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Author Topic: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa  (Read 268100 times)

digitaldog

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #13700 on: January 20, 2022, 02:51:24 pm »

I'm out and I regret taking part.
That's the only way to avoid fools and get them to start their own threads to get their much needed attention from newbies.
If you want to teach fools, I say don't waste your time! If you say I will learn something from fools then I say you are a fool!” ― Mehmet Murat ildan
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #13701 on: January 20, 2022, 03:30:47 pm »

Well, you are right in that the election rules we have had for ages have been successful at preventing any non-trivial fraud. No one is proposing to do away with them.  What the GOP wants is to add new rules and procedures with the blatantly obvious purpose of reducing the votes of likely Dem supporters. The voting rights bill currently stalled in Congress is just that, a rights bill, that will prevent the states from enacting such things. But the GOP senators are in lock-step against it.
No one was prevented from voting before.  There are already laws on the books to prevent discrimation. In fact, many new ways opens voting to mail-in votes so it's easier than ever to vote. 

But there has to be certain standards such as regsitering to vote to priove who you are, that you;re a citizen and not just an illegal.  NYC's democratic mayor is already finagling by opening voting to non-citizens for local municipal votes.  How will they stop these people from voting in state and federal elections as these are done at the same time?  So we already see finagling being done by the democrats. 

AS far as registering, you only have to do that once in your life. How is that discriminatory?   Democrats want to do away with that as well as allowing "harvesting" votes.    All this is about is to give Democrats legroom to finagle and do things like harvesting.  We had that here in NJ just a few miles from where I live where they caught candidates sending inn phony mail-in votes.   

This law is not about discrimination.,  It's about giving Democrats a chance to be in power for ever.

Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #13702 on: January 20, 2022, 03:39:53 pm »

You should not scold Germany and other European countries for trying to "go green" and then complain that their dependence on Russian natural gas is a big problem.
First off, nothing's stopping Europe from buying natural gas from us or other western states.  But the point is Germany's and others reliance on Russian gas makes it very difficult for NATO to be strong against Russian expansion into Ukraine.  Frankly, we've done the same thing with China. We're overly reliant on them for much of the goods we need. 

Maybe we should look at the glass being half full rather than half empty.  It works both ways.  If Russia stirs up too much trouble, and pull their gas supplies, they get hurt economically as well.  Maybe the co-dependence will produce cooler heads on both sides. We'll see pretty soon.

Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #13703 on: January 20, 2022, 03:41:05 pm »

Cool! Awesome! Alan is in favor of socialized medicine!!
Well, let's not get carried away. :)

Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #13704 on: January 20, 2022, 03:45:16 pm »

Here's some mildly good news that's a few days old now. Maybe not all Republicans are insane after all, https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/18/politics/trump-administration-officials-against-former-boss-2022/index.html, as some seem to be working to rid themselves of the anti-democratic legacy of the previous kleptocracy. :)
I frankly would love to see Trump go away.  I think he helped lose Georgia senators to the Democrats because of his shenanigans.  We don't need more of that in 2022 and 2024.  Like I've said, a younger leader, with executive experience that could be attractive to all sides would be preferable.

digitaldog

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #13705 on: January 20, 2022, 05:29:08 pm »

Hogwash, Alan.  They work to counter the ongoing vote-limiting actions of Republicans.
How about how Republicans tried:
Updated 5:16 PM ET, Thu January 20, 2022
Quote
Trump campaign officials, led by Rudy Giuliani, oversaw efforts in December 2020 to put forward illegitimate electors from seven states that Trump lost, according to three sources with direct knowledge of the scheme.
The sources said members of former President Donald Trump's campaign team were far more involved than previously known in the plan, a core tenet of the broader plot to overturn President Joe Biden's victory when Congress counted the electoral votes on January 6.
Giuliani and his allies coordinated the nuts-and-bolts of the process on a state-by-state level, the sources told CNN. One source said there were multiple planning calls between Trump campaign officials and GOP state operatives, and that Giuliani participated in at least one call. The source also said the Trump campaign lined up supporters to fill elector slots, secured meeting rooms in statehouses for the fake electors to meet on December 14, 2020, and circulated drafts of fake certificates that were ultimately sent to the National Archives.

