Pages: 1 ... 124 125 [126] 127 128 ... 910   Go Down

Author Topic: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa  (Read 1365412 times)

Manoli

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2359
Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #2500 on: November 26, 2020, 07:50:57 am »

Update on the Astra Zeneca/Oxford vaccine

Astra Zeneca reported efficacy of 90% if half a dose was given followed by a full dose a month later, while a different trial showed efficacy of 62% if two full doses were given a month apart. Overall, it calculated the efficacy at 70%.

AstraZeneca and scientists at Oxford University, were unable to explain why there was such a large gap in the effectiveness of the vaccine at different doses and why a smaller dose produced much better results. The company disclosed that fewer than 2,800 people received the smaller dose compared with nearly 8,000 who received two full doses. But it did not reveal how many Covid-19 cases were found in each group.

Quote
During the phase III trials, our UK study used two dose levels.

The initial dose selection, which was agreed with regulators, was based on the same measurement of the concentration (using spectrophotometry) used in the phase I study, but, as a result of a difference in the manufacturing process for the later study, this method was subsequently shown to over-estimate the dose on the new batches of vaccine resulting in a half dose of the vaccine being administered as the first dose.

We have different ways of measuring the concentration of the vaccine and when it was apparent that a lower dose was used, we discussed this with the regulator, and agreed a plan to test both the lower dose / higher dose and higher dose / higher dose, allowing us to include both approaches in the phase III trial.

The methods for measuring the concentration are now established and we can ensure that all batches of vaccine are now equivalent.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/25/business/coronavirus-vaccine-astrazeneca-oxford.html?
Logged

Slobodan Blagojevic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18210
  • When everyone thinks the same, nobody thinks
    • My website
Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #2501 on: November 26, 2020, 07:57:29 am »

...If the lockdown is planned and executed properly...

Then, like socialism, it would work.

Quote
... On a personal level, by practicing my own lockdown and avoiding crowded spaces so far I was able to avoid the virus, but if I started to relax my social distancing and went to bars and travel in a rush hour on crowded buses, I might have contracted it...

After I recovered in March, I went to numerous pub concerts by my musician friends, with 200-300 people shoulder to shoulder in cigarette-smoke filled rooms with poor ventilation, to restaurants, cafes, and shopping centers crowded with people, took public transport, have been wearing the same mask (when required by law) for weeks, shook hands and hug all close friends and relatives. Never heard of anyone from those aforementioned situations infected, waiters especially.

Quote
... Opposite of a lockdown is Trump's latest idiotic and irresponsible encouragement of travel and group gatherings for this Thanksgiving....

So much better is the virtue-signalling hypocrisy of the Democratic governors, mayers and functionaries: order people locked down, but travel themselves, or go to dinners and parties, including the medical experts who are telling us otherwise. The news is full of those examples across America (and probably Canada).

Robert Roaldi

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5518
    • Robert's Photos
Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #2502 on: November 26, 2020, 08:12:05 am »

So if the old folks meet their family in a specially designated room with good ventilation, both wearing mask, have negative tests, do not spend more than 10-15 minutes per visit, have hands disinfected before and after, etc., shouldn't that be enough?

In a sense, that's probably correct. It's obvious to me that what is needed is multi-pronged protection, testing, masks, hand cleaning, social distance, etc., all the things that everyone already knows need to all be in place to overcome the weaknesses of any one of them. And they have to be in place simultaneously. There's a lot of whining about it, but it's not that difficult to, it's just inconvenient. The citizens of the UK did much more difficult things during WW2.  Since there is no one magic bullet, not even a vaccine will be 100% effective, many layers of defence are required. Lockdowns are not really part of an acceptable solution, they are what we're left with when people refuse to implement the other things properly.

So, in simplistic terms, if some jurisdiction opens up a little to keep businesses afloat (that's how we phrase it but really what we're doing is permitting services to reach people) without also implementing enough of the usual contagion safeguards, infections go up, deaths ensue and then we have to clamp down, sometimes via lockdowns. We use the word "lockdown" too loosely, I believe, "restrictions" might be a better word. There's no one with machine guns in Toronto preventing people from buying groceries.

Those other non-lockdown pandemic restrictions are what would permit parts of the economy to stay above water. If everyone was religious in their observance of mask-wearing et al, then maybe we could reduce infection danger enough to keep schools open, as one example. If the medical systems aren't swamped, then maybe they have the time to think about better treatments, or have some free time to dream up better vaccines. But if everyone is in "lockdown/restrictions" because of runaway infections and hospitals are all overcome, all of that other stuff becomes more difficult to do, and it has a big impact on other non-Covid medical conditions what cannot be addressed.

