Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa

[Alan Klein]

Difficulty in tracing guns in the US: I wonder how many people know about this, . It's a 10 min film.

Tracing guns is largely a manual process since there is a legal prohibition of machine-searchable data base of gun owners. I don't know if this is federal only. It must make it difficult for law enforcement.

OK I watched this.  What is not clear, is that whenever there is a crime, within hours or a day, they know when and where the gun was bought and by who.  How does that happen if the records are as bad as the producer tried to make us believe in this video?   This last crime, they found out the shooter bought the guns after the knife seizing incident.  So there has to be some easy method where the police look up the serial number on the weapon to get the information.  The government record keeper says the information is transferred to a computer.  So there has to be a database of sorts.  Gun dealers keep information on who they sold he gun too. SO the police can get that info from the dealer once they know the serial number which is imprinted on each gun.

If someone sells a gun privately to a shooter, the trace will show the original buyer.  So there are no records of the new buyer. It was not clear in your video how the dealer plays a hand in all this.  If the computer shows the dealer against the serial number, than police call the dealer who has to keep records who he sold the gun to. 

The thing I don't like about the video is they play a lot of background shooting news incidents to frighten the viewer.  That has nothing to do with tracing guns.  The whole video is to make a biased point.  The police seem to get the info they need in a short time. At least on major crimes. 

Of course, the main problem is that most criminals don't buy guns legally.  And that's how many criminal deaths occur.  The guns are stolen originally or shipped from other states by illegal gun dealers.

[Alan Klein]

Your comments have little or nothing to do with the contents of that video but that's ok, I don't care if you didn't watch it. I don't post things here for you, that's a waste of time. I'll be generous in that maybe you're just trying to raise a different topic for discussion. Fair enough.

As for the whole mass shooting US gun thing, it's more than obvious by now that the US is such an outlier on this that there is no common ground for discussion. Gun sales are going to continue and people will be killed, there's nothing to be done about it so far as I can see. Basically, it's normal now, it's how you live. If you can live with kids being shot in schools every now and then, then so be it, good luck with those thoughts and prayers. Isn't it obvious by now that nobody is listening to those prayers?

Yes your video flagged to me an important issue of trying to stop the shooting before it happens.  Tracing is nice. But it's after the fact.  Hence my discussion of red flag laws.  I think those are important.  But they don't seem to help much.  Too many nut jobs fall through the cracks.  It turns out that my cousin's wife in NY  has a distant cousin who was one of the victims in this last shooting in Illinois.  I dont knwo who it was yet.  Such a small world. 

[Alan Klein]

OK I watched this.  What is not clear, is that whenever there is a crime, within hours or a day, they know when and where the gun was bought and by who.  How does that happen if the records are as bad as the producer tried to make us believe in this video?   This last crime, they found out the shooter bought the guns after the knife seizing incident.  So there has to be some easy method where the police look up the serial number on the weapon to get the information.  The government record keeper says the information is transferred to a computer.  So there has to be a database of sorts.  Gun dealers keep information on who they sold he gun too. SO the police can get that info from the dealer once they know the serial number which is imprinted on each gun.

If someone sells a gun privately to a shooter, the trace will show the original buyer.  So there are no records of the new buyer. It was not clear in your video how the dealer plays a hand in all this.  If the computer shows the dealer against the serial number, than police call the dealer who has to keep records who he sold the gun to. 

The thing I don't like about the video is they play a lot of background shooting news incidents to frighten the viewer.  That has nothing to do with tracing guns.  The whole video is to make a biased point.  The police seem to get the info they need in a short time. At least on major crimes. 

Of course, the main problem is that most criminals don't buy guns legally.  And that's how many criminal deaths occur.  The guns are stolen originally or shipped from other states by illegal gun dealers.

Here's an article on how they were able to trace the gun within hours to find the shooter before he killed again.  So the video is at odds with at least this situation.


CBS EVENING NEWS
Finding rifle was pivotal to capturing Highland Park parade shooting suspect, chief says
Finding the gun is what "set this investigation on a totally different trajectory," Jogmen said.

"In this case, we knew the make, the model, the serial number, and then we went through with the tracing process directly to the manufacturer," ATF special agent in charge Kristen de Tineo told CBS News.  All of that information allowed the ATF to identify the suspect.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/highland-park-parade-shooting-robert-crimo-gun/

[Peter McLennan]

You never provide backup to your claims just relying on insults.

And links.  Valid, verifiable links.  If you won’t read them, that’s on you.

[Alan Klein]

And links. Valid, verifiable links.  If you won’t read them, that’s on you.

Just provide links. The insults we all could do without.

[TechTalk]

Your comments have little or nothing to do with the contents of...

Pretending to reply to something, when the reply has nothing whatever to do with what's quoted is habitual. The disingenuous, and sometimes dishonest, pretense of those replies is an insult to the person being quoted.

[digitaldog]

OK I watched this.  What is not clear, ....

Enough said!
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein

[PeterAit]

Funny? Or sad.

[TechTalk]

Funny? Or sad.

Both! It's also frightening that there are still millions of gullible people that don't recognize that he's a sociopathic con man and a threat to democracy and would vote for him again!

[Alan Klein]

Funny? Or sad.

Both! It's also frightening that there are still millions of gullible people that don't recognize that he's a sociopathic con man and a threat to democracy and would vote for him again!

Problem is the current president is senile.

[marvpelkey]

Did a quick cursory search, so this may be a bit off.

