, defends election
ATLANTA (AP) — Georgia’s top elections official announced investigations Monday into potential violations of election law even as he defended the integrity of the state’s election against what he’s said are baseless attacks.
(Gov) Raffensperger said there have been attempts to register ineligible people to vote ahead of a high-profile Jan. 5 runoff election for Georgia’s two U.S. Senate seats. He said his office’s 23 investigators also are looking into allegations of absentee ballot problems, as well as claims of people voting twice, people casting a dead person’s ballot and non-residents voting.[/b]
https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-georgia-state-elections-elections-voter-registration-0dda2f95b4cea6506be9fb6555195a1c

[Craig Lamson]

Keep collecting your evidence. Someday you might have enough for a post that makes a point.

The point is already made.   You just don’t know what it is. 

[TechTalk]

What you choose to make of them is not my concern.

The point is already made.   You just don’t know what it is.

I'm not really concerned. Maybe someday you'll make a point that someone is concerned about.

[TechTalk]

Tortured logic.  You sound like Trump. 
If the ballots were fraudulently collected, then the ballots are fraudulent.

Tortured logic? If someone collects your legitimate credit card information and uses that illegally, it does NOT mean that your credit card is fraudulent. It means the person that collected the information and used it in an illegal manner committed an act of fraud. But if you can't see the difference, so be it.

[faberryman]

Timely article.  Just what I've been posting about.  With the upcoming Senate runoff in Georgia, there's going to be a huge temptation for fraud. never mind possible fraud during the presidential election..

Georgia official announces investigations, defends election
ATLANTA (AP) — Georgia’s top elections official announced investigations Monday into potential violations of election law even as he defended the integrity of the state’s election against what he’s said are baseless attacks.
(Gov) Raffensperger said there have been attempts to register ineligible people to vote ahead of a high-profile Jan. 5 runoff election for Georgia’s two U.S. Senate seats. He said his office’s 23 investigators also are looking into allegations of absentee ballot problems, as well as claims of people voting twice, people casting a dead person’s ballot and non-residents voting.[/b]
https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-georgia-state-elections-elections-voter-registration-0dda2f95b4cea6506be9fb6555195a1c

You definitely need to investigate claims of fraud, no question about it. I think Kayleigh what's her name had a big stack of 243 affidavits with claims of fraud, which she waived around dramatically on a number of occasions, none of which panned out. So you do need to keep in mind that there is a difference between claims of fraud and actual incidences of fraud.

[Craig Lamson]

I'm not really concerned. Maybe someday you'll make a point that someone is concerned about.

You don’t know that is not already happening, but once again you simply add the growing pile of evidence.  Thanks.

[TechTalk]

You don’t know that is not already happening, but once again you simply add the growing pile of evidence.  Thanks.

You're welcome. Enjoy your pile of whatever it is.

[faberryman]

What I'd like to know is how they got the ballots? If little councilmen can come up with 900 ballots in a little town, what happens in a big state like Arizona?

Seems like the newspaper accounts would have told us how they got the ballots. See what I mean about the media being sketchy on the details? More questions than there are answers.

What surprises me is it is assumed that all the fraudulent ballots were cast in favor of Biden. Maybe Trump just didn't do a good enough job of getting his fraudulent ballots counted. Maybe some of his henchmen dropped the ball. I think a lot of stuff Trump does is half-ass, so it wouldn't surprise me if it turns out his ballot stuffing efforts were half-ass too. That's probably why is so mad.

[Craig Lamson]

Tortured logic.  You sound like Trump. 

If the ballots were fraudulently collected, then the ballots are fraudulent.  The ballots could be from dead people.  Maybe the collectors put a gun up to the head of the voter or induced them with money to vote a particular way?  Maybe they went to an old age home and scratched in the votes and collected the ballots from oldsters who don't remember their names.  That's why it's illegal to collect and bundle ballots.  Especially when two of the four people indicted were the candidates themselves. 

What I'd like to know is how they got the ballots? If little councilmen can come up with 900 ballots in a little town, what happens in a big state like Arizona?

Here is an interesting report on signature verification in the Nevada election this year.  Notes it’s a re- report of an article that originated with the Las Vegas Review Journal which is behind a paywall.

Journalist  tests Nevada voter signature verification

https://www.westernjournal.com/journalist-tests-nevada-voter-signature-verification-discovers-whopping-89-failure-rate/

[Craig Lamson]

You're welcome. Enjoy your pile of whatever it is.

I’m am, and it’s a steaming pile of Tech Talk.

[TechTalk]

Timely article.  Just what I've been posting about.  With the upcoming Senate runoff in Georgia, there's going to be a huge temptation for fraud. never mind possible fraud during the presidential election..

Georgia official announces investigations, defends election
ATLANTA (AP) — Georgia’s top elections official announced investigations Monday into potential violations of election law even as he defended the integrity of the state’s election against what he’s said are baseless attacks.
(Gov) [Secretary of State] Raffensperger said there have been attempts to register ineligible people to vote ahead of a high-profile Jan. 5 runoff election for Georgia’s two U.S. Senate seats. He said his office’s 23 investigators also are looking into allegations of absentee ballot problems, as well as claims of people voting twice, people casting a dead person’s ballot and non-residents voting.
https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-georgia-state-elections-elections-voter-registration-0dda2f95b4cea6506be9fb6555195a1c

The article continues...

But Raffensperger also punched back — as he has repeatedly since the Nov. 3 general election — at allegations online and in lawsuits that the state’s election was marred by widespread fraud. President Donald Trump, who narrowly lost to Democrat Joe Biden in Georgia, is among those criticizing the state’s handling of the election.

“There are those who are exploiting the emotions of many Trump supporters with fantastic claims, half-truths, misinformation and, frankly, they’re misleading the president as well, apparently,” Raffensperger said.

[TechTalk]

I’m am, and it’s a steaming pile of Tech Talk.

Put it on your nightstand next to your other collections of evidence. It'll keep you warm on cold winter nights.