There is no avoiding some deaths, and there is no avoiding an impact on the economy. It's not as if the economy would remain normal if we took no action against the virus; that idea is just ridiculous, it was never a two-variable problem. As is almost always the case in human affairs, some compromise is called for. This is probably not going to end for another year or three.

Logged
--
Robert

Robert Roaldi

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5518
    • Robert's Photos
Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #2503 on: November 26, 2020, 08:13:31 am »

Then, like socialism, it would work.



Change the record.
Logged
--
Robert

kers

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4607
    • Pieter Kers
Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #2504 on: November 26, 2020, 08:21:37 am »

Then, like socialism, it would work.

socialism is not the same as being social.
Logged

jeremyrh

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2514
Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #2505 on: November 26, 2020, 08:27:47 am »

Update on the Astra Zeneca/Oxford vaccine

Astra Zeneca reported efficacy of 90% if half a dose was given followed by a full dose a month later, while a different trial showed efficacy of 62% if two full doses were given a month apart. Overall, it calculated the efficacy at 70%.

AstraZeneca and scientists at Oxford University, were unable to explain why there was such a large gap in the effectiveness of the vaccine at different doses and why a smaller dose produced much better results. The company disclosed that fewer than 2,800 people received the smaller dose compared with nearly 8,000 who received two full doses. But it did not reveal how many Covid-19 cases were found in each group.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/25/business/coronavirus-vaccine-astrazeneca-oxford.html?

Some more details on that:

https://www.wired.com/story/the-astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-data-isnt-up-to-snuff/

Maybe rejoicing will have to be put on hold - for a while, anyway.

See also this Twitter thread:

https://twitter.com/globalhlthtwit/status/1331666179946115074
Logged

jeremyrh

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2514
Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #2506 on: November 26, 2020, 08:30:48 am »

So if the old folks meet their family in a specially designated room with good ventilation, both wearing mask, have negative tests, do not spend more than 10-15 minutes per visit, have hands disinfected before and after, etc., shouldn't that be enough?

"Then, like socialism, it would work"

Meanwhile:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/25/sicily-asks-cuba-to-send-medics-as-italy-fights-second-covid-wave
Logged

Slobodan Blagojevic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18210
  • When everyone thinks the same, nobody thinks
    • My website
Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #2507 on: November 26, 2020, 08:33:23 am »

Change the record.

I might... when you et al stop peddling socialism.

Slobodan Blagojevic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18210
  • When everyone thinks the same, nobody thinks
    • My website
Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #2508 on: November 26, 2020, 08:36:07 am »

"Then, like socialism, it would work"

Meanwhile:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/25/sicily-asks-cuba-to-send-medics-as-italy-fights-second-covid-wave

What about it?

Free universities produce oversupply of doctors that the government then uses for human trafficking abroad.

jeremyrh

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2514
Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #2509 on: November 26, 2020, 08:38:42 am »


After I recovered in March, I went to numerous pub concerts by my musician friends, with 200-300 people shoulder to shoulder in cigarette-smoke filled rooms with poor ventilation, to restaurants, cafes, and shopping centers crowded with people, took public transport, have been wearing the same mask (when required by law) for weeks, shook hands and hug all close friends and relatives. Never heard of anyone from those aforementioned situations infected, waiters especially.


Yeah, you're right. All those dead people are just lying down holding their breath?
Logged

LesPalenik

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5338
    • advantica blog
Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #2510 on: November 26, 2020, 08:48:45 am »

After I recovered in March, I went to numerous pub concerts by my musician friends, with 200-300 people shoulder to shoulder in cigarette-smoke filled rooms with poor ventilation, to restaurants, cafes, and shopping centers crowded with people, took public transport, have been wearing the same mask (when required by law) for weeks, shook hands and hug all close friends and relatives. Never heard of anyone from those aforementioned situations infected, waiters especially.

This is a proof that the cigarette smoke kills the virus.
Logged

chez

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2501
Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #2511 on: November 26, 2020, 09:15:42 am »

What about it?

Free universities produce oversupply of doctors that the government then uses for human trafficking abroad.

You love to spew crap.
Logged

Paulo Bizarro

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7523
    • http://www.paulobizarro.com
Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #2512 on: November 26, 2020, 09:15:49 am »

Then, like socialism, it would work.

After I recovered in March, I went to numerous pub concerts by my musician friends, with 200-300 people shoulder to shoulder in cigarette-smoke filled rooms with poor ventilation, to restaurants, cafes, and shopping centers crowded with people, took public transport, have been wearing the same mask (when required by law) for weeks, shook hands and hug all close friends and relatives. Never heard of anyone from those aforementioned situations infected, waiters especially.