Since the year of the birth of my grand-daughter (9 years old, U.S. resident), she has lived within 50 miles (a few quite a bit closer) of six mass shootings (31 dead, 105 injured). Didn't even try to compile those a bit outside that radius and deaths/injuries less than 4, holy smokes....

And yet, the U.S. addiction to, and lust for, high powered weaponry continues unabated. The latest dismal attempt by Congress is a bit like putting a Baby on Board placard on your vehicle and actually expecting the other drivers to change their driving habits.

Man, you Americans.......

Marv

[Alan Klein]

Did a quick cursory search, so this may be a bit off.

Since the year of the birth of my grand-daughter (9 years old, U.S. resident), she has lived within 50 miles (a few quite a bit closer) of six mass shootings (31 dead, 105 injured). Didn't even try to compile those a bit outside that radius and deaths/injuries less than 4, holy smokes....

And yet, the U.S. addiction to, and lust for, high powered weaponry continues unabated. The latest dismal attempt by Congress is a bit like putting a Baby on Board placard on your vehicle and actually expecting the other drivers to change their driving habits.

Man, you Americans.......

Marv

What is high powered weaponry.  A tank?  Mortar?  Artillery?  A-bomb?

In any case, Congress is limited by our Constitution.  Until it is changed, Congress can not write legislation superseding it. 

[marvpelkey]

Please Alan Klein, don't troll me. I am not interested in getting into it with you.

It's quite obvious what I meant.

And Congress really can do substantially more than they have, if they wish.

Marv

[TechTalk]

And yet, the U.S. addiction to, and lust for, high powered weaponry continues unabated. The latest dismal attempt by Congress is a bit like putting a Baby on Board placard on your vehicle and actually expecting the other drivers to change their driving habits.

Man, you Americans.......

Marv

Americans... We're Nuts! On the one hand, we've been sold a BS story about the sacred right of easy gun ownership. On the other hand; we've been conned to believe that we have no right to health care, including mental health care! Many citizens of the United States, who are in need of mental health care, find themselves either homeless or in prison due to their disease.

So, we are a nation with an abundance of over armed and under treated people in need of psychiatric care. Now, tell me that isn't nuts!

[Alan Klein]

Please Alan Klein, don't troll me. I am not interested in getting into it with you.

It's quite obvious what I meant.

And Congress really can do substantially more than they have, if they wish.

Marv

Youy're being rude.  I gave you my opinion. 

[Alan Klein]

Americans... We're Nuts! On the one hand, we've been sold a BS story about the sacred right of easy gun ownership. On the other hand; we've been conned to believe that we have no right to health care, including mental health care! Many citizens of the United States, who are in need of mental health care, find themselves either homeless or in prison due to their disease.

So, we are a nation with an abundance of over armed and under treated people in need of psychiatric care. Now, tell me that isn't nuts!

But we do spend a lot on mental health. Also, many people who need help avoid it. They go off their meds.  They continue to drink and drug to excess and don't want the help they need.  They commit crimes and don't even remember they did it. 

My wife spent her career as a special ed teacher working one on one in public schools with challenged children.  She would recommend to some parents that they give their children extra special education.  The parents refused telling her there's nothing wrong with their kids.  So you get a kid like in the last massacre who grows up to maturity and shoots everyone.  He was someone who obviously needed a lot of mental health care earlier.  Where were the parents? Government can only do so much.  There are lots of services available from the Federal and state governments that people don't take advantage of.

Spending on mental health treatment and services reached $225 billion in 2019, according to an Open Minds Market Intelligence Report. That number, which is up 52% since 2009, includes spending on things like therapy and prescription medications as well as stays in psychiatric or substance abuse rehabilitation facilities.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/05/10/cost-and-accessibility-of-mental-health-care-in-america.html

[Alan Klein]

Also, the problem is made extra worse by the breakdown of the family structure over the past few decades.  This kid's parents had major problems of their own.  They were split up and could barely help themselves, much less their kid.  This has become common in America and mental health programs are not going to help much.  We have to invigorate the family structure again. It's sorely dysfunctional for many of them. 

Robert Crimo’s mom once assaulted his dad with shoe, screwdriver: cops
HIGHLAND PARK, Ill. — The mom of the accused Highland Park Fourth of July shooter once pleaded guilty to leaving him in a hot car for 27 minutes when he was just 2 years old — and assaulted his dad with a shoe and screwdriver, a newly released police report showed.

The hot car incident, which occurred in 2002, was one of multiple encounters Robert Crimo III’s parents — Robert Crimo Jr. and Denise Pesina — had with law enforcement during his upbringing in the wealthy Chicago suburb.

Cops were called to the family’s Highland Park home at least nine times between 2010 and 2014 for various domestic violence incidents, including ones where Pesina hit her husband with her shoe and a screwdriver, the police reports showed.
https://nypost.com/2022/07/08/highland-park-gunman-robert-crimos-mom-once-assaulted-his-dad-with-shoe-screwdriver-cops-mom-assaulted-dad/

[digitaldog]

Please Alan Klein, don't troll me.

He can't help himself.

[digitaldog]

My wife spent her career as a special ed teacher working one on one in public schools with challenged children. 

Not husbands 😢

[Peter McLennan]

Youy're being rude.  I gave you my opinion.

You did not give your ‘opinion’.  You asked an obviously trolling question followed by another of your assertions.

marvpelky’s response was appropriate and polite.