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Author Topic: Hasselblad remembered they made the H platform...  (Read 7405 times)

Joe Towner

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Re: Hasselblad remembered they made the H platform...
« Reply #20 on: May 14, 2020, 05:57:16 pm »

Sorry TechTalk, that's a lot of bluster with lots of recycling.  I want to see Hasselblad do things & thrive.  It seems like there are 5-6 people with 907x setups starting in March.  That's great, but for something announced last July to great fanfare & lots of 'I'd buy this' from folks who don't shoot digital medium format, I am expecting a bit more.  The original X1D roll out was hard due to demanding being 10x of expectations. I would think that Hasselblad would have learned from this experience in 2016/2017 and prepared.

My comment was specific to the H platform, the flagship top of the line 100mp $33,000 kit - same price as it was announced in 2016.  The camera that hasn't had a new or improved lens in the H6D lifetime, and I think the same can be said for the H5D.  The H glass has been silent since the 50mm II & 120mm II in 2010, with everything else being older.  The new shutters were in 2016, but it was the same optics & design.

There hasn't been an overhauling of the H6 line in the last 4 years - the H6 was the overhaul that started when the H5D shipped.  The -100c was in final designs & is the reference point for these comments.  The -400c MS came out in 1/2018, but is built on the same platform that Hass invested years in, is a specialist tool.  MS is not something most photographers will ever consider.  So we're back at the flagship, most lusted after top of the line product still being the H6D-100c.

The Sony 150mp BSI chip has been shipping since 2018 with PhaseOne having their IQ4 shipping Sept/Oct of 2018.  I am not expecting Hasselblad to ship on the same timeframe as Phase, but I would expect that there would be engineering units built & around that for initial testing and calibration purposes.  Does the existing H glass render to the level expected of a flagship camera with that new sensor?  I'm going to go ahead and say that variances are all over the place, with some lenses being stronger than others.  To resolve this, it's either a matter of working that partnership with Fuji, or finding a new partner to produce lenses that will deliver for a future camera.  Those lens announcements & shipping activity is the 'life' I am expecting from Hasselblad on the H platform. 

Say a pro already had a full lens set & purchased a H6D-100c when it first came out.  What would you have to talk to them about over the last 4 years? These folks aren't going to step down to a X1D.  So they keep plugging away with the -100c, because it delivers.  Hass doesn't have anything new to sell these users - they're spending their upgrade money with other companies.

Digital Medium Format is a massive investment that people spend years on.  These last few years may have been the high point for photographer incomes for a while.  That it's 9 months from announcement to shipping in non-Covid times, I can only guess what that clock looks like now.  Hasselblad needs sales to survive, and I don't see what they are selling in support of their flagship camera.  Without a forward looking statement of any kind, with a history of slow delivery, and having spent these last years focused on the X platform, is there a real future for the H flagship?

Hence the buttons comment.

-Joe



Well. Let's see what Hasselblad has been up to since the H6D-100c was announced (which was itself a major overhaul of the internal electronics and user interface).

Starting with the H side of things: The H6D-400c MS was introduced at the beginning of 2018. Even if you don't want 400 MP images, I think it's worthwhile to see the difference that 4-shot makes on 100 MP images. The improvements in image quality are readily apparent. Hasselblad offers you a choice of single-shot, 4-shot, 6-shot (400 MP), 4K RAW full sensor width video, and film options from a single camera. It's quite sad that the options are so limited with other cameras; don't you think?

Of course, in the interim we've also seen the introduction from Hasselblad of entirely new categories and form factors of medium format cameras with the X1D/X1D II and 907x. While these are not upgrades to the H system; they are an extension of it as H lenses can be readily used with yet another option, mirrorless camera bodies. These use the new interface first introduced on the H6D-100c establishing a new cross-platform common user interface. Considering the number of photographers that are now using both DSLR and mirrorless systems, having a system that allows you to move one set of lenses between the two with relative ease has a number of advantages.

