Quō Vādis?

[Chris Kern]

Seems like most of the participants in this forum are d'un certain âge (and then some, for many of us), and therefore probably are currently cautious about travel because of the pandemic.  So I thought it might be interesting to inquire where others would go for a vacation, assuming they were reasonably confident they could get and stay there safely.  Not just for photographic opportunities, but just to get a break from being at home.  My wife and I put together a short list:

• San Miguel de Allende, México.  The state of Guanajuato doesn't seem to have the virus very well under control, but a web search suggests that the city of San Miguel is doing a tolerably good job.  On the other hand, I just spent a few minutes staring at a webcam focused on el Jardín (the local name for el zócalo, or central plaza), and it was eerily deserted.  Not a good sign.
• Santa Fe, New Mexico.  One of our favorite cities, which we've visited many times for many years, but the things we like to do there―going to art galleries, eating in restaurants, chatting with Amerindian vendors on the veranda of the Palace of Governors in the Plaza (the Santa Fean equivalent of el zócalo)―appear rather iffy at the moment.
• Vancouver, B.C.  Another one of our favorite cities, and also a frequent destination.  Activities similar to Santa Fe, and concerns as well.  On the other hand, Canada in general and British Columbia in particular seem to be doing much better containing the virus than we are here in the States and we would have access to first-class medical care if we needed it.
• London.  We were planning to make a long-overdue theater visit to London this summer, but had to put it off because of the travel restrictions.  And my brother, who is returning to the States after maxing out the six months the Brits allow him to stay there under the visa waiver program, reports rather poor adherence to the mask-wearing and social-distancing guidelines.  Plus, we would be totally dependent on public transportation: I'm not brave enough to drive a car on the wrong side of the street in London traffic.
• Yes, New Zealand would be great when we can nerve ourselves up for another flight to East Asia.  If I can get my teleportation machine working, we'll push it up to the top of the list.
  

And destination aside: traveling by air at the moment strikes me as problematical, even for pax who are willing to pop for premium tickets, since the boarding process essentially exposes everyone to everyone else.

Anyway, if you are thinking about traveling now, where would you go and how would you get there?

[Alan Klein]

Traveling is the hard part.  I thought of RV's but really didn't want to drive a big one since I never did before. My wife and I use to rent houses within driving distance from our home going to the Adirondacks, Cape Cod, the Catskills, Lake George.  You can pretty much stay away from everyone else.

With winter coming up, maybe a ski resort area.  Maybe you can find one that's within driving distance  from home.  If you want to get out and take pictures, what could be better?  You're not distracted with running to museums, eating out, theatre, etc.

A friend of mine's wife got stuck at the beginning of the virus in Thailand visiting their daughter who teaches English there.  She couldn't get a flight at all due to various restrictions in different countries.  She finally got home a couple of months ago not directly flying east to the US.  She had to first take a plane west to Germany where she connected to another airline that flew her back to New Jersey.  It took a total of two days. 

[LesPalenik]

Seems like most of the participants in this forum are d'un certain âge (and then some, for many of us), and therefore probably are currently cautious about travel because of the pandemic.  So I thought it might be interesting to inquire where others would go for a vacation, assuming they were reasonably confident they could get and stay there safely.  Not just for photographic opportunities, but just to get a break from being at home.  My wife and I put together a short list:

• San Miguel de Allende, México.  The state of Guanajuato doesn't seem to have the virus very well under control, but a web search suggests that the city of San Miguel is doing a tolerably good job.  On the other hand, I just spent a few minutes staring at a webcam focused on el Jardín (the local name for el zócalo, or central plaza), and it was eerily deserted.  Not a good sign.
• Santa Fe, New Mexico.  One of our favorite cities, which we've visited many times for many years, but the things we like to do there―going to art galleries, eating in restaurants, chatting with Amerindian vendors on the veranda of the Palace of Governors in the Plaza (the Santa Fean equivalent of el zócalo)―appear rather iffy at the moment.
• Vancouver, B.C.  Another one of our favorite cities, and also a frequent destination.  Activities similar to Santa Fe, and concerns as well.  On the other hand, Canada in general and British Columbia in particular seem to be doing much better containing the virus than we are here in the States and we would have access to first-class medical care if we needed it.
• London.  We were planning to make a long-overdue theater visit to London this summer, but had to put it off because of the travel restrictions.  And my brother, who is returning to the States after maxing out the six months the Brits allow him to stay there under the visa waiver program, reports rather poor adherence to the mask-wearing and social-distancing guidelines.  Plus, we would be totally dependent on public transportation: I'm not brave enough to drive a car on the wrong side of the street in London traffic.
• Yes, New Zealand would be great when we can nerve ourselves up for another flight to East Asia.  If I can get my teleportation machine working, we'll push it up to the top of the list.
  

And destination aside: traveling by air at the moment strikes me as problematical, even for pax who are willing to pop for premium tickets, since the boarding process essentially exposes everyone to everyone else.

