US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)

Biden

14 (66.7%)

Trump

7 (33.3%)

Total Members Voted: 21

Voting closed: November 02, 2020, 06:25:59 pm

[Alan Klein]

Word is Trump is having some sort of "press conference" later this evening from his golf club in Bedminster, New Jersey. He got an early start for a weekend of golf. The members of the golf club will be his audience and will provide the applause. The initiation fee to be a member of the club is estimated to be $350,000. One reporter suggested that the optics are bad.

You're so hateful of Trump and blinded by it,  you missed the whole political import.  Congress just failed to enact an extension of the Covid funding to individuals.  Negotiations between Republicans and Democrats in Congress has ended.  PPP is dead.  So now Trump unilaterally is going to come out and make a speech and be the people's champion and bypass Congress giving them their PPP money.  This will show his leadership while Democrats in Congress dropped the ball.  Of course, Democrats are going to argue he cannot constitutionally bypass Congress.  They're mainly right.  But what are they going to tell the voters.  That they want to stop Trump from helping them?  That he's doing what they refused to do?   He's got Democrats caught between a rock and a hard spot. Head he wins.  Tails they loss.

[hogloff]

You're so hateful of Trump and blinded by it,  you missed the whole political import.  Congress just failed to enact an extension of the Covid funding to individuals.  Negotiations between Republicans and Democrats in Congress has ended.  PPP is dead.  So now Trump unilaterally is going to come out and make a speech and be the people's champion and bypass Congress giving them their PPP money.  This will show his leadership while Democrats in Congress dropped the ball.  Of course, Democrats are going to argue he cannot constitutionally bypass Congress.  They're mainly right.  But what are they going to tell the voters.  That they want to stop Trump from helping them?  That he's doing what they refused to do?   He's got Democrats caught between a rock and a hard spot. Head he wins.  Tails they loss.

Great you see this as a game of chance...sort of like the virus will magically disappear one day...or the virus will just go away when it gets hot. And another 1000+ people died today from the virus.

[Chris Kern]

Well-reported piece by Julian Barnes in the New York Times today about the latest assessments by U.S. intelligence agencies regarding the attempts by Russia and China to interfere in the November U.S. presidential election.

[Alan Klein]

Great you see this as a game of chance...sort of like the virus will magically disappear one day...or the virus will just go away when it gets hot. And another 1000+ people died today from the virus.

We're talking about funding to help people who lost their jobs.  The Democrat controlled House in Congress didn't help.  The Republican president will. 

[Alan Klein]

Well-reported piece by Julian Barnes in the New York Times today about the latest assessments by U.S. intelligence agencies regarding the attempts by Russia and China to interfere in the November U.S. presidential election.

Nobody cares about that.  They only care about staying healthy and their next paycheck.

[hogloff]

Nobody cares about that.  They only care about staying healthy and their next paycheck.

But that's a problem. Shouldn't people care if their election results are influenced by foreign countries? Who's running this ship anyways?

[faberryman]

We're talking about funding to help people who lost their jobs.  The Democrat controlled House in Congress didn't help.  The Republican president will.

I thought you were bitching and moaning about how the government was printing money, and it was going to cause inflation, and your pension and social security wouldn't keep up, and your savings would be wiped out, and about how lazy workers were staying at home collecting more in unemployment benefits than their former wages, and how your dentist couldn't hire a replacement assistant, and on and on and on and on ad nauseam. Not real consistent are you? By the way, wasn't it the Republicans who all left town for their summer vacation leaving no one for the Democrats to negotiate with.

And in the end Trump didn’t do anything, no executive orders, no this, no that, nothing.  Just blah blah blah about what he might do. Funny, no mention of a second stimulus check and no details about the amount of the unemployment add on and no details about relief for state and local governments. Just blah, blah, blah. Just more reading stuff out of a notebook. Here Mr. President, go read out of this notebook. Yo-Semites.

Did you get a little laminated card for your wallet when you joined the cult?

[Chris Kern]

Well-reported piece by Julian Barnes in the New York Times today about the latest assessments by U.S. intelligence agencies regarding the attempts by Russia and China to interfere in the November U.S. presidential election.

