Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa

[Alan Klein]

No, she's not against Trump. She's pro-truth. She voted with Trump 92% of the time. Now, because she refuses to kow-tow to Trump's stolen election BS she is being pilloried. Her standing up for truth is admirable, but it's a damn low bar for heroine status. And let's remember that her overall voting record is pretty dismal.

She voted to impeach the president of her own party.
You don't do those things especially when you're a leader within that party as she was.

[kers]

you misunderstood my post. I didn't argue that I agreed with Trump. I was trying to point out the double standard in the Press of reporting news when Admirals and Generals give their opinions.

 It appears that as long as they agree with your Viewpoint, then they're perfectly within their rights to say what they believe. But if they say what you don't agree with, then it's mutiny. May I remind you that in both cases, the officers are retired and constitutionally free to give their opinion about their commander-in-chief.

Problem is they use their military history to give weight to their voice to deny the fact of the outcome of the election.
They support to feed the public with lies.

[kers]

She voted to impeach the president of her own party.
You don't do those things especially when you're a leader within that party as she was.

You do that if a lying lunatic as Trump forces other partymembers to support blatant lies that undermine the constitution and basic democratic values of the US.
These are values are far more important than being a loyal Republican.

[Alan Klein]

Problem is they use their military history to give weight to their voice to deny the fact of the outcome of the election.
They support to feed the public with lies.

they're giving their opinion just as your side gives a different opinion. Free speech belongs to both sides. 

You do believe in free speech,  don't you?

[Alan Klein]

You do that if a lying lunatic as Trump forces other partymembers to support blatant lies that undermine the constitution and basic democratic values of the US.
These are values are far more important than being a loyal Republican.

Hillary Clinton claimed she was cheated out of the presidency. For years she complained. Did that undermine basic democratic values and the constitution?  Or is it only Democrats who have the right to argue and fight for their beliefs? 

[JoeKitchen]

Welp, this is interesting!

Michigan orders closure of pipeline in escalating dispute with Canada

So we are currently dealing with a major terrorist attack from Russia that has shut down 45% of gasoline deliveries to the East Coast, causing a shortage.  Looks like the 1970s are back baby!

However, Gretchen Whitmer thinks the best response is to shut down another major pipeline.   

[kers]

they're giving their opinion just as your side gives a different opinion. Free speech belongs to both sides. 

You do believe in free speech,  don't you?

I believe in democracy based on facts, played by democratic rules.
Denying historical facts is not an example of free speech.
There are plenty examples, like denying the holocaust took place...

[Alan Klein]

I believe in democracy based on facts, played by democratic rules.
Denying historical facts is not an example of free speech.
There are plenty examples, like denying the holocaust never took place...

That's what makes a horse race.

[LesPalenik]

She voted to impeach the president of her own party.
You don't do those things especially when you're a leader within that party as she was.

The real problem for the party is that most of the members are blind cowards. Another possible explanation is that Trump amassed during his reign a lot of kompromat on them to ensure their loayalty after the end of his term.

[Peter McLennan]

Hillary Clinton claimed she was cheated out of the presidency. For years she complained. Did that undermine basic democratic values and the constitution?  Or is it only Democrats who have the right to argue and fight for their beliefs?

A grossly false equivalence, Alan.  You should know better.

She openly admitted defeat, telephoning Trump to congratulate him on his election.
She did not repeatedly lie about election results to Americans and the world.
She did not demand of election officials that votes be "found" to reverse her loss.
She did not incite armed insurrection at the Capitol in defense of her opinion that she'd been "cheated".

[Peter McLennan]

But anyway, it is truly incredible the sheer lack of ability for many on here to be objective...
...You may not like, since she is helping your party, but that is not looking at this objectively.  She is suppose to help the Republicans, not the Dems.

This is "objective" thinking?   This attitude is the triumph of partisan party allegiance over the plain, easily-demonstrated truth.

[LesPalenik]

Welp, this is interesting!

Michigan orders closure of pipeline in escalating dispute with Canada

So we are currently dealing with a major terrorist attack from Russia that has shut down 45% of gasoline deliveries to the East Coast, causing a shortage.  Looks like the 1970s are back baby!

However, Gretchen Whitmer thinks the best response is to shut down another major pipeline.   

If Whitmer manages to shut down the north-south Pipeline 5, that would very seriously affect Canadians.

If the line does get shut down — either before or after a court-appointed mediator is set to meet with the two sides again on May 18 — petroleum analysts say it would cause “a significant, violent reaction economically” across Canada.

“Consumers would have no fuel, and by no fuel I mean 66 per cent of Quebec’s oil would be cut off, 50 (per cent) for Ontario,” said Dan McTeague, president of Canadians for Affordable Energy. He added that the pipeline provides a significant chunk of the fuel that many large Ontario airports use in their day to day operations.

https://globalnews.ca/news/7853729/line-5-pipeline-shutdown-canada-impact/

[digitaldog]

A grossly false equivalence, Alan.  You should know better.

There is zero evidence he should, or does, or can. 

[JoeKitchen]

This is "objective" thinking?   This attitude is the triumph of partisan party allegiance over the plain, easily-demonstrated truth.

LOL. 

Once again, you are showing your lack of ability to be objective along with insist Democratic talking points are the only things that matter.  This is being the equivalent of the water boy who keeps on pointing out how much better the other team is, thinking he is doing good when in fact he is just destroying morale, making it worse. 

Cheney stated her opinion back in January, just like all of the other republicans on the matter.  However, unlike Cheney and you and many others, those Republicans realized you need to move on if you want to get reelected.  Unlike you, who obviously has a reason to keep the focus on Trump, getting Democrats to win, there is no reason for Cheney to do so given her leadership position. 

