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Author Topic: Online Backup Storage.  (Read 10756 times)

mdijb

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Online Backup Storage.
« on: July 05, 2020, 06:00:57 pm »

I use a Drobo for holding all my images and other stuff, as my onsite, primary backup.  I want to Backup everything on the DROBO to an offline location for extra security.  THe drive contain multiple terabites of data.

My initial research indicates that my need for multiple TB exceeds the capacity of the various services, like Backblaze for example.

What would the community suggest to get this accomplished?

MDIJB
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jrsforums

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Re: Online Backup Storage.
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2020, 07:20:40 pm »

I use CrashPlan
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Re: Online Backup Storage.
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2020, 09:17:52 pm »

I used CrashPlan for years but it got too expensive consider the alternatives so I switched for far less and now use BackBlaze. I'm quite happy with the product.
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PeterAit

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Re: Online Backup Storage.
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2020, 08:12:26 am »

You can buy a 5 TB disk for $125. Get two for redundancy. Back up to those and keep in a safe deposit box.
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HCS

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Re: Online Backup Storage.
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2020, 03:50:48 am »

i backup to a synology nas each night.
i continuously backup to crashplan (US).
i continuously backup to jottacloud (EU).

My total dataset backed up is roughly 8Tb. Crashplan has increased its price, but still worth it. Jottacloud is cheaper, but slows down above 5Tb (but still on par with crashplan).

Just backing up to hard drives in the same building doesn't give enough security, at least for me. The roughly 20 bucks a month for the online backups are worth it to me. My collection is largely personal stuff.
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digitaldog

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Re: Online Backup Storage.
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2020, 07:53:24 am »

Exactly. Multiple drive backups AND off site (daily) cloud backup is belt and suspenders approach.
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Joe Towner

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Re: Online Backup Storage.
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2020, 09:47:14 am »

This is a relative easy discussion.  You've got a device that plugs directly into your computer, which means that the normal $6/month BackBlaze plan will back up the data on it.  How many TB's are you talking about? What's your upload speed like - go to speedtest.net to find out?  You'll want a local copy in addition to the Drobo, so the basic 8tb external USB3 drives.

The only concern is that you'll most likely want to do a full local backup, install the cloud backup then block all the non-current directories. As the first upload take a while, getting the current stuff uploaded is more important. As it finishes remove the blocks on the directories so they get uploaded as well.
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DP

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Re: Online Backup Storage.
« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2020, 10:31:23 pm »

not sure if it is important for the poster but he might need to pay attention to versions retention... code42 (crashplan) has unlimited (time-wise) tunable retention of file versions (say you got a byte corrupted - you have 2 versions still or deleted files), but backblaze does not offer this (is it only like a month for it)... it may or may not be important, so there is a value behind the price still.
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digitaldog

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Re: Online Backup Storage.
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2020, 11:01:13 pm »

not sure if it is important for the poster but he might need to pay attention to versions retention... code42 (crashplan) has unlimited (time-wise) tunable retention of file versions (say you got a byte corrupted - you have 2 versions still or deleted files), but backblaze does not offer this (is it only like a month for it)... it may or may not be important, so there is a value behind the price still.
Backblaze offers the option below at a slightly higher price. But no need if you have Time Machine.

Keep your old files versions for 1-Year or Forever
Backblaze keeps old file versions and deleted files for 30-days.
Now you can extend that time up to 1-Year for an additional $2/Month.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2020, 11:04:37 pm by digitaldog »
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rdonson

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Re: Online Backup Storage.
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2020, 12:57:38 pm »

There are simpler solutions perhaps to spending a month or two to upload a Drobo with several TB to an online service.

Buy another Drobo.  Copy the data on your existing Drobo to the second Drobo using software such as Carbon Copy Cloner or similar offerings. 

If you have a relative or friend nearby you can store Drobo #2 at their place.  Periodically take Drobo #2 home and update it from your first Drobo and then return it back to your relative/friends house. 

Not a high tech solution but it can work depending on your needs.  If you're running a business then this probably wouldn't be an ideal solution.
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budjames

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Re: Online Backup Storage.
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2020, 06:13:40 am »

I have 9TB of images in my photo archives, 25+ years of images.

Cloud services are too slow and expensive for me. I explored several solutions and settled on the using Synology Diskstations. My iMacPro supports 10gb Ethernet so I installed a 10GBE switch on my home network to connect to a Synology DiskStation DS1819+ on my network. I have a second DS1819+ installed in my office, 10 miles away.

Using the free application, Synology Drive, the external 8TB OWC Thunderblade SSD drive connected via Thunderbolt 2 to my iMacPro is automatically backed up, real time, to the DS1819+ on my home network. Changes on my network drive are automatically backed up to the DS1819+ installed in my office. The transfer speed to the remote network ranges from 10-32MB/sec.