And perhaps realistic expectations for a small company in a very competitive market niche that wants to break new ground in new markets and to survive should be considered. In 4 years time: they have overhauled the H system with H6 cameras (in 50, 100, and 400 MP model options and an H6x to accommodate film and other digital back users), added 4K RAW video, introduced the X1D, X1D II, 907x, CFV II 50c along with an entirely new lens line (which includes a deep and refined set of lens profiles), the new A6D aerial system, and created Phocus Mobile 2 for tethering, Wi-Fi, processing, control, and sharing from an iPad. While at the same time regularly pushing out: new firmware to enable and improve promised features and stability for all the cameras, new features never promised (like the recent focus stacking for the X1D), and several new or improved features for Phocus along with major speed improvements. I would say the small, but dedicated, team of hardware, firmware, software, and optical engineers have been working hard along with the manufacturing staff.

Now, if your particular notion of a desired feature or product hasn't risen to the top of Hasselblad's rather long list of priorities; I understand that you're disappointed, but sad? What it appears to me they have tried to do is create a range of camera and lens options with unique form factors, feature sets, and a high degree of cross compatibility with a common user interface. From what I've observed, they've been pretty successful.

What they haven't changed is the extraordinarily consistent and natural color look that they have had for years. It is the most important aspect of the system for some users and I have frequently seen or heard the remark in reviews that the color is incredible or even the best they've ever seen. This, like most aspects of any camera system, is entirely subjective of course.

So will they ever do what every user, potential user, reviewer, critic, or armchair CEO thinks (or is certain) they should be doing? No, I don't think so. But no company will. I just hope they continue to innovate and design products that appeal to a large enough and broad enough number of users for whom the picture quality is as rewarding as their unique individual reasons for enjoying the experience of taking them.
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BobShaw

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Re: Hasselblad remembered they made the H platform...
« Reply #21 on: May 14, 2020, 10:56:39 pm »

I want to see Hasselblad do things & thrive. ... The original X1D roll out was hard due to demanding being 10x of expectations. I would think that Hasselblad would have learned from this experience in 2016/2017 and prepared.....

Digital Medium Format is a massive investment that people spend years on.  ...  Hasselblad needs sales to survive, and I don't see what they are selling in support of their flagship camera. 

Hasselblad have learnt from the X1D experience. People want small light medium format cameras with great image quality and will readily buy them. Most of the other camera manufacturers have also learnt that.

I have had 4 different H series cameras and they were great, but as soon as the X1D came out I wanted it. As soon as the early adaptors sorted out the bugs and the price came down I bought it. I could not imagine buying one of these basically 2001 vintage heavy cameras again. It is like a Nokia mobile phone.

If you need 100MP or 400MP they have one. I doubt that they sell many though. I doubt that is much different to a Canon 1Dx MkIII.
A "flag ship" is mostly for talking about and flying a flag. An aircraft carrier to parade the troops on occasionally when we already have drones and intercontinental missiles.

As for H series lenses, well what is missing that you would spend R&D  developing?

« Last Edit: May 18, 2020, 06:59:28 pm by BobShaw »
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douglevy

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Re: Hasselblad remembered they made the H platform...
« Reply #22 on: May 15, 2020, 12:07:58 pm »

What Joe said is 100% true for me. I have 3 H lenses, 2 bodies and an IQ3100 (and no upgrade path). I'm extremely happy and it does more than I need (which at the moment is sit in a bag and look pretty), but I don't see any new additions anytime soon (for many reasons).

Joe Towner

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Re: Hasselblad remembered they made the H platform...
« Reply #23 on: May 15, 2020, 01:04:29 pm »

Hey Bob,

Yea, X1D has size/weight going for it - we're not getting any younger.  Given the buzz that Hasselblad had around the square V1D concept in 2016, and the roll out of the X1D the demand was known.  To take this long to have limited units in the field is frustrating - either they grew the factory enough to support the X1D sales or they just put their heads down & people got cameras when ever they became available.

The reason I don't pull the X line into this discussion is because the X is just a pocket mirrorless camera.  The flagship has to be in use, actively seen in high budget shoots & doing things for big brands. When you see it as a prop in another advertisement, you know exactly what it is.  This is the whole brand awareness issue, the H draws attention, while the X is just another camera.

The more visual things get, the more important the higher resolution images are.  Eye level window adverts need the higher resolution, especially in complex scenes or for promoting personal brands.

