Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa

[kers]

What's wrong with the stone age?  You'd burn wood in your cave and have light and warmth at the same time.  You could even BBQ mammoth chops at the same time.

Nothing wrong with the Stone Age as long you are Alan Flintstone.... and don't need vaccines

Here an example how to deal with energy when it is not needed directly:

http://euanmearns.com/el-hierro-another-model-for-a-sustainable-energy-future/
Just pump water up to a higher level en let go when you need electricity.

I don't know about the efficiency for pumping up water, but the Kaplanturbines you need to change the water pressure energy to electricity have an efficiency above 90%.

[faberryman]

Senator Patrick Leahy, the longest-serving Democrat, will preside over Trump’s impeachment trial.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/25/us/politics/patrick-leahy-trump-impeachment.html

[Alan Klein]

This is a large industrial facility which liquefies air to store large amount of energy for short time intervals or up to 3 months. The video is only 25 minutes long, well worth watching.
It can also capture CO2 which can be sold as a byproduct for industrial uses or even for production of beer. Very green concept, without any pollution.

When I was doing energy conservation in the 70's and 80's, one of the methods being planned was to create ice during cheaper electric rates at night.  Then during the daytime, use that ice for air conditioning a high rise office building in NYC.  The problem was you needed huge areas to store the ice and that cost too much in prime real estate limited Manhattan.  There must have been other issues because it never caught on in other geographic areas either.   

The problem with many methods, including solar and wind, and capturing CO2, is that there are so many other related costs, it becomes technically impractical in most applications.  Or the cost-benefit just isn't as high as claimed.  With Biden, I'm sure there are going to be a lot of companies starting up to see if they can get government financing for their clean energy dreams.  There are billions in them thar hills.  I don't believe in the government selecting winners and losers.  Let the free market work it out.  It's more efficient and practical and costs less.  Plus we're broke.

[LesPalenik]

When I was doing energy conservation in the 70's and 80's, one of the methods being planned was to create ice during cheaper electric rates at night.  Then during the daytime, use that ice for air conditioning a high rise office building in NYC.  The problem was you needed huge areas to store the ice and that cost too much in prime real estate limited Manhattan.  There must have been other issues because it never caught on in other geographic areas either.   

The problem with many methods, including solar and wind, and capturing CO2, is that there are so many other related costs, it becomes technically impractical in most applications.  Or the cost-benefit just isn't as high as claimed.  With Biden, I'm sure there are going to be a lot of companies starting up to see if they can get government financing for their clean energy dreams.  There are billions in them thar hills.  I don't believe in the government selecting winners and losers.  Let the free market work it out.  It's more efficient and practical and costs less.  Plus we're broke.

With the low cost of solar panels and improved efficiency of wind mills, you can design the electrical generating plant to cover the high-demand situation. Any excess electricity can then be used for other processes. In contrast to the ice example (which is simple and effective), the liquefied gas or air doesn't require very large storage tanks. By the way, a comparable Highview Power energy storage is half the cost of the Australian Hornsdale lithium battery by Tesla.   

[kers]

When I was doing energy conservation in the 70's and 80's, one of the methods being planned was to create ice during cheaper electric rates at night.  Then during the daytime, use that ice for air conditioning a high rise office building in NYC.  The problem was you needed huge areas to store the ice and that cost too much in prime real estate limited Manhattan.  There must have been other issues because it never caught on in other geographic areas either.   

The problem with many methods, including solar and wind, and capturing CO2, is that there are so many other related costs, it becomes technically impractical in most applications.  Or the cost-benefit just isn't as high as claimed.  With Biden, I'm sure there are going to be a lot of companies starting up to see if they can get government financing for their clean energy dreams.  There are billions in them thar hills.  I don't believe in the government selecting winners and losers.  Let the free market work it out.  It's more efficient and practical and costs less.  Plus we're broke.

The free market never cares about the pollution that there products produce. That cost is not included in the price and should be.
If you have a look at the electric engine of a car it is obvious how much simpler and smaller it is compared to a fuel engine; If you drive one - you find out how easy and silent it drives not to talk about its swift acceleration.
Then if you say that you don't want to be dependent on the golf states for gasoline; This is the way to go: Not even being dependent on any oil company; Less energy transport necessary ; Everybody makes its own clean energy.