The DS1819+ units have 8 drive bays. I installed Seagate IronWolf 6TB NAS drives into both units. Synology Hybrid RAID is their proprietary multi-drive set up that gives you the benefits of Drobo's system but with faster transfer rates. This allows you to add drives of any size or make to your expand your RAID. It works great, however, the only limitation, unlike Drobo, is that if you replace a failed drive, you must replace the drive with one of the same size or larger.

I have security cameras in my home and at the office. The same DiskStation is also the hub for my security system using Synology Surveillance Station application. The video files capture by my home security system is real time backed up to the office unit and visa versa.

After a few years, I have found Synology drives to be very reliable, fast and quiet. They are not cheap, but they do offer 2 and 4 bay models so you can get started with a more modest investment. Highly recommended!

Regards,
Bud James

Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto.
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DP

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Re: Online Backup Storage.
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2020, 08:38:06 pm »

But no need if you have Time Machine.

time machine does cloud backup now ? because if you local storage goes kaboom then what ? you want to use backblaze to backup that database ? it still does not keep anything forever and add the hassle in piling stuff ... oops - https://help.backblaze.com/hc/en-us/articles/217665558-Backblaze-doesn-t-backup-Time-Machine - not sure it is still the case (not a user of such stuff)

Now you can extend that time up to 1-Year for an additional $2/Month.

does not matter - still limited - with code42 (crashplan) it is forever with tunable granularity, with backblaze it is still limited...
« Last Edit: July 10, 2020, 08:41:27 pm by DP »
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digitaldog

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Re: Online Backup Storage.
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2020, 08:55:13 pm »

time machine does cloud backup now ?
What makes you think it would? Or can't? BTW, it CAN: https://www.cloudstoragereviews.co/best-practices/backup-time-machine-to-cloud.html
TM does as you wrote (confusingly): tunable retention of file versions.
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because if you local storage goes kaboom then what ?
The same thing that would happen if the cloud storage when kaboom. Which is why one has multiple backups. Even so called tunable retention of file versions. With TM and/or other products that provide that kind of backup.
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does not matter - still limited - with code42 (crashplan) it is forever with tunable granularity, with backblaze it is still limited...
Code42 isn't the same as TM, TM isn't the same as Backblaze (the actual name of the product).
The really sad comment that's ridiculous is: "it is forever". 🤮
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DP

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Re: Online Backup Storage.
« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2020, 10:25:02 am »

What makes you think it would? Or can't? BTW, it CAN: https://www.cloudstoragereviews.co/best-practices/backup-time-machine-to-cloud.html

so it, itself, can't - you must pile extra software to do this... 


What makes you think it would? Or can't? BTW, it CAN: http
TM does as you wrote (confusingly): tunable retention of file versions.

TM is a local backup - you need extra crouches to move its database into some cloud  (that is NOT to say that you shall not use timemachine, specifically after being crippled by using backblaze in attempt to save few bucks   ;D  ) ... code42 (crashplan) is a single cloud backup solution - topic is about online backups


 The same thing that would happen if the cloud storage when kaboom.

you personal local backup has way more chances to do this than cloud storage from a reputable company

With TM and/or other products that provide that kind of backup.

TM has a limit on how long and what it keeps - that makes it a crippled online backup solution for people trying to save few bucks... I understand why somebody in 10th-world country can do this, but the last time I checked someone resides still in USA and not working as a bracero.
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digitaldog

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Re: Online Backup Storage.
« Reply #15 on: July 11, 2020, 10:57:32 am »

so it, itself, can't - you must pile extra software to do this... 
If you want it to (seems silly), you can. Those are the facts. Ignore them (again) if you please.
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TM is a local backup - you need extra crouches to move its database into some cloud
It is a local backup until it isn't.
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you personal local backup has way more chances to do this than cloud storage from a reputable company
I have TM. I have an archive of old TM backups. I have multiple on site drives that I swap into and out of a fire proof safe. I have Blackblaze; a reputable company. That's what I have. What other's do is up to them.
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TM has a limit on how long and what it keeps
No, it really doesn't. There's a limit to what can be stored on any drive. One can create as many TM's as they desire and like I did, archive older ones as I have. You are the one that insists, without proof, that something is 'forever'.  :P
Do tell us what would happen to your forever Crashplan data if Crashplan went out of business or as you suggest, "kaboom'? Forever, right....
Not much is forever other than human stupidity and eventually, when the sun explodes, that might be the end of humanity but never of us will likely be around to worry about it.
I have nothing against Crashplan; I was a customer for like 6 years. I decided I didn't need to spend unnecessary extra money for it and switched last year to Backblaze. The OP or anyone else can do the same but the bottom line is, with TM, I have iteration of data and I could, if I wanted to, move that to the cloud.
I'm sorry the universal decision not to use Crashplan ruffles your delicate feathers. It is a fine offering but it isn't necessary for everyone!
« Last Edit: July 11, 2020, 11:02:02 am by digitaldog »
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jrsforums

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Re: Online Backup Storage.
« Reply #16 on: July 11, 2020, 12:32:58 pm »

https://www.cloudwards.net/crashplan-vs-backblaze/

Thank you.  This is a very complete analysis.  Reinforces why I choose and stay with Crashplan. 