Anyway, if you are thinking about traveling now, where would you go and how would you get there?

Canada currently does not allow Americans enter the country. As long as the current US infection numbers stay high, there is little chance that the Canadian cross-border policy will change.

[Alan Klein]

Les, Are Canadians visiting America? After all, it's getting into winter and the snowbirds where I live are already packing up and moving to their vacation homes in southern Florida. 

[armand]

Canada currently does not allow Americans enter the country. As long as the current US infection numbers stay high, there is little chance that the Canadian cross-border policy will change.

Yes, and I think New Zealand might have at least a 14 day quarantine, if they let you in to start with.


Traveling right now seems iffy at best, at least international. Easiest is to drive if it’s not too far.

[Robert Roaldi]

Les, Are Canadians visiting America? After all, it's getting into winter and the snowbirds where I live are already packing up and moving to their vacation homes in southern Florida.

It might depend on whether they have a residence in the US. I know that US residents who own property in Canada are allowed into the country with the understanding that they quarantine. I have no idea if there is any follow-up. A 14 day quarantine is not the end of the world to someone who travelling to their vacation home for 3-4 months, but it would surely wreck a one week long vacation.

[Chris Kern]

Almost all governments currently have entry restrictions and/or quarantine requirements for various classes or departure locations of visitors.  (And, typically, also mechanisms for making discretionary exceptions to the published rules.)  That's why I said "assuming [you] were reasonably confident [you] could get and stay there safely."

[LesPalenik]

Les, Are Canadians visiting America? After all, it's getting into winter and the snowbirds where I live are already packing up and moving to their vacation homes in southern Florida.

AFAIK, US allows Canadians entry to US if they arrive by plane. Compared to US, Canada has significantly fewer C19 infections and deaths, and thus the Canadian travellers do not constitute a huge risk. As of yesterday, Canada had 182K cases in total and 9,627 deaths in total. Compared with a less populous Florida which had 736K cases and 15,413 deaths in total.

This winter, instead of driving to Florida, I might get an airtight woodstove and keep warm by splitting the fire wood.

U.S. government won't say why it allows Canadians to fly to U.S. despite border closure.
It's a quirky rule that has confounded many people: while the Canada-U.S. land border is closed to non-essential traffic due to the COVID-19 pandemic, Canadians can still fly to the United States for leisure travel.
"It's like having your front door locked but your back door wide open," said U.S. immigration lawyer Len Saunders, whose office sits close to the Canadian border in Blaine, Wash. "It just doesn't make sense."

To add to the confusion, the flying rule isn't reciprocal: Canada bars American travellers from entering by any mode of transport, unless they get a special exemption.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/canada-u-s-border-closure-fly-travel-covid-19-1.5754763

[wcarlew]

https://www.iata.org/en/pressroom/pr/2020-09-08-012/   

IATA press release about the risks of air travel. As a press release I would consider it similar to an advertisement. And a Chris mentioned, this does not include the check in procedures.

[Paulo Bizarro]

This year I have avoided travelling out of Portugal, given the various quarantine regimes being on/off on a weekly basis. So I have stayed in country, which was actually not that bad really.

I would suggest Azoresor Madeira, two destinations that are handling covid quite well, and are beautiful.

[athegn]

"London.  We were planning to make a long-overdue theater visit to London this summer, but had to put it off because of the travel restrictions"

Even if you get to London almost all theatres and concert halls are closed.

[KLaban]

This year, having already had trips cancelled to India, Morocco and two to Greece, my wife and I would simply re-book what we have lost.

Come on Oxford, (other vaccine candidates are available).

[David Sutton]

Here in NZ we're free to travel anywhere in the world.
But there's no guarantee of getting back in the country if the quarantine places are full. Plus we may have to pay hotel rates for the two weeks isolation on our return. Plus a proportion of the population want too see returning NZ holiday makers get their virus tests rectally.
We're heading to the unpopulated high country with a tent once the unpredictable spring weather settles down. This has been a somewhat wild month, even here on the coast. Snow and storms, and then a week later 22 degrees C at seven in the morning.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

My biggest concern are sudden policy changes, like "as of the midnight last night..."

This is exactly what happened on June 1st at the Greek border with Bulgaria, where a score of Serbian tourists, many families with small children, lured by the prior Greek government announcement that the travel will start freely on that date, were stuck for a day or two.

If traveling from Belgrade to the States, I can not go via Schengen European states, even on transit flights.

There is a direct flight from Belgrade to NY, then I could take a local flight to Miami. Sounds good coming to the States. But going back the same way, via NY, might be a problem. At some point, NY instituted a quarantine for travelers from Florida. Whether it is still in force, and whether it applies to transit flights like mine, is something I do not want to be in the position to find out on the spot.

My only option currently is to fly via Turkish Airlines and Istanbul to Miami.  Their airline food is excellent, they even have a chef on board. On the minus side, possible policy changes overnight.