[Alan Klein]

With the low cost of solar panels and improved efficiency of wind mills, you can design the electrical generating plant to cover the high-demand situation. Any excess electricity can then be used for other processes. In contrast to the ice example (which is simple and effective), the liquefied gas or air doesn't require very large storage tanks. By the way, a comparable Highview Power energy storage is half the cost of the Australian Hornsdale lithium battery by Tesla.   

Well I skimmed through their video.  By the way, the guy doing the interview talks to various groups of people who are in this industry.  There's another video that follows this one with another concept.

All these concepts are great.  But will they provide the results efficiently and cost effectively?  Just like the ice concept I mentioned and I have others that failed as well, theirs may not be practical either. 

I checked their site.  They have a small plant going up in Manchester to be complete in 2022 and another they are going to build in Vermont, just getting started.  But they have no plants actually used for storage.  I don't see any real results that are quantified in dollars and cents. How could there be?  They haven't built any yet. Until plants operate and you can see the savings, his claims are specious.  He's selling an idea and hoping for money from the government or private industry which he's getting to a small degree.  Good luck to him.  If you think he's going to make a lot of money, buy their stock if you can.  But I would be cautious.
https://highviewpower.com/plants/

[chez]

Everyone knew the situation and the protocol called for two shots because that's what the science says and the manufacturer's call for.  That's what the studies show.  Now, if they could get the second shot in 5 weeks, there wouldn't be an issue.  What if we have to wait a year?

You also didn't address their changing the protocol to include younger people who will draw off shots originally intended for older people.  Another non-study and procedure that's gumming up the works and preventing old people to get first shots. Why don't we just open it to everyone who can then go down to the clinics and punch each other out for a place in the line? 

Your argument also fails because you're speculating as to how long all this will take.  I don't think they really know what's going to happen and whether vaccines will be made in time.  They're winging it and hoping for the best.  It's all ad hoc and politically driven. Is that the way to run a ship?

Sorry to hear you are being screwed over by politics...again. I'm quite happy with the plan in my province...its following the known science behind Covid and is addressing the most at risk first...but they are delaying the second shot from the 21 days to 35 days in order to get the first shot into as many people as quickly as they can.

It's too bad everything in the US seems to be politically driven.

[chez]

I don't know when I can get my vaccine. In due course when vaccine is available and others at the front of the line have gotten theirs.

You would think we would hear more from our right wing friends about why the government should be in the business of deciding who gets the vaccine when. Alan wants the government to stay out of everything except him getting his vaccine first.

Yeh, Alan appears to like it that the government is picking up the tab for the vaccine. Maybe they should have let the free market decide on the cost of the vaccine and let the bidding begin...

[Alan Klein]

The free market never cares about the pollution that there products produce. That cost is not included in the price and should be.
If you have a look at the electric engine of a car it is obvious how much simpler and smaller it is compared to a fuel engine; If you drive one - you find out how easy and silent it drives not to talk about its swift acceleration.
Then if you say that you don't want to be dependent on the golf states for gasoline; This is the way to go: Not even being dependent on any oil company; Less energy transport necessary ; Everybody makes its own clean energy.

But the free market is creating opportunities for clean energy.  No one wants to breathe foul air or drink polluted water.  I don't. Machines that operate efficiently not only reduce pollution but save money for the operator.  Washing machines and other appliances have that Energy Star labels on them to let buyers know they're going to save money on power with these more efficient machines.  Reducing power reduces energy and pollution to create it.  The only thing that was holding electric cars back was battery storage for longer runs before recharging and the high cost of them. Now that issue seems to be getting resolved, they'll be a greater market for these cars.

The thing we have to be careful about is letting the government choose winners and losers.  If they select certain concepts over others and finance them, a huge mistake could be made.  A lot of it is political in nature which is a terrible way to advance technology.  You could go off on the wrong track for years before you realize there was a better way.   Better systems are developed when the free market organically selects the best methods. 

Look at the space business today.  That was one area I thought the government was better at and we should keep, publically funding rockets through NASA.  But I was wrong.  Even there, Space X, Elon Musk, and the others in the free private market are doing a better job to make efficient rockets that cost far less than government sponsored rockets.  Look how Musk's brings the main boosters back to earth to re-use. Even in the rarified air of space, private, free market works better.

[Manoli]

I hope Biden keeps up the pressure that Trump started with tariffs and other economic trade issues.

You really don't know what you're talking about.

And you do ?

[Alan Klein]

Yeh, Alan appears to like it that the government is picking up the tab for the vaccine. Maybe they should have let the free market decide on the cost of the vaccine and let the bidding begin...

