Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa

[faberryman]

Just plainly false.

It is mind-boggling the amount of stuff that Alan "knows" that isn't actually true.

[kers]

You're putting your thumb on the scale.  Tell the whole story. Only 20% comes from wind (15%) and solar (5%).  By the way, don't they have to burn fossil fuels when the wind isn't blowing and it's cloudy? Also, did you know Germany's electric rates are 2 1/2 times as much as in the US because of all their green energy.  It would be cheaper to use candles. 

The whole stoy is that the EU produces .. repeat... see references...

about costs: the first personal computer was not cheap either, - it will take some time for prices to go down; Innovation comes with investments and subsequently costs.
Burning fuel is like burning Trees; The most basic way to deal with material- just burn it! and throw away all the extra qualities it has.
When all people would think like you we would still be in the stone age.

[LesPalenik]

You're putting your thumb on the scale.  Tell the whole story. Only 20% comes from wind (15%) and solar (5%).  By the way, don't they have to burn fossil fuels when the wind isn't blowing and it's cloudy? Also, did you know Germany's electric rates are 2 1/2 times as much as in the US because of all their green energy.  It would be cheaper to use candles. 

In the last two decades, the cost of batteries and solar panels has been steadily dropping - by the latest count by about 20%. As the old equipment is being refurbished or replaced, we should see significant improvements in the amount of electricity produced, and also in the cost reduction.
 

[Alan Klein]

The whole stoy is that the EU produces .. repeat... see references...

about costs: the first personal computer was not cheap either, - it will take some time for prices to go down; Innovation comes with investments and subsequently costs.
Burning fuel is like burning Trees; The most basic way to deal with material- just burn it! and throw away all the extra qualities it has.
When all people would think like you we would still be in the stone age.

What's wrong with the stone age?  You'd burn wood in your cave and have light and warmth at the same time.  You could even BBQ mammoth chops at the same time.

[Alan Klein]

In the last two decades, the cost of batteries and solar panels has been steadily dropping - by the latest count by about 20%. As the old equipment is being refurbished or replaced, we should see significant improvements in the amount of electricity produced, and also in the cost reduction.
 

Don't get me wrong.  I have no interest in fossil fuels.  If we could get electricity from abundant water, I'd be all for it.  But wind and solar only goes so far.  We need backup so the costs include backup facilities that stand idle while you're getting electricity from the wind. So even though solar and wind direct costs are dropping, those figures don't include the backup facilities.  As usual, they're playing games with the way they do the statistics. That's one of the reasons Germany's electricity costs are so high.  Another factor is they are now replacing all their wind machines, only twenty years after installation, although this program may be slowing down due to costs.  Are those end-of-life replacement costs figured into the 20% drop?  I did energy management as a profession and business for thirty years.  Most people don't figure in all the real costs.  Games with the statistics are played to show quicker payback to induce people to buy these systems.  But the paybacks  aren't honest. 

Also, currently, there's no cheap and efficient way to store it.  I read somewhere that it would take the Tesla battery factory, the largest in the world, 300 years of production to provide something like 1% of the world's storage needs for one day.   

[chez]

Because it is more important that old people get both shots since they are the most vulnerable.  In my town, 2/3 of the people who died were over 65.  20% not effective due to one shot of 2/3 is around 13% who would still die according to your figures. What's the point of giving younger people shots who aren't as vulnerable and will probably survive and let older people die?  Give the most vulnerable people both shots first.

All this is worsened by the fact they're including younger people in the same group as older people.  So the older people aren't even getting their first shot.  Younger people are getting their first shots first.  So it's double hurtful to the old. So many old people are not even getting the benefit on one shot.  How can you defend these policies?

Right...in the perfect world where we had endless supply of the vaccine and endless places to get the shot...we'd all be vaccinated by now. But we don't live in this world and we have a limited supply of vaccine...so is it better to give two vaccine shots to 1/2 the senior population, leaving the other half totally exposed, or is it better to give all the seniors 1 shot for now with maybe in 5 weeks followed up with the second shot? How would you feel if you were in the group that did not get any shot yet...but your neighbour already go two shots.

[faberryman]

All this is worsened by the fact they're including younger people in the same group as older people.  So the older people aren't even getting their first shot.  Younger people are getting their first shots first.  So it's double hurtful to the old. So many old people are not even getting the benefit on one shot.  How can you defend these policies?