Other recommended backup plan is an amalgam of patchwork to do what Crashplan does.
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Joe Towner

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Re: Online Backup Storage.
« Reply #17 on: July 14, 2020, 05:49:18 pm »

TM has a limit on how long and what it keeps - that makes it a crippled online backup solution for people trying to save few bucks... I understand why somebody in 10th-world country can do this, but the last time I checked someone resides still in USA and not working as a bracero.

Having a hard time separating the incorrect answer from the insult. TimeMachine is a valid, very usable backup solution that does more than either BackBlaze or Crashplan.  Try doing an OS level reinstall from any cloud provider.  Or moving to a new Mac.  For folks working off a single drive, especially an internal one, there isn't a simpler product THAT JUST WORKS.

Are there better things like cloning your OS drive, or multiple stage backups, yes. But for a simple backup, plug in a drive, format it APFS & turn on TimeMachine beats not having one hands down.  Works for folks on limited internet, or even completely offline.

Has CrashPlan shutdown their 'home' product before, yep. https://www.theverge.com/2017/8/22/16184430/crashplan-home-shutting-down

Online storage is a race to the bottom - lowest price for unlimited storage. It's not sustainable as a business model.  For every terabyte you upload, someone has to spend more than a few bucks every month to manage, maintain & replicate your data.  Start reading into the cost structure of this business and start to worry.  Code42 did the pivot away from the consumer plans because it's a money losing space.  I expect once they go public there will be a shift to higher margins & doing things like setting a minimum number of seats.

The 'forever' storage isn't a realistic plan.  If you want to archive data, that's a separate product space & things like tape drives, B2 or AWS Glacier come into play.  A continuously incremental backup will fail far more often than anyone wants to admit.  Any issue in that file/block chain, and you're completely screwed & re-uploading everything.  TimeMachine does a pretty good job of rolling up data (days into weeks, weeks into months, etc), and having to start a fresh backup is a good time to swap out the backup drive for a new one.

Everything you backup to a cloud will be deleted once you stop paying the bill.  A stack of drives at home offsite can be read by others, so if you have kids, make sure they know where to look if something happens to you.

-Joe
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BobShaw

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Re: Online Backup Storage.
« Reply #18 on: July 15, 2020, 01:29:48 am »

TM has a limit on how long and what it keeps - that makes it a crippled online backup solution for people trying to save few bucks... I understand why somebody in 10th-world country can do this, but the last time I checked someone resides still in USA and not working as a bracero.

The limit for TimeMachine is how big the disk is. Nothing else. I have a Drobo for long term storage that will (hopefully) never fill up. The backups go back to the day I got it and on some smaller disks 2014. The current hourly backups are on three rotating 6TB drives, one of which is always offsite.
As for the US superiority in solutions, how is that Covid thing going?
« Last Edit: July 15, 2020, 07:04:50 pm by BobShaw »
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JeffSD

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Re: Online Backup Storage.
« Reply #19 on: July 19, 2020, 04:10:02 pm »

Here's a backup plan I developed after stupidly losing some data (fortunately, not too much) from a drive failure a few years ago:

1. Time Machine on a dedicated hard drive (6TB) in my old, but trusty, Mac Pro.

2. Backblaze. $55 a year (on the two year plan) for unlimited cloud storage seemed reasonable to me.

3. A bootable copy of my operating system SSD (with all applications, Lightroom catalog, backups, etc.) that I keep onsite.

4. A second bootable copy of my operating system SSD and copies of all data drives that are kept in a safety deposit box. I try to update them monthly. Carbon Copy Cloner is used to copy my drives and it works great.

This plan might be overkill, but here's my thinking:

Time Machine is great, but useless if there's a fire, or my computer gets stolen. Ditto any onsite backups.

Cloud storage is great, but web recovery is slow. Backblaze's restore by mail option is nice (up to 8TB for $189 which is refunded if you return the drive within 30 days) but it still takes time. Also, as good as cloud storage is, you're relying on a third party to be around when you need them. Odds are they will be, but it's not 100%. Hence, the copies in a safety deposit box.

I'm probably still at risk for nuclear armageddon. I need to work on that.  ;D

Best,
Jeff

 
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