Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa

[Alan Klein]

No one thinks fraud is ok.  Everyone acknowledges that there are isolated cases, and that they don't correlate to party affiliation.   

This isn't the problem.   The problem is that one group of people is using the specter of MASSIVE VOTER FRAUD to cast Biden's win as illegitimate. They're doing it without evidence.  As of this morning 12 cases had been thrown out of court.  But the seems not to matter, because even without evidence, legislatures are being pressured to ignore the legal mechanism for selecting electors and literally (this time for real) *steal the election*.   Secretaries of state are being pressured to resign by prominent members of their own party because they won't publicly embrace the fiction.  Fox News tonight said that red-staters are so angry (presumably because they ignorantly believe that Biden's win was illegitimate, and that there's evidence of the sort of fraud that would change the outcome) that state officials will find it "hard to certify the election results."  To which the in-studio anchor replied, "Well wouldn't that be interesting?"

No, dammit, it wouldn't be "interesting." 

*This is not normal*  Or OK.  Why can't you see that?

I seem to recall four years ago the claims that Trump won illegitimately.  The Russians did it.  Comey did it.  Etc.   Then the losers demanded recounts.  Then they tried to get Trump electors to vote for Clinton.   Then they had Mueller investigate for two years.  He's a traitor was the claim.  It went on for four years and counting.  Apparently it was democracy at work.   What  a bunch of hypocrites. 

[TechTalk]

Are we back again?  I’d asked what did he have to gain by coming out with his statement. ... The guys a simple mail carrier.  Why lie?

Well, he had racked up more than $136,000 in donations from his GoFundMe page that he set up, at least he did until GoFundMe froze the account. So... he switched to another fundraising site and is currently at $170,000 in donations and rising quickly.

https://www.givesendgo.com/bebrave

He released his story thru Project Veritas. Project Veritas is, and was, advertising a $25,000 reward specifically for firsthand witnesses of Pennsylvania voter fraud.

He also may like all of the attention that he's currently getting, including the President of the United States calling him a brave patriot. There is the national media attention and all of the people sending messages telling him that he's a great guy.

He may also be motivated by intense, but misguided political motivations. It's all speculation until there is credible evidence as to his claim or his motive.

[TechTalk]

Or maybe the subject is simply played out.  Like the two ballots.

Apparently not yet.

[James Clark]

I seem to recall four years ago the claims that Trump won illegitimately.  The Russians did it.  Comey did it.  Etc.   Then the losers demanded recounts.  Then they tried to get Trump electors to vote for Clinton.   Then they had Mueller investigate for two years.  He's a traitor was the claim.  It went on for four years and counting.  Apparently it was democracy at work.   What  a bunch of hypocrites.

Your memory is worse than Biden’s. 

[Craig Lamson]

No one thinks fraud is ok.  Everyone acknowledges that there are isolated cases, and that they don't correlate to party affiliation.   

This isn't the problem.   The problem is that one group of people is using the specter of MASSIVE VOTER FRAUD to cast Biden's win as illegitimate. They're doing it without evidence.  As of this morning 12 cases had been thrown out of court.  But the seems not to matter, because even without evidence, legislatures are being pressured to ignore the legal mechanism for selecting electors and literally (this time for real) *steal the election*.   Secretaries of state are being pressured to resign by prominent members of their own party because they won't publicly embrace the fiction.  Fox News tonight said that red-staters are so angry (presumably because they ignorantly believe that Biden's win was illegitimate, and that there's evidence of the sort of fraud that would change the outcome) that state officials will find it "hard to certify the election results."  To which the in-studio anchor replied, "Well wouldn't that be interesting?"

No, dammit, it wouldn't be "interesting." 

*This is not normal*  Or OK.  Why can't you see that?

It’s very simple I don’t trust any of them.  If little bits of fraud exist it stands to reason that bigger examples exist as well.  It’s just damn hard to prove and no one really wants to look behind the curtain.  Everyone should welcome a deep dive into the way we do elections.  Like Carville  said, let’s do the investigations so we can beat Trump twice.  If there’s nothing to hide why worry?

This year is a mess and the chaos was feature and by not a bug.  More cases are coming and some may survive.  What’s the problem?  You say there is no evidence, the Trump filings say differently.  Time will tell.

There is a process for a state to select electors.  The legislatures can take the vote count or reject it.  That’s the law.  It’s not theft it’s the rules in many states.  And yes, that would be very interesting.

Btw, 4 years later the last Democratic presidential candidate is still calling Trumps election illegitimate.  And you wonder why some red staters are pissed?  Really?
.

[digitaldog]

Interesting finish for a guy who for 5 years criticized Trump including his sexual picadillos.  I hope Toobin reads the magazine with both hands.

Jeffrey Toobin
@JeffreyToobin
"I was fired today by @NewYorker after 27 years as a Staff Writer. I will always love the magazine, will miss my colleagues, and will look forward to reading their work.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/11/business/media/jeffrey-toobin-fired-new-yorker.html

Please replay Tump on Access Hollywood, bragging about grabbing pussies, and then tell us how odd Toobin’s behavior is in comparison. Jeff is a rank amateur in comparison.

[Craig Lamson]

Apparently not yet.

The two ballots are.

[Craig Lamson]

Well, he had racked up more than $136,000 in donations from his GoFundMe page that he set up, at least he did until GoFundMe froze the account. So... he switched to another fundraising site and is currently at $170,000 in donations and rising quickly.

https://www.givesendgo.com/bebrave

He released his story thru Project Veritas. Project Veritas is, and was, advertising a $25,000 reward specifically for firsthand witnesses of Pennsylvania voter fraud.