What makes you so important that you get to go to the front of the line? Is your life really more important than the life of a little girl with a comorbidity, or even the life of a little girl with no comorbidity? Quit being so selfish. Honestly, your sense of entitlement is nauseating. Is it really "double hurtful" to you that a little girl with or without a comorbidity might get a vaccine before you? "Double hurtful"? WTF does that even mean? Whine, whine, whine. Me, me, me. I haven't gotten my shot yet. Do you hear me complaining about it? I think complainers ought to go to the end of the line. Who wants them around anyway.

[chez]

What makes you so important that you get to go to the front of the line? If I had a choice of giving my shot to an old guy with heart disease or a little girl with leukemia, I'd give it to the little girl with leukemia every time. Quit being so selfish. Honestly, your sense of entitlement is nauseating. Whine, whine, whine. Me, me, me. I haven't gotten my shot yet. Do you hear me complaining about it?

I'm scheduled for my shot sometimes in June. I'm fine with that as there is a plan in place and we just need to execute on it. I'm sick and tired of groups like teachers bitching that they should be the head of the line for shots...but how many teachers fell sick from Covid and how many died compared to the elderly.

[Robert Roaldi]

I really do not understand people like you who are psychologically opposed to solar and wind power. Why? Is it because they are "liberal" causes? Wouldn't any thinking human be delighted to have these become major energy sources, with no fuel costs and no greenhouse emissions?

I am sure that at the turn of the last century, blacksmiths could find stats proving that automobiles could never be successful replacements for horses. There are still people who think that cars from the 1960s were better than the cars of today. People choose to believe a lot of things for lots of different reasons.

There will be applications for which the burning of fossil fuels will continue to make sense and there will be others for which it will make no sense. And the mix will change over time. Using current data on prices for both oil and green equipment also makes no sense, as they are all part of feedback loops so that the prices of things today will not be the same 5 years from now. It wasn't that long ago that many people pompously predicted that "full-frame" sensors will never be the mainstream because of "physics". Well something changed, and it wasn't physics.

Nothing stays still. It is possible today to buy homes that use MUCH less energy than before because of a combination of better materials, better HVAC, better insulation, and off-grid local electricity generation. Hybrid cars are now comparable in price to mainstream cars and no less reliable, plug-in hybrids are almost there. These things could never work, some said, and yet there they are. And the more of them they make, the less they will cost. We have seen this pattern time and time and time again, it's not a particularly new phenomenon. Lots of people thought that dress shirts, ties and suits were the required uniform to do a professional job. How true was that?

[Alan Klein]

Right...in the perfect world where we had endless supply of the vaccine and endless places to get the shot...we'd all be vaccinated by now. But we don't live in this world and we have a limited supply of vaccine...so is it better to give two vaccine shots to 1/2 the senior population, leaving the other half totally exposed, or is it better to give all the seniors 1 shot for now with maybe in 5 weeks followed up with the second shot? How would you feel if you were in the group that did not get any shot yet...but your neighbour already go two shots.

Everyone knew the situation and the protocol called for two shots because that's what the science says and the manufacturer's call for.  That's what the studies show.  Now, if they could get the second shot in 5 weeks, there wouldn't be an issue.  What if we have to wait a year?

You also didn't address their changing the protocol to include younger people who will draw off shots originally intended for older people.  Another non-study and procedure that's gumming up the works and preventing old people to get first shots. Why don't we just open it to everyone who can then go down to the clinics and punch each other out for a place in the line? 

Your argument also fails because you're speculating as to how long all this will take.  I don't think they really know what's going to happen and whether vaccines will be made in time.  They're winging it and hoping for the best.  It's all ad hoc and politically driven. Is that the way to run a ship? 

[TechTalk]

I read somewhere that it would take the Tesla battery factory, the largest in the world, 300 years of production to provide something like 1% of the world's storage needs for one day.   

It's a good thing that they are not the only company producing batteries. There are many and more new companies, new expansions, and new battery technologies moving forward at an ever increasing rate.

Of course, batteries are only one of a variety of ways to store energy, including wind and solar. There are a variety of other means.

[LesPalenik]

Don't get me wrong.  I have no interest in fossil fuels.  If we could get electricity from abundant water, I'd be all for it.  But wind and solar only goes so far.  We need backup so the costs include backup facilities that stand idle while you're getting electricity from the wind. So even though solar and wind direct costs are dropping, those figures don't include the backup facilities.  As usual, they're playing games with the way they do the statistics. That's one of the reasons Germany's electricity costs are so high.  Another factor is they are now replacing all their wind machines, only twenty years after installation, although this program may be slowing down due to costs.  Are those end-of-life replacement costs figured into the 20% drop?  I did energy management as a profession and business for thirty years.  Most people don't figure in all the real costs.  Games with the statistics are played to show quicker payback to induce people to buy these systems.  But the paybacks  aren't honest. 