In the meantime, I can only watch flights landing in Belgrade:

[William Walker]

I "go on holiday" here about three times a day!

We used to live fairly close to this reserve and have sat in the hide (at the live cam) at this waterhole many times.

https://youtu.be/48MFrf5ADp8

"Situated in an area that was once the ancient ‘Ivory Route' linking Mozambique and Zululand, Tembe Elephant Park is renowned for having the largest elephants in Africa – and the planet! The park is remote, lying deep in the sand forests and wetlands in northern Tongaland, right on the border between KwaZulu-Natal and Mozambique."

The reason for there being large tuskers here is because in the era of "big-game hunters" this was a no-go area due to malaria and sleeping sickness (Tsetse Fly). All the elephants with big tusks were hunted out in the other areas.

[KLaban]

Here in the UK there are a raft of countries we can visit without having to self-isolate on return, but it is subject to change without warning. That said it would be no hardship if we had to self-isolate. But and it's a big but, why on earth would we put ourselves at the unnecessary and considerable risk in doing so?

I do feel for those who have no option other than to face that risk, whether travelling within their own countries or overseas.

[jeremyrh]

We travelled to Greece this summer and it seemed less risky than staying at home except for the flight back, which was quite busy, with the ususal selfish imbeciles wearing their masks round their chins.

Further afield, I saw a TV travel programme (Palin) from Kamchatka.  Looked like Iceland on steroids (no Remdesivir available). Covid may be the least of the hazards of getting there, since transport was by an ex Soviet military helicopter.

[Alan Klein]

In New Jersey where I live, we have set up self-quarantine for 14 days if you travel from about 30 very infected states.  However, if you travel from NY or Connecticut, there's no quarantine.  The governors of these three states have made a pact of no quarantine for intra=state travelers. However, many other states are on the list.  (Don;t know how international travelers are treated. Of course since theaters, restaurants, and museums are basically shut down, why come?)

Here are the rules to avoid quarantine.  They're silly.  It appears you can stay 24 hours without quarantining as if you won't spread the disease during 24 hours but will if you stay 48 hours.  So you drive through from infected Florida, cough over everyone in my town in NJ for 24 hours, then continue on to Boston to treat your Covid infection there.  Nuts!  This rule is from our brilliant Governors not from Trump or the Federal government.  And people blame him for the spread. 

From the link below:
"Please note that this advisory (self-quarantine) does not apply to individuals:

Who passed through a designated state for a period of limited duration (i.e. less than 24 hours) through the course of travel.
Who are passing through New Jersey on a layover for a period of limited duration (i.e. less than 24 hours) through the course of travel.
Who are traveling to New Jersey for business matters that are exempted from the application of the travel advisory.
Who are traveling to New Jersey and work in critical infrastructure fields, such as health care and federal, state and local law enforcement. Consult with your employer regarding whether there is industry-specific guidance that may apply to you."
https://covid19.nj.gov/faqs/nj-information/travel-and-transportation/which-states-are-on-the-travel-advisory-list-are-there-travel-restrictions-to-or-from-new-jersey

[Manoli]

My biggest concern are sudden policy changes, like "as of the midnight last night..."

This is exactly what happened on June 1st at the Greek border with Bulgaria, where a score of Serbian tourists, many families with small children, lured by the prior Greek government announcement that the travel will start freely on that date, were stuck for a day or two.

Freud would have had a field day with you.
They may have been ‘tempted’ but ‘lured’ they were not.

The spike in infections came predominantly and surprisingly from land crossings at the Northern border. Thessaloniki and Kavala in particular affected. Consequently, all those crossing and certain arrivals by air are/were required to have been tested and certified Covid-free, at most 72 hours prior to arrival.

The cut off throughout the EU appears to be 20 infections per 100,000. Over that limit then restrictions and self-quarantine will almost certainly be imposed.

Quo Vadis ?

Forget the vaccine, somewhere where you can live ‘outside’, has sun (Fauci says 2 hours of sunshine, aka Vitamin D) and ideally a gentle breeze or worse to disperse the droplets, if any. Practice social distancing, and hygiene - hand washing and gel  ‘à gogo’.  Easier said than done for many, I know.

[armand]

AFAIK, US allows Canadians entry to US if they arrive by plane. Compared to US, Canada has significantly fewer C19 infections and deaths, and thus the Canadian travellers do not constitute a huge risk. As of yesterday, Canada had 182K cases in total and 9,627 deaths in total. Compared with a less populous Florida which had 736K cases and 15,413 deaths in total.

This winter, instead of driving to Florida, I might get an airtight woodstove and keep warm by splitting the fire wood.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/canada-u-s-border-closure-fly-travel-covid-19-1.5754763

I experienced this US habit first hand, in El Paso, many years ago. To fly in/out of El Paso from/to other US cities was a breeze, only a driver license was needed. To drive out however required a much more thorough check.