The government doesn't pick up the tab.   Taxpayers do.  The government earns no money. They take our money and spend it. I believe the US government set aside around $25 billion for the vaccines.  The truth brigade I'm sure will provide the exact amount. So that's about $75 per person for 330 million Americans.  Since I believe children won't get it, let's round that off to $100 per person.

Second, the results of this campaign aren't in yet.  Assuming everyone gets vaccinated and is protected is a bridge too far at this time.  You're supposing everything goes right.  Meanwhile, we're already hearing there are major problems with supply and distribution.  Remember, the free market supplies services more efficiently and at a lower cost than the government.  Vaccines aren't different.  If the government didn't get involved, the free market would have handled it.  Frankly, I think more efficiently than the government.  All that would have happened is that the manufacturer would have sold directly to the states, something Democratic Gov Cuomo wanted to do but was turned down by the manufacturers probably because of commitments to the Federal government.  I applaud him for thinking out of the box. 

I'd suggest you don't count your chickens until they hatch.

[Alan Klein]

And you do ?

I agree that Trump didn't finish what he set out to do -  make trade fairer with China and stop them from stealing our intellectual property. He didn't win re-election to see if he could finish it.   So now the baton is handed off to the Biden administration.  I hope he can finish the project and win the race.  Rather than knocking Trump for trying, what do you think Biden should do differently?  After all, the ball is in his court now so it's up to him to make things better for America. 

[LesPalenik]

Well I skimmed through their video.  By the way, the guy doing the interview talks to various groups of people who are in this industry.  There's another video that follows this one with another concept.

All these concepts are great.  But will they provide the results efficiently and cost effectively?  Just like the ice concept I mentioned and I have others that failed as well, theirs may not be practical either. 

I checked their site.  They have a small plant going up in Manchester to be complete in 2022 and another they are going to build in Vermont, just getting started.  But they have no plants actually used for storage.  I don't see any real results that are quantified in dollars and cents. How could there be?  They haven't built any yet. Until plants operate and you can see the savings, his claims are specious.  He's selling an idea and hoping for money from the government or private industry which he's getting to a small degree.  Good luck to him.  If you think he's going to make a lot of money, buy their stock if you can.  But I would be cautious.
https://highviewpower.com/plants/

I'm glad that you looked finally at that video. You are right, Zac who is doing the interviewing, is part of the Zac and Jesse team on the Disruptive Investing youtube channel and they have there many interesting, videos about the state-of-the-art projects and technologies. Here is their youtube channel:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCTuFDdZdVXgfeZAxTubID0g/videos

The liquefied gas energy terminals are just starting to get developed. Here is an article about a similar project in Ensenada, Mexico:
https://www.bv.com/projects/first-lng-terminal-north-americas-pacific-coast-delivering-natural-gas-customers-mexico
 
 

[faberryman]

The government doesn't pick up the tab.   Taxpayers do.  The government earns no money. They take our money and spend it. I believe the US government set aside around $25 billion for the vaccines.  The truth brigade I'm sure will provide the exact amount. So that's about $75 per person for 330 million Americans.  Since I believe children won't get it, let's round that off to $100 per person.

Second, the results of this campaign aren't in yet.  Assuming everyone gets vaccinated and is protected is a bridge too far at this time.  You're supposing everything goes right.  Meanwhile, we're already hearing there are major problems with supply and distribution.  Remember, the free market supplies services more efficiently and at a lower cost than the government.  Vaccines aren't different.  If the government didn't get involved, the free market would have handled it.  Frankly, I think more efficiently than the government.  All that would have happened is that the manufacturer would have sold directly to the states, something Democratic Gov Cuomo wanted to do but was turned down by the manufacturers probably because of commitments to the Federal government.  I applaud him for thinking out of the box.

It seems to me the government is leaving a lot of money on the table. Why not auction off the vaccine, with the opening bid set a the cost of acquisition. The government could use the profit to pay down the national debt. Stipulate that no bidder could acquire more than x% of the vaccine so no monopoly is created. The winning bidders could set the price of a vaccination, and determine if anyone should get to go to the head of the line. Let the market decide.

[chez]

The government doesn't pick up the tab.   Taxpayers do.  The government earns no money. They take our money and spend it. I believe the US government set aside around $25 billion for the vaccines.  The truth brigade I'm sure will provide the exact amount. So that's about $75 per person for 330 million Americans.  Since I believe children won't get it, let's round that off to $100 per person.