H series lenses - oh where to start:
     - Take any lens, use the same formula, and upgrade the lens elements to shave 15% of the weight off
     - HC 35mm has been extremely frustrating as to how much it has to be stopped down - do a new one
     - Take the HCD 24mm & HCD 28mm full coverage plus some for use with the HTS
     - HCD 35-90mm - get it to full coverage
     - A new zoom lens that's longer than 110mm

I'm signed up for all the marketing pushes from Hasselblad. Never have they done a 'get your lens tuned' type specials.  For a platform that doesn't have AF Microadjustment, getting the lenses tuned is a manual process only done at a service center.  Make a fancy sticker that says 'ready to 150mp' and apply it to lenses post servicing. 

The greater issue is now that the GFX100 is seen as a platform with a future, with a full crib of brand new lenses.  Even of you don't need the 100mp, it's there.  But what is also there is the faster frame rate, with the better AF performance.  Plus CaptureOne support is baked in.  If you don't want to spend the money, get the GFX50R/S and upgrade later.  This is where that whole longevity thing comes in.  If you were to buy in now, what's the outlook for new products that are a part of the system?

Will an X1D III be built around the 100mp sensor, and will it have to be a much larger camera to handle the amount of data being shoved around?  Otherwise what is going to maintain the brand going forward?
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Hasselblad remembered they made the H platform...
« Reply #24 on: May 15, 2020, 05:55:39 pm »

As a H6D-100c user, my view is:
- great colors and image quality
- best MF body UI on the market (physical and touch screen)
- aging lenses, the 100mm f2.2 in particular is weak compared to the Fuji 110mm f2.0, the Otus 100mm f1.4 or the Nikon 105mm f1.4. The only lenses I find truly outstanding are the 50mm II and 210mm f4. Those are world class lenses and there is nothing out there that’s significantly better. The 28mm f4 is very good too (far far better than the P1) but it’s image circle doesn’t fully cover (still very usage though)
- Hasselblad has done nothing for me since I bought the camera, they have barely been able to make it work up to the initially committed spec and that took more than a year. There has been zero update bringing value beyond that baseline
- Hasselblad has not communicated at all about the future of the H platform nor in terms of camera nor in terms of lenses. To my eyes it’s a dead platform
- as of now I only keep it in hope of a H7D-150c that would have a more tech camera movement friendly sensor for my Arcaswiss... but I am starting to think that I should perhaps just sell it and wait for a good deal on an IQ4-150 after the next P1 upgrade
- although it probably goes against my interest as an owner of their most high end camera ever I’ll say it like it is, I am deeply dissatisfied with Hasselblad and would actively recommend against buying in the H platform at this stage unless someone finds a sweet deal second hand and it 100% happy with what the system does today even if nothing better ever comes (which is now most likely)

What may come to the rescue is P1’s apparent inability to make Capture One Pro work with good performance on the new Mac Pro... and the fact that the IQ4-150 appears to be their worst release ever with a long list of bugs, power consumption issues that they don’t appear to be able to fix either. I think that Fuji is the only reasonable choice these days...

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: May 15, 2020, 05:58:52 pm by BernardLanguillier »
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Joe Towner

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Re: Hasselblad remembered they made the H platform...
« Reply #25 on: May 18, 2020, 12:49:14 am »

Flagships cameras are important. Canon sells tens of thousands of the 1Dx II's and now the III's because it's their absolute best camera. Same for the Nikon D5/D6...   The PhaseOne IQ4 150mp is a flagship product, and when it can be used effectively is a much better camera.

Remember, the purpose of a camera is to capture a visual moment in time.  There is lots of trade offs between platforms, technology and ability. But for the absolute best posed, lit & captured image, there's nothing better.  The Hasselblad can be a part of this discussion, but that's a preference on color & form.  But it has been a part of this discussion for DECADES.  How many formal portraits for heads of state have been shot on Hasselblad over the years?  The future king of England had his formal wedding photos shot on a H4D-50.  Why is it now ok that Hasselblad is not maintaining its top end product line to the standards we all deserve.
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BobShaw

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Re: Hasselblad remembered they made the H platform...
« Reply #26 on: May 18, 2020, 07:10:37 pm »

Flagships cameras are important. Canon sells tens of thousands of the 1Dx II's and now the III's because it's their absolute best camera. Same for the Nikon D5/D6...   The PhaseOne IQ4 150mp is a flagship product, and when it can be used effectively is a much better camera.