That must be a unique or rare case worldwide, and should be published in scientific papers. In the rest of the world, large gatherings and events, whitout the adequate protection measures, have resulted in infection spread. This must be why Serbia has enforced lockdown too.

armand

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5566
    • Photos
Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #2513 on: November 26, 2020, 09:31:03 am »

Yesterday 2300 deaths in the US - i am afraid of a significant rise after Thanksgiving.
You can call it thanksforgivingmecovid.

It will. They will be trading Thanksgiving with family for Christmas in the hospital.

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15850
    • Flicker photos
Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #2514 on: November 26, 2020, 10:10:12 am »

The inevitable development of a highly effective vaccine?

(The woman killed herself three weeks before Pfizer's announcement.)

What approach do you think care homes should take? Let it rip?
By the time the vaccines are released, half the population might have gotten it and won't need the vaccines.  We'll already have "herd immunity", or near to it.

Interesting question.  Will they test you for antibodies to see if you've had it before giving you the vaccine?  I haven't heard anyone talking about that.  That would complicate and delay the whole vaccination program.   

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15850
    • Flicker photos
Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #2515 on: November 26, 2020, 10:19:28 am »

So my wife and I received postcards from our election office thanking us for voting.  Since we voted by mail, it provides confidence that our votes did count and were recorded.  Not that it made a difference here in Blue State New Jersey.   ::)

Were others here notified their mail-in ballots were received?  What state?

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15850
    • Flicker photos
Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #2516 on: November 26, 2020, 10:31:38 am »

In a sense, that's probably correct. It's obvious to me that what is needed is multi-pronged protection, testing, masks, hand cleaning, social distance, etc., all the things that everyone already knows need to all be in place to overcome the weaknesses of any one of them. And they have to be in place simultaneously. There's a lot of whining about it, but it's not that difficult to, it's just inconvenient. The citizens of the UK did much more difficult things during WW2.  Since there is no one magic bullet, not even a vaccine will be 100% effective, many layers of defence are required. Lockdowns are not really part of an acceptable solution, they are what we're left with when people refuse to implement the other things properly.

So, in simplistic terms, if some jurisdiction opens up a little to keep businesses afloat (that's how we phrase it but really what we're doing is permitting services to reach people) without also implementing enough of the usual contagion safeguards, infections go up, deaths ensue and then we have to clamp down, sometimes via lockdowns. We use the word "lockdown" too loosely, I believe, "restrictions" might be a better word. There's no one with machine guns in Toronto preventing people from buying groceries.

Those other non-lockdown pandemic restrictions are what would permit parts of the economy to stay above water. If everyone was religious in their observance of mask-wearing et al, then maybe we could reduce infection danger enough to keep schools open, as one example. If the medical systems aren't swamped, then maybe they have the time to think about better treatments, or have some free time to dream up better vaccines. But if everyone is in "lockdown/restrictions" because of runaway infections and hospitals are all overcome, all of that other stuff becomes more difficult to do, and it has a big impact on other non-Covid medical conditions what cannot be addressed.

There is no avoiding some deaths, and there is no avoiding an impact on the economy. It's not as if the economy would remain normal if we took no action against the virus; that idea is just ridiculous, it was never a two-variable problem. As is almost always the case in human affairs, some compromise is called for. This is probably not going to end for another year or three.


Maybe we're already doing the best we can do. The disease is virulent.  And people need or have to move around for economic and social reasons and be exposed.  Each culture's methods are limited to who and what they are.  It's like going out to shoot pictures and the light just isn't working for you.  So what you get is the best you can do.  Reminds me of a barking contest where they see which breed barks the best and awards the winner. Some dogs just bark better.

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15850
    • Flicker photos
Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #2517 on: November 26, 2020, 10:33:29 am »

In any case, Happy Thanksgiving everyone.  We all have a lot to be thankful for. We're all here pissing and moaning about things.  Always a good sign.  :)

faberryman

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4851
Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #2518 on: November 26, 2020, 11:14:20 am »

By the time the vaccines are released, half the population might have gotten it and won't need the vaccines.  We'll already have "herd immunity", or near to it.

Nonsense. Complete nonsense.
Logged

chez

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2501
Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #2519 on: November 26, 2020, 11:17:45 am »

By the time the vaccines are released, half the population might have gotten it and won't need the vaccines.  We'll already have "herd immunity", or near to it.

Interesting question.  Will they test you for antibodies to see if you've had it before giving you the vaccine?  I haven't heard anyone talking about that.  That would complicate and delay the whole vaccination program.

And how many people would have died as herd immunity is reached. Seems like Sweeden's experiment has not worked.
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 124 125 [126] 127 128 ... 910   Go Up