Also, currently, there's no cheap and efficient way to store it.  I read somewhere that it would take the Tesla battery factory, the largest in the world, 300 years of production to provide something like 1% of the world's storage needs for one day.   

The batteries are getting bigger and cheaper, but there are also new technologies to store large amounts of energy. Below is a link to a youtube video with CEO of Highview Power explaining the CRYOBattery, which could become the biggest batteries in grid scale storage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZ1efF6ntcM

[Alan Klein]

I'm scheduled for my shot sometimes in June. I'm fine with that as there is a plan in place and we just need to execute on it. I'm sick and tired of groups like teachers bitching that they should be the head of the line for shots...but how many teachers fell sick from Covid and how many died compared to the elderly.

We had a plan in place that was changed at the last minute.

In NJ, they're putting otherwise healthy people who smoke or vape in the highest group.  It's causing a lot of complaints.

Why June?  How old are you and where do you live?  In any case, good luck.

[faberryman]

Everyone knew the situation and the protocol called for two shots because that's what the science says and the manufacturer's call for.  That's what the studies show.  Now, if they could get the second shot in 5 weeks, there wouldn't be an issue.  What if we have to wait a year?

You also didn't address their changing the protocol to include younger people who will draw off shots originally intended for older people.  Another non-study and procedure that's gumming up the works and preventing old people to get first shots. Why don't we just open it to everyone who can then go down to the clinics and punch each other out for a place in the line? 

Your argument also fails because you're speculating as to how long all this will take.  I don't think they really know what's going to happen and whether vaccines will be made in time.  They're winging it and hoping for the best.  It's all ad hoc and politically driven. Is that the way to run a ship?

More whine, whine, whine, me, me, me.

And don't you find it priceless that Alan believes the experts when they say he should get his vaccine first?

[Alan Klein]

The batteries are getting bigger and cheaper, but there are also new technologies to store large amounts of energy. Below is a link to a youtube video with CEO of Highview Power explaining the CRYOBattery, which could become the biggest batteries in grid scale storage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZ1efF6ntcM

Can you sum up the point of the video and facts and figures? Using superlatives like "large amounts" and "biggest batteries" mean little. It reminds me of Trump's claims about his hands. 

[TechTalk]

Everyone knew the situation and the protocol called for two shots because that's what the science says and the manufacturer's call for.  That's what the studies show.  Now, if they could get the second shot in 5 weeks, there wouldn't be an issue.  What if we have to wait a year?

What if? What if we don't have to wait at all? Or, what if the virus miraculously disappears like the former guy in the White House suggested? Or, what if the new people in charge—who are driven by science, data, and a willingness to make changes as new data is acquired or events evolve—actually do a good job of management?

[TechTalk]

Why don't we just open it to everyone who can then go down to the clinics and punch each other out for a place in the line? 

That sounds much like a Trump inspired plan. At least, it sounds a lot like his last ditch attempt to remain in office.

[faberryman]

I'm scheduled for my shot sometimes in June. I'm fine with that as there is a plan in place and we just need to execute on it. I'm sick and tired of groups like teachers bitching that they should be the head of the line for shots...but how many teachers fell sick from Covid and how many died compared to the elderly.

I don't know when I can get my vaccine. In due course when vaccine is available and others at the front of the line have gotten theirs.

You would think we would hear more from our friends on the right about why the government should be in the business of deciding who gets the vaccine when. Alan wants the government to stay out of everything except him getting his vaccine first.

I don't believe in the government selecting winners and losers.  Let the free market work it out.

[LesPalenik]

Can you sum up the point of the video and facts and figures? Using superlatives like "large amounts" and "biggest batteries" mean little. It reminds me of Trump's claims about his hands.

This is a large industrial facility which liquefies air to store large amount of energy for short time intervals or up to 3 months. The video is only 25 minutes long, well worth watching.
It can also capture CO2 which can be sold as a byproduct for industrial uses or even for production of beer. Very green concept, without any pollution.

[faberryman]

I read somewhere that it would take the Tesla battery factory, the largest in the world, 300 years of production to provide something like 1% of the world's storage needs for one day.   

I read somewhere that Sasquatch is real. I just thought I would pass that on.

Oh, it is possible to build more battery factories if you need more batteries more quickly.