Again I have to love the irony of: Lock her up?
I think he helped lose Georgia senators to the Democrats because of his shenanigans. 
He thinks? Really????
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digitaldog

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #13706 on: January 20, 2022, 07:33:05 pm »

This explains a lot about who here voted for Trump:
Quote
Many college Republicans didn’t vote for Trump in 2020. His racist rhetoric may be why.
Since the nation’s voters have been increasingly divided by education — with the college-educated identifying less as Republicans and those without college moving away from Democrats — we wanted to know whether that was also true for Trump’s share of the young. We found that young Republicans with a college degree were least likely to vote for Trump, while young Republicans without a college education gave him their votes. Young college Republicans seem to have been turned away by the former president’s rhetoric on race
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/01/20/diploma-divide-republicans-midterms/
Indeed, racist rhetoric.... And more. 🥵
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Peter McLennan

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #13707 on: January 20, 2022, 07:43:27 pm »

"I love the poorly educated!"
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digitaldog

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Peter McLennan

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #13709 on: January 20, 2022, 08:53:27 pm »

And they love him....
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2016/02/24/donald-trump-nevada-poorly-educated/80860078/
We will likely here from one very soon.  ;)

That's where that quote came from.  I love the two sons clapping in the BG.
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digitaldog

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #13710 on: January 21, 2022, 04:15:36 pm »

Amazing how far this guy would go to cheat:
Quote
A draft of an executive order prepared for then-President Donald Trump and obtained Friday by Politico would have authorized the secretary of defense to send National Guard troops to seize voting machines around the country in the weeks following the 2020 election.
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PeterAit

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #13711 on: January 22, 2022, 04:13:00 pm »

No one was prevented from voting before.  There are already laws on the books to prevent discrimation. In fact, many new ways opens voting to mail-in votes so it's easier than ever to vote. 


Well, that's the point! The existing laws made it relatively easy for legitimate voters to vote while preventing fraud. So why do we need new restrictions as are being proposed, or already have been enacted, in GOP-led states? To reduce Dem votes of course.


But there has to be certain standards such as regsitering to vote to priove who you are, that you;re a citizen and not just an illegal.  NYC's democratic mayor is already finagling by opening voting to non-citizens for local municipal votes.  How will they stop these people from voting in state and federal elections as these are done at the same time?  So we already see finagling being done by the democrats. 


No one is proposing doing away with registration. No one is proposing that illegal aliens be allowed to vote. But it seems perfectly legit for legal non-citizen residents to vote in local elections (not for congress or president though). After all they pay taxes and work and live there, send their kids to school, etc. And seeing that they vote only in local elections is the simplest thing and essentially the same thing is done all over the country. How is it "finagling?" That's a phony worry invented by the GOP.

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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #13712 on: January 22, 2022, 09:26:33 pm »

Well, that's the point! The existing laws made it relatively easy for legitimate voters to vote while preventing fraud. So why do we need new restrictions as are being proposed, or already have been enacted, in GOP-led states? To reduce Dem votes of course.

No one is proposing doing away with registration. No one is proposing that illegal aliens be allowed to vote. But it seems perfectly legit for legal non-citizen residents to vote in local elections (not for congress or president though). After all they pay taxes and work and live there, send their kids to school, etc. And seeing that they vote only in local elections is the simplest thing and essentially the same thing is done all over the country. How is it "finagling?" That's a phony worry invented by the GOP.


First off, election rules have always been determined in each of the 50 states.  The new rules will federalize this an take away state rights.
 For example, some states allow ex-convicts to vote, others don't. The new bill will force all states to allow former felons to vote.  That's not acceptable to many states.

The new bill does not require ID's. That will open to all kinds of fraud.  It will also allow automatic switchover of DMV to voting rolls.  Well, not everyone who has a license is a citizen.  The democrats want all non-citizens to vote, not just in local elections.  The bill will allow electioneering in sight of the voting booths which is outlawed even in my liberal democratic states of NJ and NY.  Yet the new law will allow it.  It will allow representatives to work with voters to help them complete the forms.  That will allow Democrats to visit old people in nursing homes and check off the Democrats boxes.  Currently, it's against state laws in most states because fraud is going on if that happens. 

This has nothing to do with allowing blacks to vote.  Which blacks don't vote who want to? That excuse is a fig leaf for Democrats trying to gain the vote forever by finagling.  Today it's easier than ever to vote especially by mail.  Of course, the Democrats want to allow mail in votes to count passed election day.  That would give them the chance to suddenly mail in a couple of thousand extra votes when they only lost by that much.  They would go around collecting and getting votes from those who didn't vote when they should have on or before election day.  It's a game.  Democrats want to legalize cheating. 

digitaldog

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #13713 on: January 22, 2022, 10:11:41 pm »

Peter, as we by now both know, what you were just told would make perfect sense if you suspend all rational thought.
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Peter McLennan

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #13714 on: January 22, 2022, 11:00:20 pm »

Blatant copy and paste from the NYT:

Article 1, Section 4 states that “the Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by Law make or alter such Regulations, except as to the Places of choosing Senators.”