The future king of England had his formal wedding photos shot on a H4D-50.  Why is it now ok that Hasselblad is not maintaining its top end product line to the standards we all deserve.

Yes but there is a big market for a Canon 1DX for the sports photographers and they have big pockets for the best if it gives them an edge.
What is the market for 150MP medium format cameras? Making the best camera does not help if you go broke.
A top professional landscape photographer that I know would much rather have a wide format camera than a bigger megapixel camera in say 4:3. Half the pixels are wasted anyway.
Try getting one of those 140MP cameras in under 7Kg carry on luggage.

What portrait photo could an H4D-40 not take today? That market hasn't changed much. There is something is the saying that you can charge more for a bigger camera (:-)
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TechTalk

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Re: Hasselblad remembered they made the H platform...
« Reply #27 on: May 20, 2020, 04:37:55 pm »

Sorry TechTalk, that's a lot of bluster with lots of recycling.

I like to think of it as presenting facts to counter false assertions or misleading implications, and offering a realistic view of a broad marketplace consisting of many individuals with a variety of individual needs and desires that won't find complete satisfaction anywhere, but who will find a wide variety of options to choose from provided by different manufacturers each of whom seek to differentiate themselves with various form factors, options, and feature sets. I speak only for myself and from my own perspective and I'm not looking to take on the pretension of being the one that sets "the standards we all deserve". There are too many photographers in the world for me to do that and they are all unique.

Every manufacturer of high quality cameras and lenses will find plenty of online criticism of their products and thankfully it is often presented in a positive way. Sometimes it isn't. It's my personal belief that they are all deserving of respect and thoughtful consideration of their efforts to bring us the variety of options that we enjoy. This is especially true in the medium format space where Pentax, Leica, Fuji, Phase One, and Hasselblad all offer products of exceptional quality and unique designs. Individuals will find the system that suits them best.

I want to see Hasselblad do things & thrive.

And you have a special way of showing it.
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TechTalk

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Re: Hasselblad remembered they made the H platform...
« Reply #28 on: May 20, 2020, 05:36:24 pm »

The H glass has been silent since the 50mm II & 120mm II in 2010, with everything else being older.

You're leaving out the 24mm f/4.8 HCD lens which was announced at Photokina in 2012 along with the H5D platform and a new macro converter. The 24mm HCD is a stunning performer.

I invite you to compare it to the only other lens that wide for a medium-format DSLR which is the Leica Super-Elmar-S 24mm f/3.5. They are both amazing lenses.

https://cdn.hasselblad.com/datasheets/h-lenses/HCD24-Datasheet-en.pdf

https://us.leica-camera.com/Photography/Leica-S/S-Lenses/Prime-Lenses/Super-Elmar-S-24-f-3.5-ASPH

Or compare it to the Rodenstock HR Digaron-S 23mm f/5.6

http://www.rodenstock-photo.com/Archiv/Objektive%20digitale%20Fotografie%20e.pdf
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TechTalk

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Re: Hasselblad remembered they made the H platform...
« Reply #29 on: May 20, 2020, 07:02:02 pm »

The new shutters were in 2016, but it was the same optics & design.

I failed to mention the shutter speed upgrade in the post that you felt was "bluster" and "recycling". Thanks for the reminder. It is a nice upgrade isn't it?

It's also nice that all the lenses in the line from 24mm thru 300mm were upgraded to the new 1/2,000th top shutter speed. I wonder why the Phase One 150mm f/2.8 and 240mm f/4.5 have a slower top speed of 1/1,000th than the rest of their line.
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TechTalk

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Re: Hasselblad remembered they made the H platform...
« Reply #30 on: May 20, 2020, 08:17:32 pm »

Does the existing H glass render to the level expected of a flagship camera with that new sensor?

Make a fancy sticker that says 'ready to 150mp' and apply it to lenses post servicing.

This represents a fundamental misunderstanding of how image resolution works. Thanks for bringing it up as I'm sure there are many people with the same misunderstanding. Lenses, simply put, don't have megapixels.

To quote the brilliant Roger Cicala of Lensrentals.com, "I get asked several times a week if this lens or that is ‘capable of resolving’ this number of megapixels. Some people seem to think a lens should be ‘certified’ for a certain number of pixels or something. That’s not how it works. That’s not how any of it works."

