Topic: What happens when Photoshop freezes with a very large file? (Read 1781 times)

tsinsf · « **on:** July 01, 2020, 12:42:24 pm »

In my covid boredom I was editing one photo in Photoshop (most recent version) for hours and created a very very large file, at least 40 layers (I didn't look to see how big the file was) and when I tried "Save As" it of course froze and I had to force quit. Fortunately Photoshop recovered the file and when I restarted it opened. I then tried to merge all the layers so I could save it and it froze again. I couldn't access Force Quit so I manually shut down the computer. It took almost four minutes to restart the computer (2013 Mac Pro, 32 Ram, Mac OS 10.14.6). I succefully merged layers a few at a time, and then merged them, and saved the photo. So, my question is what is going on under the hood when this happens? Which hardware is the limiting factor?

langier · « **Reply #1 on:** July 01, 2020, 12:58:53 pm »

I've had that problem, working for hours but forgetting to save the file on a regular basis though usually saving as I go and I think there maybe a background auto-save in the newer versions though I've forgotten if there is.

I don't know what the hardware limits with the way I craft and layer my images, my files are ballooning. When I save these files for the first time, I'm generally fine, but as I add to the layers and adjustments, I'll do a "save," wait, then about 98% get the message that the file is too large...Then I'll save as a PSB, Photoshop Large file which avoids the 2GB PSD or the 4GB TIFF limits.

Most of the times of my recent "crashing" happens when I have several photos open and Nik will cause a freeze or a crash. Usually more annoying than a problematic issue, considering the age of my MacPro and all the grafting of hardware and software I've done in the last ten years.

Years ago I would be working with a client and we were so focused on our collaboration, I'd forget to save after and hour or two and it was a total system crash. However, by that time, we'd know what we wanted and simply started from scratch then have our finished image in 15-20 minutes, but even better.

I would try early on to save the file as a PSB file and then back it up on a second hard drive then work on the layers and see if that may help.

tsinsf · « **Reply #2 on:** July 01, 2020, 04:35:29 pm »

OP here. Thanks for the replies. I'm actually not asking for help on how to prevent crashes. I'm really interested in understanding how the computer and software work together and what fails. Is it the computer architecture of home computers, not designed to run that much data? Is it the Adobe software? The Mac OS? The way the two pieces of software work together? The CPU, not fast enough such that it freezes when asked to do so much? Etc, etc.

kers · « **Reply #3 on:** July 01, 2020, 06:29:05 pm »

You say you could do everything but saving... so something is wrong there...
disk on its limit ( only 10% space left?)

Jim Kasson · « **Reply #4 on:** July 01, 2020, 07:17:35 pm »

Quote from: tsinsf on July 01, 2020, 04:35:29 pm

OP here. Thanks for the replies. I'm actually not asking for help on how to prevent crashes. I'm really interested in understanding how the computer and software work together and what fails. Is it the computer architecture of home computers, not designed to run that much data? Is it the Adobe software? The Mac OS? The way the two pieces of software work together? The CPU, not fast enough such that it freezes when asked to do so much? Etc, etc.

I regularly save 4GB .psb files from Ps with no issues at all, but I'm using Win 10. Are you sure you're not into virtual memory swapping? Always something to stay away from.

Jim

tsinsf · « **Reply #5 on:** July 02, 2020, 04:28:18 pm »

Yes, I too have no problem saving files as big as 4GB. My photo was much bigger than that. I'm actually not looking for advice on how to save big files, rather I'm just trying to understand what goes on under the hood when Photoshop stalls on a file that is too big. Is it the basic internal architecture of home computers, built to handle a limited amount of data? Is it inherent in the Photoshop software? In the OS, in my case, Mac OS 10.14.6? Etc, etc? FYI, I had 650 GB of free space on my internal SSD.

