US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)

Biden

14 (66.7%)

Trump

7 (33.3%)

Total Members Voted: 21

Voting closed: November 02, 2020, 06:25:59 pm

[jeremyrh]

In any case, what does that have to do with the point that Black Americans have the worse time in Democrat controlled cities?

You seem to have got cause and effect muddled up.

Poor people vote Democrat (other things being equal) because they see the Republicans as the party of fat cats.  There will therefore obviously be a correlation between poverty and cities with Democrat administration.

[Alan Klein]

You seem to have got cause and effect muddled up.

Poor people vote Democrat (other things being equal) because they see the Republicans as the party of fat cats.  There will therefore obviously be a correlation between poverty and cities with Democrat administration.

Policing is under the control of Democrat administrations in those cities.  If blacks are being singled out or cops aren't doing their jobs fairly,  they should blame the Democrats.  Additionally, the 1994 crime bill that put so many blacks in Federal prisons for relatively minor drug offenses was signed by Democrat President Bill Clinton and supported by Senator Biden.  Biden bragged about it. 

[Robert Roaldi]

Policing is under the control of Democrat administrations in those cities.  If blacks are being singled out or cops aren't doing their jobs fairly,  they should blame the Democrats.  Additionally, the 1994 crime bill that put so many blacks in Federal prisons for relatively minor drug offenses was signed by Democrat President Bill Clinton and supported by Senator Biden.  Biden bragged about it.

Shouldn't that get them a lot of law & order votes?

[jeremyrh]

Policing is under the control of Democrat administrations in those cities.  If blacks are being singled out or cops aren't doing their jobs fairly,  they should blame the Democrats.  Additionally, the 1994 crime bill that put so many blacks in Federal prisons for relatively minor drug offenses was signed by Democrat President Bill Clinton and supported by Senator Biden.  Biden bragged about it.

I assume they consider the Democrats to be the lesser of evils. The Republicans certainly don’t give any sign of being keen to crack down on racism.

[Alan Klein]

Is "Democrat-controlled city" a new catch phrase in online messaging? I've seen it a few times lately. Does it mean anything?

And "the most in history"?  Really?  Why am I having trouble believing that?



I have no idea at all, could not even guess. But I figure that he'll do as well as Trump did for coal miners.



As for that poor lady US diplomat, it would be interesting to speculate how many drug and people traffickers the border control boys missed while they pissed around searching her car.

On that, at one point she said that she was told to look away while they searched her car. Is that normal procedure? What would be the reason behind that, does anyone know? Because like her, the FIRST thing that would occur to me is that they were planting something in the car. Seemed like an odd request, but there may be a good reason for it.

Don't doubt it.  Blacks had the lowest unemployment rate under Trump. See link.  Blacks should believe he could do it for them again.  Biden can't.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LNS14000006

Regarding the lady who wrote the article she said that consulate’s Homeland Security attaché, in Mexico City hundreds of miles away from the border and unconnected to the border CBP inspection officers, had contacted CBP. He told her that CBP’s computer system had been making a mistake, confusing her with someone else with a similar name.  That would account for her constant inspections.  It doesn't make sense otherwise.  Why would they bother with an attractive woman, black or not, almost every time?  Maybe once in a while.  But not as many times as she complained about.  So it probably was a screwed up computer system like the attache told her.  I don;t think it was nefarious.  Just typical government incompetence similar to the airport police who check also had thousands of people on their lists who would not be cleared through immediately.  They would also do secondary inspections and searches and did hand held metal detector checks until your name came off the defective list.

[Alan Klein]

I assume they consider the Democrats to be the lesser of evils. The Republicans certainly don’t give any sign of being keen to crack down on racism.

Crimes based on racism are prosecuted locally.  It's nonsense Republican are for racism.  You're doing what the Democrats always do - play the race card to divide people for votes.  It's why we have so much strife now.  The Dems foreever pit one group against another driving tribal conflict between races, sexes, ethnic groups, etc.  The Democrats are always for discrimination of one group against another to gain advancement rather than hard work and talent as Republicans encourage. 

[jeremyrh]

Crimes based on racism are prosecuted locally. 