Second, the results of this campaign aren't in yet.  Assuming everyone gets vaccinated and is protected is a bridge too far at this time.  You're supposing everything goes right.  Meanwhile, we're already hearing there are major problems with supply and distribution.  Remember, the free market supplies services more efficiently and at a lower cost than the government.  Vaccines aren't different.  If the government didn't get involved, the free market would have handled it.  Frankly, I think more efficiently than the government.  All that would have happened is that the manufacturer would have sold directly to the states, something Democratic Gov Cuomo wanted to do but was turned down by the manufacturers probably because of commitments to the Federal government.  I applaud him for thinking out of the box. 

I'd suggest you don't count your chickens until they hatch.

Maybe the man in charge at the top had no idea what he was doing regarding the handling of Covid...and now the handling of the vaccine. Trump's ONLY concern this past year was his re-election which he miserably failed at. He did not give a rat's ass about Covid nor about getting prepared to vaccinate 360 million people efficiently.

And don't go spouting off that it was Trump that made the vaccine happen so quickly because it really wasn't. The science behind this vaccine existed for many years and it failed in previous try's for different viruses...but luck had it, it worked for the Covid virus. Why do you think so many indipendent places came out with the vaccine basically at the same time...they all used this same existing science.

[PeterAit]

It is mind-boggling the amount of stuff that Alan "knows" that isn't actually true.

No, really  ? You must be joshing me.

[LesPalenik]

It seems to me the government is leaving a lot of money on the table. Why not auction off the vaccine, with the opening bid set a the cost of acquisition. The government could use the profit to pay do the national debt. The winning bidder could set the price of a vaccination, and determine if anyone should get to go to the head of the line. Let the market decide.

Good thing that Martin Shkreli, at one time the CEO of Turing Pharmaeuticals and the notorious “pharma bro,” who jacked up the cost of the lifesaving drug Daraprim by 5,000 percent is still in jail, so he can't get into the C19 vaccine business. 

[chez]

I agree that Trump didn't finish what he set out to do -  make trade fairer with China and stop them from stealing our intellectual property. He didn't win re-election to see if he could finish it.   So now the baton is handed off to the Biden administration.  I hope he can finish the project and win the race.  Rather than knocking Trump for trying, what do you think Biden should do differently?  After all, the ball is in his court now so it's up to him to make things better for America.

Here is a report card from Forbes on Trump's tariff based approach to dealing with China trade.


"Donald Trump may believe his trade agenda is a success, but a new analysis gives his administration’s trade policies poor marks. The analysis finds the Trump administration’s policy of raising tariffs and misusing U.S. trade laws have harmed consumers, disrupted supply chains and failed to achieve objectives that are important to the United States."



https://www.forbes.com/sites/stuartanderson/2020/10/29/trump-trade-policy-gets-failing-grades/

[Alan Klein]

I'm glad that you looked finally at that video. You are right, Zac who is doing the interviewing, is part of the Zac and Jesse team on the Disruptive Investing youtube channel and they have there many interesting, videos about the state-of-the-art projects and technologies. Here is their youtube channel:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCTuFDdZdVXgfeZAxTubID0g/videos

The liquefied gas energy terminals are just starting to get developed. Here is an article about a similar project in Ensenada, Mexico:
https://www.bv.com/projects/first-lng-terminal-north-americas-pacific-coast-delivering-natural-gas-customers-mexico
 
 

Interesting channel.  Disruptive technologies! Maybe someone will develop a way to shoot and process pictures electronically so we don't have to handle all those smelly film chemicals. 

[Alan Klein]

Maybe the man in charge at the top had no idea what he was doing regarding the handling of Covid...and now the handling of the vaccine. Trump's ONLY concern this past year was his re-election which he miserably failed at. He did not give a rat's ass about Covid nor about getting prepared to vaccinate 360 million people efficiently.

And don't go spouting off that it was Trump that made the vaccine happen so quickly because it really wasn't. The science behind this vaccine existed for many years and it failed in previous try's for different viruses...but luck had it, it worked for the Covid virus. Why do you think so many indipendent places came out with the vaccine basically at the same time...they all used this same existing science.

You can't have it both ways.  You guys said Trump will never get the vaccine ready by the end of 2020.  You said it won't be until the Spring, at least.  Now you're twisting it claiming the science was there, yada yada. He got lucky. 

Warp Speed worked.  Would it really hurt your ego to admit it?