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Author Topic: Hahnemuhle Factory Profiles were a disappointment  (Read 1216 times)

Daverich

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Hahnemuhle Factory Profiles were a disappointment
« on: August 14, 2020, 04:10:55 pm »

I recently started a search for a paper to replace Epson's Legacy Baryta. With that in mind I ordered Hahnemuhle's Glossy Fineart Sample Pack. Because there are only two sheets of each I wasn't able to make my own profiles but thought their profiles would give me an idea of what to expect and then I could narrow down my choice to a couple of their papers. My experience with Epson factory profiles has always been that they're usable but the one's I got from Hahnemuehle were really a disappointment. From my tests I ended up being able to judge paper white, surface texture, feel and bronzing but the colors are so far off I'll have to buy enough of a couple of the papers to make my own profiles. The Hahnemuhle paper in this image is Photo Rag Baryta compared to Epson's Legacy Baryta with my profile. I didn't put any effort into taking this image, the Photo Rag has glare on the top and so on but it's easy to spot some major differences. The strawberries and the skin tones for example. I use an Epson P5000 and the Hahnemuhle profiles are listed for the 5000, 7000 & 9000 printers so maybe that's the problem. I double checked all of my settings and switched to MK ink for the one paper that required it. I was able to learn the things that are most important to me in moving on, I'll just have to do the color on my own.



 
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Rand47

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Re: Hahnemuhle Factory Profiles were a disappointment
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2020, 06:35:50 pm »

I recently started a search for a paper to replace Epson's Legacy Baryta. With that in mind I ordered Hahnemuhle's Glossy Fineart Sample Pack. Because there are only two sheets of each I wasn't able to make my own profiles but thought their profiles would give me an idea of what to expect and then I could narrow down my choice to a couple of their papers. My experience with Epson factory profiles has always been that they're usable but the one's I got from Hahnemuehle were really a disappointment. From my tests I ended up being able to judge paper white, surface texture, feel and bronzing but the colors are so far off I'll have to buy enough of a couple of the papers to make my own profiles. The Hahnemuhle paper in this image is Photo Rag Baryta compared to Epson's Legacy Baryta with my profile. I didn't put any effort into taking this image, the Photo Rag has glare on the top and so on but it's easy to spot some major differences. The strawberries and the skin tones for example. I use an Epson P5000 and the Hahnemuhle profiles are listed for the 5000, 7000 & 9000 printers so maybe that's the problem. I double checked all of my settings and switched to MK ink for the one paper that required it. I was able to learn the things that are most important to me in moving on, I'll just have to do the color on my own.

Man, thatís ugly.  There has to be something you missed in your color management with their ICC profiile.  Iíve seen less-than-stellar profiles, but nothing that awful. Iíve used HahnemŁhleís profile for Photo Rag Baryta on my P5000 and it was pretty good, actually.

Rand

« Last Edit: August 19, 2020, 09:51:39 am by Rand47 »
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Rand Scott Adams

JRSmit

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Re: Hahnemuhle Factory Profiles were a disappointment
« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2020, 02:05:03 am »

Looks like there is no color management applied. The greens f.i. are way too dark.
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Jan R. Smit

Daverich

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Re: Hahnemuhle Factory Profiles were a disappointment
« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2020, 08:38:50 pm »

Man, thatís ugly.  There has to be something you missed in your colormanagement with their ICC profiile.  Iíve seen less-than-stellar profiles, but nothing that awful. Iíve used HahnemŁhle s profile for Photo Rag Baryta on my P5000 and it was pretty good, actually.

Rand

It was a surprise to me. Iíve done this long enough that I can double check the settings and confirm that nothing was wrong other than an unusable profile. Iíve ordered 25 sheet packs of three of the papers so I can make my own profiles and carry on from there.
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Rand47

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Re: Hahnemuhle Factory Profiles were a disappointment
« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2020, 09:23:38 pm »

It was a surprise to me. Iíve done this long enough that I can double check the settings and confirm that nothing was wrong other than an unusable profile. Iíve ordered 25 sheet packs of three of the papers so I can make my own profiles and carry on from there.

Good news.  Iím almost certain (at the risk of insulting your experience) that youíll discover something was amiss, somewhere.  And certainly, making your own profiles is the way to go for that last bit of image quality.  Itís a nice paper and one of the staples in my catalog.

Rand
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Rand Scott Adams

Daverich

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Re: Hahnemuhle Factory Profiles were a disappointment
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2020, 11:38:54 am »

Good news.  Iím almost certain (at the risk of insulting your experience) that youíll discover something was amiss, somewhere.  And certainly, making your own profiles is the way to go for that last bit of image quality.  Itís a nice paper and one of the staples in my catalog.

Rand

Going back through everything again I noticed in the P5000 General Settings a notation about a "Missing Filter". That was new to me so I did some research, followed the advice to delete everything Epson on my computer and reinstall from scratch. That took care of the color problem. This image is on Hahnemuhle's FineArt Baryta and again, while I only made a minimal attempt to color balance it for posting, it's clear that printing with the factory profile would be usable. Thanks everyone.

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Rand47

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Re: Hahnemuhle Factory Profiles were a disappointment
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2020, 11:47:30 am »

Excellent news.  Glad you got it sorted out.  Youíre obviously on a Mac, then?  Mark Segal is currently wrestling with yet another broken color management ďgiftĒ on his system.