But they’re incited nationally. “Rest in peace, Jay”

It's nonsense Republican are for racism.

Trump sure is, as we see every day, and I don’t hear any Republican voices calling him out, so I guess they are too. Cities are burning on Trump’s watch, and all he cares about is if it will get him votes.

[Alan Klein]

But they’re incited nationally. “Rest in peace, Jay”Trump sure is, as we see every day, and I don’t hear any Republican voices calling him out, so I guess they are too. Cities are burning on Trump’s watch, and all he cares about is if it will get him votes.

The Democrats are playing the race card and encouraging separation.  They make promises to give people benefits based on the color of their skin.  That's racism.  They're doing it to consolidate minority vote by playing people's concerns about racism and the falsely perceived benefits of voting for Democrats.  Trump is filling in the vacuum on the other side.  You ought to stick to British politics.  You know nothing about what you're talking about. 

[jeremyrh]

The Democrats are playing the race card and encouraging separation.  They make promises to give people benefits based on the color of their skin.  That's racism.  They're doing it to consolidate minority vote by playing people's concerns about racism and the falsely perceived benefits of voting for Democrats.  Trump is filling in the vacuum on the other side.

[/quote]

Nobody is encouraging separation except Trump and his goon squad.  When the President calls white supremacists "very fine people" and fills his Twitter feed with dog whistle racism, the strategy is obvious - foment unrest and then try to blame it on the Democrats, and unfortunately for the US, it seems to be working.

  You ought to stick to British politics.  You know nothing about what you're talking about.

Weren't you complaining about ad hominem a while back?

[Robert Roaldi]

The Democrats are playing the race card and encouraging separation.  They make promises to give people benefits based on the color of their skin.  That's racism.  They're doing it to consolidate minority vote by playing people's concerns about racism and the falsely perceived benefits of voting for Democrats.  Trump is filling in the vacuum on the other side.  You ought to stick to British politics.  You know nothing about what you're talking about.

Do you think it's appropriate for the President to make statements like this https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/514515-trump-defends-kenosha-suspect-as-acting-in-self-defense about an on-going criminal investigation?  If I were involved in a crime as either victim or perpetrator, I wouldn't want people in high office to stick their noses in for political reasons. The facts aren't known yet but even if he thinks he does know the facts, it's not his place to say anything.

It's hard to interpret his statement as anything other than provocation. Do you think he perceives his statement as a vote-getter? What does that say.

[Craig Lamson]

Nobody is encouraging separation except Trump and his goon squad.  When the President calls white supremacists "very fine people" and fills his Twitter feed with dog whistle racism, the strategy is obvious - foment unrest and then try to blame it on the Democrats, and unfortunately for the US, it seems to be working.

Weren't you complaining about ad hominem a while back?

You should stop telling that blatant lie.

https://www.politifact.com/article/2019/apr/26/context-trumps-very-fine-people-both-sides-remarks/

Reporter: (Inaudible) "… both sides, sir. You said there was hatred, there was violence on both sides. Are the --"

Trump: "Yes, I think there’s blame on both sides. If you look at both sides -- I think there’s blame on both sides. And I have no doubt about it, and you don’t have any doubt about it either. And if you reported it accurately, you would say."

Reporter: "The neo-Nazis started this. They showed up in Charlottesville to protest --"

Trump: "Excuse me, excuse me. They didn’t put themselves -- and you had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides. You had people in that group. Excuse me, excuse me. I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name."

Reporter: "George Washington and Robert E. Lee are not the same."

Trump: "George Washington was a slave owner. Was George Washington a slave owner? So will George Washington now lose his status? Are we going to take down -- excuse me, are we going to take down statues to George Washington? How about Thomas Jefferson? What do you think of Thomas Jefferson? You like him?"

Reporter: "I do love Thomas Jefferson."

Trump: "Okay, good. Are we going to take down the statue? Because he was a major slave owner. Now, are we going to take down his statue?

"So you know what, it’s fine. You’re changing history. You’re changing culture. And you had people -- and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists -- because they should be condemned totally. But you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists. Okay? And the press has treated them absolutely unfairly.

"Now, in the other group also, you had some fine people. But you also had troublemakers, and you see them come with the black outfits and with the helmets, and with the baseball bats. You had a lot of bad people in the other group."