Nobody cares about that.  They only care about staying healthy and their next paycheck.

For once, I'm inclined to agree with you―although I find it disturbing, and rather surprising, to think that the American general public is not concerned about attempts by foreign governments to interfere in our fundamental democratic processes.  But at the moment, the out-of-control coronavirus infections and collapsed economy probably take precedence for the attention of most people.

Actually, however, what really surprises me is that "Kremlin-linked actors" are still trying to "undermine" former Vice President Biden and "boost" President Trump.  I had assumed Russian President Putin by now had concluded that Trump was unlikely to be re-elected in November, and that it would be Russia's interest, as well as his own, to do what he could to avoid provoking stronger sanctions by a Biden Administration than are already likely.

We assess that Russia is using a range of measures to primarily denigrate former Vice President Biden and what it sees as an anti-Russia “establishment.” This is consistent with Moscow’s public criticism of him when he was Vice President for his role in the Obama Administration’s policies on Ukraine and its support for the anti-Putin opposition inside Russia. For example, pro-Russia Ukrainian parliamentarian Andriy Derkach is spreading claims about corruption – including through publicizing leaked phone calls – to undermine former Vice President Biden’s candidacy and the Democratic Party. Some Kremlin-linked actors are also seeking to boost President Trump’s candidacy on social media and Russian television.

―Statement by William Evanina, director, National Computer Security Center

Of course, there may be some hysteresis in the system: i.e., decisions by Putin and his close associates may take some time to propagate through various bureaucratic layers before they reach the people actually engaging in the disruption.

[Robert Roaldi]

The initiation fee to be a member of the club is estimated to be $350,000. That doesn't include monthly dues and assessments.

When I read numbers like that, my jaw drops. I guess the reason to join up is to be near people who have the money to join up. That's some serious ass-kissing.

[Robert Roaldi]

You're so hateful of Trump and blinded by it,  you missed the whole political import.  Congress just failed to enact an extension of the Covid funding to individuals.  Negotiations between Republicans and Democrats in Congress has ended.  PPP is dead.  So now Trump unilaterally is going to come out and make a speech and be the people's champion and bypass Congress giving them their PPP money.  This will show his leadership while Democrats in Congress dropped the ball.  Of course, Democrats are going to argue he cannot constitutionally bypass Congress.  They're mainly right.  But what are they going to tell the voters.  That they want to stop Trump from helping them?  That he's doing what they refused to do?   He's got Democrats caught between a rock and a hard spot. Head he wins.  Tails they loss.

Why was just the Democrats who dropped the ball? It was a 2-way negotiation (more or less), wasn't it? Aren't Republicans also to blame for negotiations breaking down.

[James Clark]

Why was just the Democrats who dropped the ball? It was a 2-way negotiation (more or less), wasn't it? Aren't Republicans also to blame for negotiations breaking down.

Of course.  The irony is that the Dems wanted MORE funds, the White House said no, refused to compromise in the middle, and now the Alans of the world are buying the BS that somehow Trump is the guy that went to bat for the working man.  It’s maximal stupidity.   And, as mentioned earlier, you just have to scroll up a bit to see the same person screaming about how spending is irresponsible.  It’s positively Trumpian in its total disregard for what the truth was 5 minutes ago. 

[Peter McLennan]

... and now the Alans of the world are buying the BS that somehow Trump is the guy that went to bat for the working man.

That's been true since the get go.  Yet, unaccountably, and despite all evidence to the contrary, they still intend to vote for him.

It’s maximal stupidity.

No effing kidding.

[kers]

Well-reported piece by Julian Barnes in the New York Times today about the latest assessments by U.S. intelligence agencies regarding the attempts by Russia and China to interfere in the November U.S. presidential election.

Nobody cares about that.  They only care about staying healthy and their next paycheck.

Well than it is very important for Trump can only be reelected with Russian help.

[Alan Klein]

Of course.  The irony is that the Dems wanted MORE funds, the White House said no, refused to compromise in the middle, and now the Alans of the world are buying the BS that somehow Trump is the guy that went to bat for the working man.  It’s maximal stupidity.   And, as mentioned earlier, you just have to scroll up a bit to see the same person screaming about how spending is irresponsible.  It’s positively Trumpian in its total disregard for what the truth was 5 minutes ago. 