"If you have a reasonably good lens and/or a reasonably good camera, upgrading either one upgrades your images. If you ask something like ‘is my camera going to out resolve this lens’ you sound silly."

The truth is that image resolution = system resolution (system MTF). The combination of lens + camera sensor each contribute, but are not competitors, in determining image resolution. One doesn't win over the other. Anyone that tells you that you need better lenses to see the improvements of a higher resolution camera is probably trying to sell you new lenses or is just misinformed. The same holds true if someone says that you need a better camera with more resolution to see the benefit of your latest super lens purchase.

To quote Roger one last time, "That’s not how it works. How it does work is very simple math: System MTF = Camera MTF x Lens MTF. MTF maxes at 1.0 because 1.0 is perfect. So let’s say my camera MTF is 0.7, and my lens MTF is 0.7, then my system MTF is 0.49 (Lens MTF x Camera MTF). This is actually a pretty reasonable system.

Now, let’s say I get a much better camera with much higher resolution; the camera MTF is 0.9. The system MTF with the same lens also increases: 0.7 X 0.9 = 0.63. On the other hand, I could do the same thing if I bought a much better lens and kept it on the same camera. The camera basically never ‘out resolves the lens’."

I suggest scrolling to the appendix at the bottom of this article on the Lensrentals.com blog for a fuller explanation. The entire article is also worth reading. You may also want to check out their full site while you're there.

https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2019/10/more-ultra-high-resolution-mtf-experiments/

My apologies for being so lazy as to just quote Roger's words, but he explains this better than I would. Plus, I hate to type and this is all very tedious. However, it does help explain why manufacturers aren't constantly releasing new lenses every time higher resolutions come along and why photographers often keep lenses when changing cameras.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2020, 11:51:29 pm by TechTalk »
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TechTalk

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Re: Hasselblad remembered they made the H platform...
« Reply #31 on: May 20, 2020, 08:33:16 pm »

- Take any lens, use the same formula, and upgrade the lens elements to shave 15% of the weight off

I'm curious as to the specifics of how your system for this works. Optical engineers around the world would love to see how you do this!
« Last Edit: May 20, 2020, 08:38:42 pm by TechTalk »
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TechTalk

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Re: Hasselblad remembered they made the H platform...
« Reply #32 on: May 20, 2020, 11:27:22 pm »

The -400c MS came out in 1/2018, but is built on the same platform that Hass invested years in, is a specialist tool.  MS is not something most photographers will ever consider.  So we're back at the flagship, most lusted after top of the line product still being the H6D-100c.

I'm confused. You say that multi-shot (otherwise known as pixelshift) "is not something most photographers will ever consider" and "is a specialist tool". You also seem to think that disqualifies the H6D-400c MS from being Hasselblad's flagship camera. Your reasoning eludes me.

If what you say is correct, I don't understand why Sony, Panasonic, Olympus, and Pentax would feature that in so many of their recent models. Are those camera models all specialist tools? I thought pixel shift was an additional feature in those cameras that extended the range of quality/resolution options to make them more appealing, given that "most photographers" will shoot static objects occasionally where this can be a benefit.

Of course we're talking about medium format here, but if my memory is correct, Fuji caused a stir at a conference earlier this year when they announced a development preview of 400 MP multi-shot (pixel shift) for the GFX 100. Would that additional option make it no longer their flagship medium format camera?

https://www.dpreview.com/news/7648446596/fujifilm-says-new-400mp-pixel-shift-mode-is-coming-to-its-gfx-100-camera-system

The most recent models for Hasselblad and Phase One were both introduced in 2018. Phase One with the XF IQ4 150MP (currently $51,990 with choice of prime lens) and Hasselblad with the H6D-400c MS ($47,995 body and back). Personally, I consider those to be the flagship DSLR models in each line. Both fine cameras capable of great image quality and comparably priced.

The Hasselblad H6D-400c MS offers the choices of 100 MP in single or 4-shot mode (full RGB color capture), plus 400 MP 6-shot mode, plus it accepts film backs, plus internal 4K RAW video. Phase One introduced the XF IQ4 150MP as a one-shot digital capture only (no film or multi-shot options), but recently they have added beta firmware that allows multiple captures without any pixel shift in order to reduce noise (noise reduction is a benefit of any multi-shot capture). I assume you still think that the IQ4 150 is the flagship. So, is it only when a pixel shift happens during multiple capture scenarios that a camera model would lose that distinction?