That is the long and short of it, and why she is being forced out. 

On top of that, the idea that the band of morons who entered the capital that day ever posed any risk at taking over is looking more and more like what it is, an absurd idea.  Likewise, the fact that DC is still using martial law to protect the federal government from those morons is also looking more and more like what it is, an absurd idea. 

And here's the thing, although I am enjoying the fact that so many Dems are now critiquing Biden for the mess he has already created, I, unlike you, have the objective ability to look at these Dems and know they are not helping the party, even though I may enjoy.  I know that those in leadership positions in the Democrats, like Pelosi, would be doing no favors to the Dems if she allowed this messaging to be the message of the Dems.  I may not like it, but it is the objective reality.  I suggest you at least try to look at things objectively. 

[JoeKitchen]

If Whitmer manages to shut down the north-south Pipeline 5, that would very seriously affect Canadians.

https://globalnews.ca/news/7853729/line-5-pipeline-shutdown-canada-impact/

I am watching one Eastern state after another having gas shortages and wondering, is this going to eventually reach PA?  I'd be wondering the same thing right now if I were you.  She seems hellbent on taking this crisis to the next level. 

The good news is, the administration is on top of it, pointing out that if you have an electric car, this would not be effecting you right now. 

‘If you drive an electric car’ fuel shortages ‘would not be affecting you’: US energy secretary

How thoughtful; I am sure this means so much to so many without the ability to get work, or those in a medical emergency. 

Plus, it is not like the electrical grid is susceptible to cyber attacks, right?  And you just cant remember a time in recent history when large swaths of the USA lost electricity for days or so, of course, unless you go back to 2003. 

[Robert Roaldi]

If Whitmer manages to shut down the north-south Pipeline 5, that would very seriously affect Canadians.

What's taking so long restarting that pipeline down there? They can't just reboot and rebuild their network from backups?

I haven't read anything about the Michigan Pipeline 5 thing, don't know what it's about. Just one more reason for countries to manage their own strategic resources without relying on others, not unlike that shortage of chips for Ford trucks. Good thing for us all these private companies are run so efficiently run or we'd be in deep doodoo. Makes me wonder if the pipeline's cyber security and/or disaster backup plans were just papered over with a thin veneer of bs to keep costs down and improve some quarterly management bonuses. I hate to be so cynical but it may not be possible to be cynical enough.

Well, with all those F-150s parked at the Kentucky speedway waiting for computer chips, we won't need as much gasoline anyway. Hope the generators that run the Covid vaccine refrigeration systems don't run out of fuel.

I read somewhere that the pipeline hacker group actually has their own web site? Does anyone know if that's true or just interweb noise? Too bad the people in charge of securing our society, Homeland Security, CIA, etc., can't seem to launch cyber-attacks on the hackers. Now there's a Hollywood plot!

I also read that the hacker group is Russian. Was that also interweb noise? Alan K must be in a tizzy. With the Russians trying to plug up US gasoline delivery while Chinese computer chip manufacturers are trying to ruin Ford, it must be difficult to decide whom to ally with, given that he was keen on Putin recently, but that was mostly because the Trumpster and Putin got along so well. Too bad Trump pissed off all those other countries while in office, their friendship might come in handy at some point.

All the troubles in the world.

[LesPalenik]

What's taking so long restarting that pipeline down there? They can't just reboot and rebuild their network from backups?

I haven't read anything about the Michigan Pipeline 5 thing, don't know what it's about. Just one more reason for countries to manage their own strategic resources without relying on others, not unlike that shortage of chips for Ford trucks.

We don't know to what degree the hackers compromised the pipeline network. Maybe they scrambled also the data on the network servers.

As to the computer chip shortage, it's not only Ford. With over 100 chips in a modern car, many other car manufacturers are affected. However, in this case it was not a result of hacking, but an extremely poor planning - both by car makers releasing orders and chip factories planning the chip production. Even more incomprehensible is that apparently the chip shortage could take up to two years to clear up.

[Alan Klein]

If Whitmer manages to shut down the north-south Pipeline 5, that would very seriously affect Canadians.

https://globalnews.ca/news/7853729/line-5-pipeline-shutdown-canada-impact/

Weren't you in favour of Biden shutting down the XL Canadian pipeline? So Governor Whitman is just playing the same political game. You can only blame yourself.

[Alan Klein]

A grossly false equivalence, Alan.  You should know better.

She openly admitted defeat, telephoning Trump to congratulate him on his election.
She did not repeatedly lie about election results to Americans and the world.
She did not demand of election officials that votes be "found" to reverse her loss.
She did not incite armed insurrection at the Capitol in defense of her opinion that she'd been "cheated".

from a 2019 article,  one of hundreds.

Hillary Clinton: Trump is an ‘illegitimate president’
Hillary Clinton dismissed President Trump as an “illegitimate president” and suggested that “he knows” that he stole the 2016 presidential election in a CBS News interview to be aired Sunday.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/hillary-clinton-trump-is-an-illegitimate-president/2019/09/26/29195d5a-e099-11e9-b199-f638bf2c340f_story.html

[LesPalenik]

Weren't you in favour of Biden shutting down the XL Canadian pipeline? So Governor Whitman is just playing the same political game. You can only blame yourself.

No, Alan, it must have been someone else, you can check my previous posts on this matter. I never advocated shutting down the pipelines. Moving the stuff through the pipeline is much cleaner and more environment friendly than moving it by trucks and rail.