Jim Kasson · « **Reply #6 on:** July 02, 2020, 04:35:44 pm »

Quote from: tsinsf on July 02, 2020, 04:28:18 pm

Yes, I too have no problem saving files as big as 4GB. My photo was much bigger than that. I'm actually not looking for advice on how to save big files, rather I'm just trying to understand what goes on under the hood when Photoshop stalls on a file that is too big. Is it the basic internal architecture of home computers, built to handle a limited amount of data? Is it inherent in the Photoshop software? In the OS, in my case, Mac OS 10.14.6? Etc, etc? FYI, I had 650 GB of free space on my internal SSD.

Let me get this straight. You had a Ps file that was much bigger than 4 GB and you have 32 GB of RAM? How much free RAM did you have? How big was the file? In what format were you trying to save it?

Jim

tsinsf · « **Reply #7 on:** July 02, 2020, 05:00:52 pm »

As I mentioned in my original post, I didn't look to see how large the file was. I don't know how much free ram I had. I was running only Photoshop and Lightroom. I was trying to Save As a Tiff.

kers · « **Reply #8 on:** July 02, 2020, 06:08:12 pm »

Quote from: tsinsf on July 02, 2020, 05:00:52 pm

As I mentioned in my original post, I didn't look to see how large the file was. I don't know how much free ram I had. I was running only Photoshop and Lightroom. I was trying to Save As a Tiff.

It is possible that Photoshop just took ages, but still was saving the file... just did not communicate it well.
Not so long ago i also had some problem with photoshop with a big file say 30Gb and 32 GB ram.
I decided to buy some more Ram since it is very cheap at the moment, but i was used to that it could do it ; only would take a long time; in this case it did not seem to work.
I have saved in the past 50Gb files with 24 Gb Ram... on older versions of OSX and Photoshop.
But the reason for not completing the saving i don't know. Maybe we are to impatient.

deanwork · « **Reply #9 on:** July 02, 2020, 07:08:47 pm »

I don’t know if you guys do this but when working with multiple filter activities, like gaussian blur, sharpening,
grain reduction filters, Etc, I clear the virtual memory by going to Edit - Purge - All , which clears the virtual memory accumulation to allow you to keep working and saving things. I’ve done this since the very early days of Photoshop and Windows 98, when we had hardly any ram at all but wanted to work with multiple layers like background copies, dozens of cloning passes, one on top of another. ..... If you don’t do this every single change is being saved and it really adds up.

Quote from: kers on July 02, 2020, 06:08:12 pm

It is possible that Photoshop just took ages, but still was saving the file... just did not communicate it well.
Not so long ago i also had some problem with photoshop with a big file say 30Gb and 32 GB ram.
I decided to buy some more Ram since it is very cheap at the moment, but i was used to that it could do it ; only would take a long time; in this case it did not seem to work.
I have saved in the past 50Gb files with 24 Gb Ram... on older versions of OSX and Photoshop.
But the reason for not completing the saving i don't know. Maybe we are to impatient.

tsinsf · « **Reply #10 on:** July 02, 2020, 09:07:41 pm »

Op again. Thanks for the replies. In my case, Photoshop stopped responding, I had to Force Quit it.

Jim Kasson · « **Reply #11 on:** July 03, 2020, 08:45:16 am »

Quote from: tsinsf on July 02, 2020, 05:00:52 pm

As I mentioned in my original post, I didn't look to see how large the file was. I don't know how much free ram I had. I was running only Photoshop and Lightroom. I was trying to Save As a Tiff.

You say that it was much bigger than 4 GB and you were saving it as a TIFF? Are you aware that TIFF is limited to less than 4 GB?

deanwork · « **Reply #12 on:** July 04, 2020, 10:03:47 am »

You can’t save these big files as tiff anymore. You save as large document file.

quote author=Jim Kasson link=topic=135475.msg1177518#msg1177518 date=1593780316]
You say that it was much bigger than 4 GB and you were saving it as a TIFF? Are you aware that TIFF is limited to less than 4 GB?
[/quote]

Jim Kasson · « **Reply #13 on:** July 05, 2020, 11:43:22 am »

Quote from: deanwork on July 04, 2020, 10:03:47 am

You can’t save these big files as tiff anymore. You save as large document file.