More funds for other things such as bailing out the states (which would help me personally since NY and NJ taxes affect me directly) than helping the average out-work American and small businessperson.  The Democrat controlled house and Nancy Pelosi could have agreed to the lower amount that would refund the PPP.  But she refused.  Trump is twisting their arms making them look like the culprits.  I suspect the Congress will come to a compromise. Otherwise they'll make Trump look better when he gives out money by presidential executive order.  Of course, once they settle, he'll take credit for it and knocking Biden for hiding out in his basement and doing nothing.

[Alan Goldhammer]

Otherwise they'll make Trump look better when he gives out money by presidential executive order.

I am unaware that the President can unilaterally give out money.  From my understanding Congress has the sole right under the Constitution to appropriate money.  The only power the President has it to submit a budget to Congress which is most cases is DOA.  It will be interesting to see what new powers President Trump has conjured up.

[Alan Klein]

I am unaware that the President can unilaterally give out money.  From my understanding Congress has the sole right under the Constitution to appropriate money.  The only power the President has it to submit a budget to Congress which is most cases is DOA.  It will be interesting to see what new powers President Trump has conjured up.

It doesn't matter if he has the constitutional authority.  Politically, he'll look like he's trying to help the unemployed while the Democrats are refusing to fund it. 

[Robert Roaldi]

It doesn't matter if he has the constitutional authority.  Politically, he'll look like he's trying to help the unemployed while the Democrats are refusing to fund it.

In the interests of obstinacy, I'll ask again. Why do you say it's the Democrats doing that when it took both sides to reach a breakdown in the talks.

[Alan Klein]

In the interests of obstinacy, I'll ask again. Why do you say it's the Democrats doing that when it took both sides to reach a breakdown in the talks.

The Republicans who run the Senate already passed a bill for the unemployed and to extend the PPP.  It's the Democrats under Speaker Nancy Pelosi that run the House of Representatives.  So the Democrats are holding it up.  If the Republicans ran the House too, the bill would have passed Congress already and signed by Trump and the unemployed would be getting their PPP checks. 

Of course the states won't be getting bailed out by Republicans, something that Democrat House Speaker Pelosi wants to do.  But only Democrats care about that or people like me who live in New Jersey and see our states going broke because we waste tax money and need a charitable handout from Washington DC.  We don't want our pensions screwed with.

[James Clark]

The Republicans who run the Senate already passed a bill for the unemployed and to extend the PPP.  It's the Democrats under Speaker Nancy Pelosi that run the House of Representatives.  So the Democrats are holding it up.  If the Republicans ran the House too, the bill would have passed Congress already and signed by Trump and the unemployed would be getting their PPP checks. 

The House passed another relief bill 3 months ago.  It's sitting rotting on McConnell's desk as we speak, because politics.  So, for the third time then, why is it all the Democrats' fault?

[faberryman]

The Republicans who run the Senate already passed a bill for the unemployed and to extend the PPP.  It's the Democrats under Speaker Nancy Pelosi that run the House of Representatives.  So the Democrats are holding it up.  If the Republicans ran the House too, the bill would have passed Congress already and signed by Trump and the unemployed would be getting their PPP checks.

The Democrats who run the House already passed a bill for the unemployed and to extend the PPP. It's the Republicans under Majority Leader McConnell that run the Senate. So the Republicans are holding it up. If the Democrats ran the Senate too, the ill would have passed Congress already and signed by Trump and the unemployed would be getting their PPP checks.

You see, it works both ways.

The Democrats in the House passed a bill and the Republicans in the Senate passed a bill. They are different. So the Democrats in the House and the Republicans in the Senate need to come together and negotiate the differences. The problem is the Republicans left town to go on their summer vacations so the Democrats have no one to negotiate with. The Democrats and the public at large will simply need to wait until the Republicans have finished their summer vacations and come back to work.

Meanwhile, 164,887 Americans have died from COVID-19, and the total is growing at over 1,000 deaths a day.