Out of curiosity, I went online to B&H to check their listings for best selling Hasselblad H models. #1 H model was H6D-50c, #2 H6D-400c MS, and #3 H6D-100c. It appears the least expensive model is the best seller, the most versatile (and most expensive) second place, the one in the middle comes in third. This can change (and likely does) at anytime. By the way, if you check this for yourself, be sure to actually select best seller from the "sort by" list even though that shows at the top by default. It doesn't actually sort that way until you choose it.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2020, 11:37:59 pm by TechTalk »
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George_Cleansman

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Re: Hasselblad remembered they made the H platform...
« Reply #33 on: May 21, 2020, 12:56:51 pm »

The Hasselblad H6D-100c and the Phase One XF IQ4-150 are excellent cameras. Thats all.  :)
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Joe Towner

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Re: Hasselblad remembered they made the H platform...
« Reply #34 on: May 21, 2020, 01:27:18 pm »

Wow Tech, you really are married to the defense of a company. Being a super fan isn't helpful, especially when trying to be objective.  Would you tell a friend that yes, they should spend $33,000 for a new Hasselblad camera? I couldn't.

Your exhaustive excuses don't make up for the platform being viewed as a dead end.  Everything from lighter lenses (see Canon 400mm/2.8 III) to lens resolving quality improvements to support higher resolution backs (Schneider Blue Rings, Nikon post D800), point out you have opinions that do not align with what other vendors are shipping.  I like Roger, he's one of my dealers ;D He'll tell you all about how lenses have improved over the last decade, so why are those improvements not showing up in H glass?

I stand by my statements, with my actual name.  I want Hasselblad to give us something to be happy about, something that makes existing H owners open their wallets for.  A reason to buy in further on the H platform, not sell before everyone else.  Backlight buttons on a 4 year old camera aren't it.

-Joe
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TechTalk

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Re: Hasselblad remembered they made the H platform...
« Reply #35 on: May 21, 2020, 07:32:30 pm »

Wow Tech, you really are married to the defense of a company. Being a super fan isn't helpful, especially when trying to be objective.

Clearly we have different attitudes. You look for every real or perceived or mistaken weakness to attack Hasselblad as a company in order to diminish their reputation and disparage one or more of their product lines. Sometimes this is done by someone that wants to sell you something else. My personal opinion, from what I can gather from your posts, is that Hasselblad hasn't followed your playbook regarding what they should make, when they should make it, and how to communicate about future product plans and it appears to greatly upset you. While you're obviously not alone in this attitude, you appear to take on the air of speaking for "all" of us. You don't. Neither do I. The world has a lot of photographers in it and it's a far larger world than you or me or all of the people that post on or visit this forum. And they're all making photographs of whatever they choose with whatever they choose.

The difference in attitude is that I don't expect to have much influence over the tools that the various manufacturers make available for me. I survey what's available, choose what works best for my particular needs, and try to use them to the best of my abilities. I'm happy there are so many great tools available! I use a product until I decide there is something that suits my current needs better and when finances permit move to that product instead. In the interim, I continue to use the former product that has given me good service and allowed me to pay my bills and earn a living. What I've never felt any urge to do is to go online and disparage some company or another for not doing what I think they should do. I wouldn't get any satisfaction from that. Others obviously do however.

As to my (product) marriages, the longest lasting ones over 20+ years, have been to: A 4 MP Leaf DCB II Live mounted on a Hasselblad EL which made excellent images for its time, but was a complicated array of proprietary cables, an RGB filter wheel hanging in front of the lens, AC power supply, custom card installed in the computer, and given all the potential points for failure, I held my breath every morning and hoped it would fire up and work the rest of the day without incident! But... it paid the bills and for itself. Next was a 6 MP Leaf Volare mounted to a Sinarcam which was attached to the rear standard of a Sinar P2. The Sinarcam housed the RGB filters internally and had a precise and durable rotary shutter. For me, it felt more integrated and was a definite improvement.