I don't think you could ever save them as TIFF. The 4GB limit is a consequence of the format's 32-bit offsets. There are modifications to the format that allow larger files.

Eric Brody · « **Reply #14 on:** July 05, 2020, 01:22:18 pm »

I've run up against the 4GB TIFF problem ever since I got my A7RIII. A workshop with Charlie Cramer cured me of my overzealous layer making but now with the A7RIV I still have large files.

What I now do is "save" as soon as the file is in Photoshop, labelling it a "Master." Then after a few layers I do a "save as" with "image compression" ZIP and "layer compression" ZIP. This has allowed me to save almost all of my files as TIFFs (<4GB). After that, all the saves are ZIP'd. It does increase the save time. It's always a good idea to look at the file size before a save, an error I've made more than once. I read that PSB's can now be saved into Lightroom, a good thing, but have not tried it. I realize storage is relatively inexpensive these days but grew up in photography and computing when it was not, so saving space in a prime directive for my subconscious.

I'm not aware of any quality loss from this method though I'd appreciate hearing other opinions about it.

Eric

Jim Kasson · « **Reply #15 on:** July 05, 2020, 01:36:16 pm »

Quote from: Eric Brody on July 05, 2020, 01:22:18 pm

I read that PSB's can now be saved into Lightroom, a good thing, but have not tried it.

It works just fine.

Jim Kasson · « **Reply #16 on:** July 05, 2020, 01:38:18 pm »

Quote from: Eric Brody on July 05, 2020, 01:22:18 pm

I'm not aware of any quality loss from this method though I'd appreciate hearing other opinions about it.

Lossless compression will not reduce quality unless there is a file or file system error, in which case the damage will be more visible and less localized.

kers · « **Reply #17 on:** July 05, 2020, 01:43:05 pm »

Quote from: Eric Brody on July 05, 2020, 01:22:18 pm

... After that, all the saves are ZIP'd. It does increase the save time. ...

Eric

It does increase the saving time enormously, i find. Especially when you use fast disks. I save at 1GB /sec and more uncompressed. Compressed would take ages...
It interrupts my workflow and makes my fast computer 5 years older.
When i am done with my work i reduce the size by throwing away some unused layers etc
The archive is on conventional hard disks. They cost 4TB 100$ ; i buy 8TB disks at the moment so a can save a lot for little money in a small package.
I could introduce a zip-compression before archiving, but i am too lazy.

JeffSD · « **Reply #18 on:** July 09, 2020, 12:34:46 pm »

Another thing to look at is your version of Photoshop.

I'm also running Mac OS X. After installing the latest version (21.2) I experienced significant problems opening and saving large files with numerous layers. I'm not sure what was "going on under the hood" in the new version, but it wasn't pretty. Uninstalling PS and reinstalling the prior version (21.1.3) resolved the problems.

As Jim mentioned, the 4GB TIFF limit is a given, but I've had no problem saving (and printing from) large document PSB files in Lightroom.

If your image is a final edit you can consider using the "Flatten Image" command in the "Layer" directory. This will save disk space and likely get your file below 4GB so it can be saved as a TIFF, if that's important to you.

One more thing to check is available space on your scratch disk. Photoshop isn't just a memory hog, it loves to hog disk space, too.

Jim Kasson · « **Reply #19 on:** July 10, 2020, 10:32:29 am »

Quote from: JeffSD on July 09, 2020, 12:34:46 pm

As Jim mentioned, the 4GB TIFF limit is a given, but I've had no problem saving (and printing from) large document PSB files in Lightroom.

But here's the mystery. The OP said: "Yes, I too have no problem saving files as big as 4GB. My photo was much bigger than that." Yet he was saving it as a TIFF. How could that ever work?

Perhaps the OP will clear this up.

Jim

Author Topic: What happens when Photoshop freezes with a very large file? (Read 1781 times)