[Craig Lamson]

Do you think it's appropriate for the President to make statements like this https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/514515-trump-defends-kenosha-suspect-as-acting-in-self-defense about an on-going criminal investigation?  If I were involved in a crime as either victim or perpetrator, I wouldn't want people in high office to stick their noses in for political reasons. The facts aren't known yet but even if he thinks he does know the facts, it's not his place to say anything.

It's hard to interpret his statement as anything other than provocation. Do you think he perceives his statement as a vote-getter? What does that say.

Are you fricking kidding me?  He was asked a question and he responded in a responsible manner.  He told the reporter what was happening and what he saw in the very same videos we can see.  Kyle was being attacked. He was being chased and an attempt was made to try and grab his rifle.  A  shot rang out, not from Kyles firearm and he made the call to defend his life.  He continued to be chased. He was being beaten over the head with what could be described as a deadly weapon.  He had a handgun pointed directly at his head.  None of this can be disputed.  Full stop.  The President can say whatever he wants, just like you can.  What he said was perfectly fine. 

[jeremyrh]

You should stop telling that blatant lie.


Reporter: "The neo-Nazis started this. They showed up in Charlottesville to protest --"

Trump: "Excuse me, excuse me. They didn’t put themselves -- and you had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people,

https://www.vox.com/2019/4/26/18517980/trump-unite-the-right-racism-defense-charlottesville

n short, Unite the Right was organized not by individuals who, in Trump’s words, “felt very strongly about the monument to Robert E. Lee,” but by ardent white supremacists and white nationalists.

On multiple occasions before Unite the Right, attendees stated that the Confederate memorial that was supposedly their purpose was actually the least of their concerns. We have their statements, their videos, their posters, and their words.

We also have the transcript and video of how Trump responded. He did, indeed, refer to the people who attended Unite the Right, people who were likely well aware of and supportive of its messaging, as “very fine people,” and he downplayed the tiki torch parade as “people protesting very quietly.”

Unite the Right was a horrific event in our nation’s recent history — and to come to terms with it requires doing so in good faith and honesty, something the president and his defenders appear unwilling to do.

[BernardLanguillier]

Policing is under the control of Democrat administrations in those cities.  If blacks are being singled out or cops aren't doing their jobs fairly,  they should blame the Democrats.  Additionally, the 1994 crime bill that put so many blacks in Federal prisons for relatively minor drug offenses was signed by Democrat President Bill Clinton and supported by Senator Biden.  Biden bragged about it.

And you don't think that Trump has anything to do with creating an overall atmosphere of hatred in the country that deepens the gaps between communities and encourages people with racist tendencies to let got of the restraint they would need to display?

This has nothing to do with local politics, it's a global topic that the President obviously has a major impact on.

Cheers,
Bernard

[BernardLanguillier]

Are you fricking kidding me?  He was asked a question and he responded in a responsible manner.  He told the reporter what was happening and what he saw in the very same videos we can see.  Kyle was being attacked. He was being chased and an attempt was made to try and grab his rifle.  A  shot rang out, not from Kyles firearm and he made the call to defend his life.  He continued to be chased. He was being beaten over the head with what could be described as a deadly weapon.  He had a handgun pointed directly at his head.  None of this can be disputed.  Full stop.  The President can say whatever he wants, just like you can.  What he said was perfectly fine.

Craig, there is no way you can honestly think what you are writing.

Trump not being 100% clear that this guy is a murderer is just insane. Unheard of for any political leader in a democratic state, yet alone for a US President.

You are blinded by your beliefs.

Cheers,
Bernard

[Chris Kern]

Trump not being 100% clear that this guy is a murderer is just insane. Unheard of for any political leader in a democratic state, yet alone for a US President.

Actually, no.  While it clearly is inappropriate for a president to state an opinion regarding facts that may be the subject of a future criminal trial―Trump simply should have responded to the reporter's question with an anodyne statement to the effect that he was not going to comment on an ongoing criminal investigation―"being 100% clear that this guy is a murderer" would have been a far more serious blunder than what he actually said because if "this guy" is put on trial for murder, a statement of that nature would have provided the defense with enormous leverage to use in negotiations with the prosecution for a plea to a lesser offense.  It would have handed the defendant's attorney a powerful argument that a fair trial would be impossible, not only in Wisconsin but anywhere in the country, because of a prejudicial statement by the highest elected official in the country.