That back was replaced with a SinarBack 23HR (and later a 22 MP SinarBack 54H) which had the same 6 MP sensor; but instead of a monochrome sensor shooting thru an RGB filter wheel to produce color, it had a Bayer filter array that offered single-shot color, 4-shot full color resolution, and 16-shot higher resolution color. Plus, everything was Sinar; the back, camera, lenses, and software. By far the best system I had used up to that time! The multi-shot pixel shift and system integration gave me resolution options and a workflow that was smoother with fewer problems. I was very happy to have an integrated multi-shot solution that gave me resolution options! But (there's always a but)... it was big AC powered studio only system.

So, along comes the Hasselblad H1 and Imacon 528c that gives me the same multi-shot capabilities in a much smaller package that can travel and even shoot hand held when needed. They also worked well together.

Not too long after, Hasselblad and Imacon get married and eventually have a baby called the H3D series. Hasselblad states their intention to focus on total system integration in order to deliver greater precision and expand system capabilities beyond what hybrid back and body systems can provide. Hey, I'm on board that train, especially with multi-shot included in the mix! Other people freak out! Especially on this forum. But for me (the only person I speak for), it was the right path. And for me, the system has worked well and progressed to my satisfaction for my needs. I'm not a "super fan" of anything outside of my family and friends, but I'm happy to work with whatever equipment best suits my needs without feeling a need to put something else down.

Now those were the marriages. There were shorter affairs with other products; a Kodak DCS back comes to mind along with others that will go unmentioned.

I'm obviously subjective when it comes to choosing equipment the works for me. We all are. What I attempt to remain objective about is the broader market that serves other peoples needs as well as my own. What I don't attempt to do is advise companies what they should be doing for me on a forum. There are plenty of others doing that already and like I said, it wouldn't give me any satisfaction. Besides, I wouldn't want the job of being the advisor (or CEO) of a camera maker. I have more than enough stress in my life already!

As to being a defender, you could make the same scattershot attacks against any medium format DSLR camera maker using some combination of those you aim at Hasselblad (product delays, firmware upgrades needed, variations in lens line age and performance, features or resolutions that another manufacturer has that they don't, not broadcasting what their next products are going to be while they're still selling their current products, etc.). You choose to single out Hasselblad. In this case it was a brand I'm familiar with in a market that I'm familiar with, so I corrected false statements and assumptions and provided my own perspective. I understand that you don't like it and want to lash out at me. That doesn't matter to me. I'm only concerned with how friends, family, and clients view me. As I've alluded to before, I don't have any emotional attachments here.

Now, if the same sort of attacks are focused on another manufacturer and no one else stepped up, I might volunteer my time. I don't care much for false statements or innuendo or other types of attacks that I think are lacking in merit and I'm reasonably observant of what all the manufacturers have done and are currently doing in this space. So... let me know if you think I'm needed for a different perspective on things.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2020, 08:08:43 pm by TechTalk »
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Re: Hasselblad remembered they made the H platform...
« Reply #36 on: May 21, 2020, 07:36:01 pm »

The Hasselblad H6D-100c and the Phase One XF IQ4-150 are excellent cameras. Thats all.  :)

I like the way you think. It's refreshing.

I also think that Leica, Pentax, and Fuji make excellent cameras as well.
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Re: Hasselblad remembered they made the H platform...
« Reply #37 on: May 22, 2020, 02:47:33 pm »

- Take the HCD 24mm & HCD 28mm full coverage
- HCD 35-90mm - get it to full coverage
The 28mm f4 is very good too (far far better than the P1) but it’s image circle doesn’t fully cover

HC Lenses are designed to cover the full 645 film format which is 42 x 56 mm. The 40.0 x 53.4 mm sensors that we now call "full-frame" are smaller than the 42 x 56 mm film size. Hasselblad H series cameras are unique in the current world of digital medium format cameras as you can shoot both film and digital with the same camera.

HCD Lenses were designed for digital sensors all of which are smaller than 645 film format.

HCD lenses are unique in design in that Hasselblad incorporated the fact that vignetting can be corrected digitally into the initial lens design. Why? Because designing a lens with some degree of under correction of vignetting opens the potential for better correction of factors that must be corrected optically, as every lens design is a long series of trade-offs. This approach also allowed for potential reductions in size, weight, and complexity. HCD lenses will therefor show slightly more vignetting than would normally be expected if vignetting correction is turned off in the software that you use.