Or, as Justice Antonin Scalia — quoting a previous ruling — argued in 2013 in his opinion for the court in Arizona v. Inter Tribal Council of Arizona, “The power of Congress over the ‘Times, Places and Manner’ of congressional elections ‘is paramount, and may be exercised at any time, and to any extent which it deems expedient; and so far as it is exercised, and no farther, the regulations effected supersede those of the State which are inconsistent therewith.’”

The legal scholar Pamela S. Karlan put it this way in a 2006 report on the Voting Rights Act: “The Supreme Court’s recent decisions under the elections clause have confirmed the longstanding interpretation of the clause as a grant of essentially plenary authority.” In other words, Congress has absolute, unbending power to regulate federal elections as it sees fit.

For this reason among many, it has been strange to see Republican politicians — including some self-described “constitutional conservatives” — denounce the Democrats’ proposed new voting rights legislation as an illegitimate “federal takeover” of federal elections.


https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/21/opinion/constitution-voting-rights.html
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #13715 on: January 23, 2022, 09:51:28 am »

Blatant copy and paste from the NYT:

Article 1, Section 4 states that “the Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by Law make or alter such Regulations, except as to the Places of choosing Senators.”

Or, as Justice Antonin Scalia — quoting a previous ruling — argued in 2013 in his opinion for the court in Arizona v. Inter Tribal Council of Arizona, “The power of Congress over the ‘Times, Places and Manner’ of congressional elections ‘is paramount, and may be exercised at any time, and to any extent which it deems expedient; and so far as it is exercised, and no farther, the regulations effected supersede those of the State which are inconsistent therewith.’”

The legal scholar Pamela S. Karlan put it this way in a 2006 report on the Voting Rights Act: “The Supreme Court’s recent decisions under the elections clause have confirmed the longstanding interpretation of the clause as a grant of essentially plenary authority.” In other words, Congress has absolute, unbending power to regulate federal elections as it sees fit.

For this reason among many, it has been strange to see Republican politicians — including some self-described “constitutional conservatives” — denounce the Democrats’ proposed new voting rights legislation as an illegitimate “federal takeover” of federal elections.


https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/21/opinion/constitution-voting-rights.html

The federal government has too much power as it is. As a Federal republic, States are very protective of their rights even if the constitution gives the national government the power to adjust them. It's why election rules haven't changed for the most part in 230 years, that each state makes them.  The national government in Washington is made up of representatives of 50 independent states which have their own state representatives and state senators with their own power and rights.  Those rights are jealous guarded by the individual representative and senators in the state legislatures.  The voters and the representatives in each of the states' legislatures guard their powers as well.  They want to be in charge of their own state regulations.  They want to define election districts and election rules. 

Additionally there are laws that prohibit unequal voting rights.  I just don't see the argument that blacks don't have the wherewithal to become voters like white people do.  Especially today when you can vote by mail.   

There's another issue.  I believe states can still do what they want for local elections.  To Federalize all election rules, it would be turning state power over to the Feds to regulate local elections.  It would become impossible to have two sets of elections - one for federal officials and one for state and local officials.  They're both done at the same time for the most part. So the Fed would be taking away control in areas the constitution didn't intend.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2022, 09:56:24 am by Alan Klein »
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digitaldog

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #13716 on: January 23, 2022, 01:14:24 pm »

Peter, as we by now both know, what you were just told would make perfect sense if you suspend all rational thought.
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #13717 on: January 23, 2022, 01:24:35 pm »

The federal government has too much power as it is. ...

The South will Rise Again!   :)
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LesPalenik

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #13718 on: January 23, 2022, 03:00:31 pm »

Things are not so bad.
A professor at the Wharton business school asked her students what the average American earns and 25% guessed it was over $100,000. One said it was $800,000.
The correct number is $45,000.
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Chris Kern

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #13719 on: January 23, 2022, 05:30:23 pm »

A professor at the Wharton business school asked her students what the average American earns and 25% guessed it was over $100,000. One said it was $800,000.
The correct number is $45,000.

Are you certain they were students at Wharton and not Trump University?
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