He also may like all of the attention that he's currently getting, including the President of the United States calling him a brave patriot. There is the national media attention and all of the people sending messages telling him that he's a great guy.

He may also be motivated by intense, but misguided political motivations. It's all speculation until there is credible evidence as to his claim or his motive.

170k is peanuts over a lifetime.  Do you think there will be any further investigation by the feds? I don’t.  They have buried it with a tweet.

[TechTalk]

The two ballots are.

Yeah. You should definitely push that one to the side. It definitely makes the claims of fraud at the Erie postal facility appear unfounded and some might even say suspicious.

[BernardLanguillier]

You do realize that lock is not there to actually lock the gate, but to hold a key presumably to use to open the actual lock on the gate?  Have you ever bought or sold a house, or maybe had a contractor work on a property you where not at and they needed to let themselves in?

I also fail to see how this fence symbolizes decay and fear.  I mean if there was a lot more rust, sure.  But that is nothing a little elbow grease, sandpaper and some touch up paint cant fix in a weekend.

Thanks for your feedbacks.

Still interested in your comments about what you like/dislike with Trump btw.

Cheers,
Bernard

[Alan Klein]

Please replay Tump on Access Hollywood, bragging about grabbing pussies, and then tell us how odd Toobin’s behavior is in comparison. Jeff is a rank amateur in comparison.

Toobin got caught. 

[Craig Lamson]

Yeah. You should definitely push that one to the side. It definitely makes the claims of fraud at the Erie postal facility appear unfounded and some might even say suspicious.

Either the guy heard what he did or he did not.  If what he said he heard was true the number of ballots is meaningless. 

It’s wrong regardless. 

[James Clark]

Either the guy heard what he did or he did not.  If what he said he heard was true the number of ballots is meaningless. 

It’s wrong regardless.

I don’t think anyone disagrees with that.

[TechTalk]

I don’t think anyone disagrees with that.

That's where evidence enters the picture. The current evidence from review by multiple independent observers of the ballots received by the County Election Board doesn't align with the story being told by the postal worker. We'll see where it goes from there.

[James Clark]

That's where evidence enters the picture. The current evidence from review by multiple independent observers of the ballots received by the County Election Board doesn't align with the story being told by the postal worker. We'll see where it goes from there.

Precious little evidence has entered the picture thus far

[TechTalk]

There is a process for a state to select electors.  The legislatures can take the vote count or reject it.  That’s the law.  It’s not theft it’s the rules in many states.  And yes, that would be very interesting.

We've been down this road as well. It's not even close to being that simple. But it would be quite interesting to see what would happen if a State legislature attempted to ignore the will of their voters and change the laws which govern the election process after an election.

[TechTalk]

Precious little evidence has entered the picture thus far

I'm not sure what evidence you are looking for, but it will all play out over time. The ballots received after November 3rd have already been reviewed by the County and independent observers and there is no evidence that anything unusual or fraudulent occurred in their delivery or postmarking dates.

https://www.erienewsnow.com/story/erie-county-mailin-ballots-received-after-election-day-split-almost-evenly-between-trump-and-biden

https://www.goerie.com/story/news/2020/11/10/only-2-late-ballots-postmarked-nov-3-came-erie-postal-facility

[BernardLanguillier]

I seem to recall four years ago the claims that Trump won illegitimately.  The Russians did it.  Comey did it.  Etc.   Then the losers demanded recounts.  Then they tried to get Trump electors to vote for Clinton.   Then they had Mueller investigate for two years.  He's a traitor was the claim.  It went on for four years and counting.  Apparently it was democracy at work.   What  a bunch of hypocrites.

Yet, Clinton recognized defeat in 24h and Obama had invited Trump to the White house a week after election, although the gap in key states in favor of Trump was lower than what it is this year in favor of Biden.

There is zero evidence that more fraud happened this year than 4 years ago, nor that if fraud there was it was perpetrated in favor of Democrats. They are not attacking Republicans on a possible fraud only because they won. But as far as I concerned I feel that the odds that Republicans tried to cheat is much higher.

Cheers,
Bernard

[Paulo Bizarro]

Lock downs did not do anything to mitigate the spread poor little doggie.  Italy had large scale lockdowns and they got walloped anyway.

This is spreading wrong information, based in ignorance. Even you should be able to figure out that gatherings promote the spreading of infection. On the 1st wave countries got caught unawares and reacted too late. But it was the lockdown in March and April that flattened the curve.

The 2nd wave in Europe is a consequence of summer vacations and travel. The number of cases is higher now, but by a combination of selected lockdowns by region and doctors knowing to treat the disease better, the curve is starting to come down slowly.

In Portugal, 68% of new cases happen in the contrext of large family and friends gatherings. Must be similar in many countries. I am perfectly willing not to have family gatherings over Christmas, because that will save lifes.

I am sorry you are not willing to eat turkey alone.

[LesPalenik]

This is spreading wrong information, based in ignorance. Even you should be able to figure out that gatherings promote the spreading of infection. On the 1st wave countries got caught unawares and reacted too late. But it was the lockdown in March and April that flattened the curve.

The 2nd wave in Europe is a consequence of summer vacations and travel. The number of cases is higher now, but by a combination of selected lockdowns by region and doctors knowing to treat the disease better, the curve is starting to come down slowly.

In Portugal, 68% of new cases happen in the contrext of large family and friends gatherings. Must be similar in many countries. I am perfectly willing not to have family gatherings over Christmas, because that will save lifes.

I am sorry you are not willing to eat turkey alone.

The infections are rising almost everywhere. Canadian residents didn't travel much to other countries this summer and fall, yet in the last two weeks the infections are on the rise with new records broken almost every day. That could be due to the colder weather and more people exposing themselves to others indoors.