The largest digital sensors at the time of design were 36.7 x 49 mm (somewhat smaller that the 40.0 x 53.4 mm sensors that we now call full-frame even though that is still slightly smaller than the 42 x 56 mm film size). This 37 x 49 mm sensor size is what the HCD lens designs were optimized for, although the image circles extend well beyond just those sensor dimensions. (This is not unique to Hasselblad. The Rodenstock HR Digaron-S 23mm f/5.6, introduced in 2008, that Phase One now sells for their new XT camera according to Rodenstock's published data has a "maximum recommended sensor format" of 33 x 44 mm or 37 x 49 mm with reduced movements. Obviously it can be used with the larger sensors; you're just pushing closer to edge of the image circle. See page 4 here: http://www.rodenstock-photo.com/Archiv/Objektive%20digitale%20Fotografie%20e.pdf )

Using HCD lenses with full-frame digital sensors is NOT a problem. They absolutely do provide full frame coverage. Hasselblad does make users aware that there may be slightly more vignetting (fully compensated for by digital lens correction in software), but it in no way limits their use.

Hasselblad does not recommend HCD lenses for use with FILM. The film cannot apply the vignetting lens correction and the film size is even larger than "full-frame" sensors.

Read up a little. There is a brochure that shows the three HCD lenses with images showing the full coverage with and without the digital vignetting correction applied. (Note: images in the PDF are low resolution so that the PDF file is smaller for download)...

https://cdn.hasselblad.com/72678dc2-cb76-4fd5-aa5a-8bca7f8901b9_hcd+and+large+sensors.pdf

* Phocus lets you choose between HCD images taken with "full frame" sensors being displayed as full frame or cropped to 37 x 49 mm with a default selection in the software. Anytime images are displayed cropped you can turn the crop off to see the full image. It's covered in the brochure above, but not everyone takes the time to read it all.

If you prefer, here's a test run by an H6D-100c owner...

https://nordhaugphotography.wordpress.com/2017/01/21/h6d-100c-and-the-hcd-lenses/

If you want to check out his landscapes he does some lovely work!  https://www.nordhaugphotography.com/blog
« Last Edit: May 22, 2020, 05:46:45 pm by TechTalk »
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Re: Hasselblad remembered they made the H platform...
« Reply #38 on: May 22, 2020, 04:08:10 pm »

I like Roger, he's one of my dealers ;D He'll tell you all about how lenses have improved over the last decade

I'm glad to hear that you're a customer of Roger Cicala and Lensrentals. They're a fantastic company and he and his team have extraordinary knowledge! When it comes to being told all about lenses, I think I'll get it straight from Roger's blog and his geek articles rather than summarized second hand. But thanks anyway.

You really should share with him your insights on how you can "Take any lens, use the same formula, and upgrade the lens elements to shave 15% of the weight off" or how the age of a lens design is used to measure image quality and resolution capacity. I'm sure that he'd be interested in these and your other optical points of view. You might even get a grin from him like the one you used above.

Anyway, we do share a liking for him and his company. Since that's the case, here's a review from Lensrentals you can read to pass the time.

https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2019/10/first-impressions-with-the-hasselblad-x1d-ii/
« Last Edit: May 22, 2020, 06:31:35 pm by TechTalk »
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Re: Hasselblad remembered they made the H platform...
« Reply #39 on: May 22, 2020, 07:33:04 pm »

lens resolving quality improvements to support higher resolution backs (Schneider Blue Rings

The only "Blue Ring" lenses that have changed optically from the previous Mamiya/Phase One/Schneider labeled lenses are the 35mm, 45mm, and 150mm f/2.8. Two are redesigns of previously offered lenses (35 and 45) and one a newly designed 150mm f/2.8.

The rest use the same optical design as before. This doesn't mean that the older designs aren't just fine to use on later higher resolution backs or are not generally excellent lenses. They do work just fine and are generally excellent lenses. As with every single line of lenses on the planet, some are better than others.

The newest updates from Hasselblad are the redesign of two of their previously offered lenses (50mm II and 120mm II) and extending the wide-angle range to include a 24mm.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2020, 07:53:11 pm by TechTalk »
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