Again, Trump's comment was clearly inappropriate, but what you are suggesting would have been much worse.

[Craig Lamson]

https://www.vox.com/2019/4/26/18517980/trump-unite-the-right-racism-defense-charlottesville

n short, Unite the Right was organized not by individuals who, in Trump’s words, “felt very strongly about the monument to Robert E. Lee,” but by ardent white supremacists and white nationalists.

On multiple occasions before Unite the Right, attendees stated that the Confederate memorial that was supposedly their purpose was actually the least of their concerns. We have their statements, their videos, their posters, and their words.

We also have the transcript and video of how Trump responded. He did, indeed, refer to the people who attended Unite the Right, people who were likely well aware of and supportive of its messaging, as “very fine people,” and he downplayed the tiki torch parade as “people protesting very quietly.”

Unite the Right was a horrific event in our nation’s recent history — and to come to terms with it requires doing so in good faith and honesty, something the president and his defenders appear unwilling to do.

I can see reading is not your strength.

[Alan Klein]

And you don't think that Trump has anything to do with creating an overall atmosphere of hatred in the country that deepens the gaps between communities and encourages people with racist tendencies to let got of the restraint they would need to display?

This has nothing to do with local politics, it's a global topic that the President obviously has a major impact on.

Cheers,
Bernard

Democrats are the racists. They've been using the race card to provide additional benefits for minorities against white people. This is reverse discrimination. That has created tensions and divisions among the races.  Poor whites are being left behind.  Their needs are being ignored as minorities get advantages.  The reaction you see from Trump and the right is due to the stirring of the prejudice from the left. That's why playing the race card is so dangerous and I'm so opposed to it. Everyone should be treated equally. There should be no discrimination for or against anyone based on the color of their skin or their gender or sex.

[JoeKitchen]

And you don't think that Trump has anything to do with creating an overall atmosphere of hatred in the country that deepens the gaps between communities and encourages people with racist tendencies to let got of the restraint they would need to display?

This has nothing to do with local politics, it's a global topic that the President obviously has a major impact on.

Cheers,
Bernard

Nope!  Obama started this decline in 2009, and polling shows that to be the case.  Now Trump has done little to help, but the Dems are continuing to push a decisive narrative pitting groups against each other, aka identity politics. 

In the last couple of months, the Dems have encouraged blacks hating whites (and other non-black), women hating men, immigrants hating natives, anti-semitism for all (look at some of those who worked at the DNC), etc.  I look at the below head line and cant help but think, "after 40 years of wondering the desert, they have finally found their way back home ... to the Democratic Party." 

Richard Spencer Endorses Joe Biden

Makes me glad not to be a democrat.   

And the fact is, this is all backfiring on the Dems and showing to be a major miscalculation, especially given the violent riots happening now is suburbia.  (Kenosha is has just over 100K, only slightly qualifying as a city.)   

This is not to say Trump has not made any miscalculations, just that his came to fruition in June and July, whereas the Dems are seeing theirs come to fruition in September and October.

But anyway, Slobo is going to like this pic, from a book by James Peck called "Ideal Illusions: How the U.S. Government Co-opted Human Rights" 

[JoeKitchen]

Craig, there is no way you can honestly think what you are writing.

Trump not being 100% clear that this guy is a murderer is just insane. Unheard of for any political leader in a democratic state, yet alone for a US President.

You are blinded by your beliefs.

Cheers,
Bernard

Murder is a legal definition in the USA, and until proven of murder, you are not a murderer.  Therefore this kid is not a murderer, and all available evidence does show he shot in self-defense.  He will get off easy, for the murder charge, at least.  I suspect he will plead to a weapons' charge though. 

Now should he have even shown up to this protest, surely to turn into a riot, with a conspicuous weapon?  Absolutely not, especially as a 17 year old without any real life experiences.  With the exception of trained solders and police, I dont think anyone should be going to something that is sure to become a riot.