I used to feel like a 2nd class citizen, doing fine art printing on a Windows OS platform.  The last few years have convinced me otherwise!  Hope this is a permanent fix to that issue for you. 

Rand
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Rand Scott Adams

Daverich

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Re: Hahnemuhle Factory Profiles were a disappointment
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2020, 04:28:49 pm »

I'm resurrecting this thread because the problem happened again and I don't have any idea how to solve it. I printed this image on one type of paper and a few days later printed it on another type. I didn't notice the problem right away but after drying the second print for a couple of days I went to put it away and as soon as I put it next to the previous print the color problem jumped out like a sore thumb. Earlier in this thread I described solving the problem by deleting the printer and then searching for and deleting everything related to my printer. After reinstalling the software and printer the problem immediately went away. This time I deleted the printer and then immediately added it again. The problem resolved itself without any further changes by me. Has anyone else here experienced this? Have any suggestions on how to stop this from happening again? I'm on a Mac running macOS 10.15.7, the current version of Photoshop and printing to an Epson P5000. I'm posting a quick snap of before and after prints, the correct one is on the left. It's most obvious in the out of focus green leaves to the right of the trunk but basically all of the colors are off. 

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JRSmit

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Re: Hahnemuhle Factory Profiles were a disappointment
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2020, 02:12:25 am »

Again, looks like no color managed , caused by some, perhaps same , reason of ďmissing filterĒ? Weird, but I am on W10, and luckily have not experienced this thusfar.
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Jan R. Smit

Rand47

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Re: Hahnemuhle Factory Profiles were a disappointment
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2020, 09:52:03 am »

Quote
I printed this image on one type of paper and a few days later printed it on another type.

Having a difference in color appearance when going from one paper type to another isnít that unusual.  Did you soft proof for the different paper type?  I guess what Iím asking is how you went about compensating for the different paper type - that would lead you to expect exact color match from one to the other?  Explaining your process might help in finding an answer to the difference that youíre seeing, i.e., is is a return of your original problem, or a result of some other aspect of your work flow, or even perhaps a difference in materials characteristics?

Rand
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Rand Scott Adams

Daverich

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Re: Hahnemuhle Factory Profiles were a disappointment
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2020, 11:42:18 am »

Having a difference in color appearance when going from one paper type to another isnít that unusual.  Did you soft proof for the different paper type?  I guess what Iím asking is how you went about compensating for the different paper type - that would lead you to expect exact color match from one to the other?  Explaining your process might help in finding an answer to the difference that youíre seeing, i.e., is is a return of your original problem, or a result of some other aspect of your work flow, or even perhaps a difference in materials characteristics?

Rand

I guess I didn't explain the samples I posted very well. This is a return to the original problem. The sample that I posted is before and after deleting and then re-adding my printer on the same paper. As far as printing on different papers, I make my own profiles and while there is a difference between the appearance of different papers, it's pretty subtle. This color change is much larger than that.
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Daverich

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Re: Hahnemuhle Factory Profiles were a disappointment
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2020, 11:44:36 am »

Again, looks like no color managed , caused by some, perhaps same , reason of ďmissing filterĒ? Weird, but I am on W10, and luckily have not experienced this thusfar.

It is a return to the same problem although, unlike my earlier post, this time there was no indication of a "missing filter".
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Rand47

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Re: Hahnemuhle Factory Profiles were a disappointment
« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2020, 11:48:38 am »

I guess I didn't explain the samples I posted very well. This is a return to the original problem. The sample that I posted is before and after deleting and then re-adding my printer on the same paper. As far as printing on different papers, I make my own profiles and while there is a difference between the appearance of different papers, it's pretty subtle. This color change is much larger than that.

Thanks for the clarification!  Sorry the initial problem has reoccurred. 

Rand
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Rand Scott Adams

BradSmith

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Re: Hahnemuhle Factory Profiles were a disappointment
« Reply #13 on: October 25, 2020, 07:36:15 pm »

.................. Mark Segal is currently wrestling with yet another broken color management “gift” on his system........

See the Article that Mark just posted on this site today regarding "missing or broken filter."
Brad
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ColourPhil

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Re: Hahnemuhle Factory Profiles were a disappointment
« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2020, 04:11:00 am »

See the Article that Mark just posted on this site today regarding "missing or broken filter."
Brad
Sorry but can't see that 'article'. Any chance of a link?
Edit, to say have found it on photopxl.com. Very interesting!
Cheers,
Phil
« Last Edit: October 26, 2020, 06:56:56 am by ColourPhil »
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Daverich

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Re: Hahnemuhle Factory Profiles were a disappointment
« Reply #15 on: October 26, 2020, 01:57:09 pm »

See the Article that Mark just posted on this site today regarding "missing or broken filter."
Brad

Thanks for the heads up on Markís article. Thatís exactly what happened the first time and almost what happened the second time. The second time there was no filter error but the color was off the same way and the solution was the same so Iím sure itís connected to the same problem. Thanks again.
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Daverich

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Re: Hahnemuhle Factory Profiles were a disappointment
« Reply #16 on: November 19, 2020, 04:27:42 pm »

And yet, it just happened again. Not sure what to do about it other than print a known image before printing anything serious. I've been using the IP driver but many, many years ago I used to use the Bonjour driver. I just made a print with that setup and it matches the IP print so maybe I'll give that a try for awhile. Can't hurt.
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