8 Year old printer, Canon iPF 8300 repair or replace?

[routlaw]

As the title suggest I am considering the replacement of my Canon 8300 printer which has served me well for some 8 years. However it is due for some repairs and quite a bit of ink replacements. I could easily spend $1000 and or a lot more within the next 30-60 days. Its my understanding that inks can be discontinued after 10ish years. Also over the last month the printer has been returning an error code that usually will go away after a hard reboot. Tech support says the left print head needs to be replaced, but what if its also something internally within the printer itself not recognizing the existing head. No way of knowing for sure without replacing the head.

While I'm not excited to spend $4K at the moment, intuition tells me it might be time for a replacement printer.

All thoughts and ideas would be welcome info on this. Thanks in advance

[NAwlins_Contrarian]

Not an answer or recommendation but just a couple of items for your consideration:

Its my understanding that inks can be discontinued after 10ish years.

AFAIK, the successor iPF8400 used the same inks. It was only replaced by the Pro-4000 in 2016. So if its inks remain in production for ten years after it went out of production, you should have at least another six years of ink available for your iPF8300.

I'm not excited to spend $4K at the moment ....

Assuming you meant another Canon, there are still some Pro-4000 printers out there for $3500, which Canon will finance interest-free; or you can get its replacement the Pro-4100 for $4500; or you could maybe step down to the eight-ink Pro-4100S for $3300.

Decisions, decisions ...

[routlaw]

Thanks NAwlins. Good point about the 8400 inks and their lifespan. Yes definitely the consideration would be another Canon, but would never downgrade to the lesser models over what I have or what's available. With rebates on the 4100 they can be purchased for $4k currently, and until recently there was another $800 mail in rebate which brought the 4100 to $3200.

One would think with the current situation these companies might be offering all sorts of rebates and incentives but oddly enough its not here today.

[deanwork]

I have one the same general age, mine is 9 years old. It runs like new so maybe I’m biased because I love the output and it’s served me so well.  I’ve had 10 large format printers and this one has by far been the most durable and trouble free of them all. Built like a tank. People seem to freak out every time the print heads need replacing. Yea they aren’t cheap. If I were in your shoes I would replace the head as these machines were built better in Japan before that horrible earthquake and simply have less issues than the IPf 8400s.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Printhead-Print-Head-For-Canon-PF-05-IPF6300-6350-6400-8300-8310-9400-Printer/124111853556?hash=item1ce5a497f4:g:QjQAAOSwD75eZhmP

What I would do is look for a head on EBay. You can’t put a used head in so they have to be unused. I would also try Alibaba which sells a lot of print heads. I mean the most you have to loose is 2 or $300.00. It is worth the gamble and I’d much rather have one of these than the newer models.  I do know when a print head starts to go bad, like maybe one channel missing, you start to get all kinds of crazy errors. It scares a lot of people and they throw them out. Did you do print a nozzle check pattern to see if nozzles are missing? That is job one. If you are missing a nozzle or it looks like it’s fading out that is the issue. If your not missing nozzles it’s something else.

Thanks NAwlins. Good point about the 8400 inks and their lifespan. Yes definitely the consideration would be another Canon, but would never downgrade to the lesser models over what I have or what's available. With rebates on the 4100 they can be purchased for $4k currently, and until recently there was another $800 mail in rebate which brought the 4100 to $3200.

One would think with the current situation these companies might be offering all sorts of rebates and incentives but oddly enough its not here today.

[routlaw]

Thanks for the informative comments, appreciated. I would like to respond to a few of them.

As previously stated my 8300 has served me well, but not without a significant amount of repairs though nowhere near as troubling as the LF Epson's I've owned in the past. The 8300 is my 3rd LF printer, the two previous were Epson's, both RIP at the local landfill. Please understand having changed the print heads in my 8300 perhaps close to a dozen times I am not freaking out. Heck in the first year or two both print heads were changed at least twice each. Canon claimed 5 years and I was lucky if I got 5-6 months on each of them. Rumor was that Canon had batches of the heads made in China but after so many replacements and after the earthquake brought manufacturing back to Japan. I believe but cannot prove the same situation also exist for the printers themselves. IOW's its my understanding these new printers are made in Japan, and are made and designed to a much higher standard than even the 8300/8400's.

Understand too I am NOT interested in the 8400, only 4100 assuming I don't repair my 8300. What concerns me about this head replacement this time are the error codes that have nothing to do with clogged heads. For all I know the real issue might be something on the printer itself not recognizing the head. Yes I have performed dozens of nozzle checks, that is NOT the issue. Even the Canon CS rep told me a perfectly performing head might create such errors. But do we know its the head or the printers other circuit boards?

What troubles me about the deeply discounted printer heads in your link is we don't know where they were made? Or more accurately I don't know. I would rather pay a higher price for one I know was made in Japan given my previous experience with the ones manufactured in China. FWIW I have successfully installed used heads in the past with no issues. Taken another step on more than one occasion I have taken the printer head out, manually cleaned then reinstalled with great success. One can do this via the cutter replacement command on board. I got tired of buying printer heads once or twice a year that were supposed to last 5 years. Its possible I have spent more on head replacements and the few other repairs I've done than what I paid for the printer itself.

Worth pointing out even with the numerous issues I've had with my 8300, it really has served me well much better than the Epson's. I believe Epson is a very good company I just would not ever want to own another one of their printers. On the dead desktop versions alone I could probably fill up the back of my pickup truck.

Much to consider still.

Thanks

I have one the same general age, mine is 9 years old. It runs like new so maybe I’m biased because I love the output and it’s saved me so well.  I’ve had 10 large format printers and this one has by far been the most durable and trouble free of them all. Built like a tank. People seem to freak out every time the print heads need replacing. Yea they aren’t cheap. If I were in your shoes I would replace the head as these machines were built better in Japan before that horrible earthquake and simply have less issues than the IPf 8400s.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Printhead-Print-Head-For-Canon-PF-05-IPF6300-6350-6400-8300-8310-9400-Printer/124111853556?hash=item1ce5a497f4:g:QjQAAOSwD75eZhmP

What I would do is look for a head on EBay. You can’t put a used head in so they have to be unused. I would also try Alibaba which sells a lot of print heads. I mean the most you have to loose is 2 or $300.00. It is worth the gamble and I’d much rather have one of these than the newer models.  I do know when a print head starts to go bad, like maybe one channel missing, you start to get all kinds of crazy errors. It scares a lot of people and they throw them out. Did you do print a nozzle check pattern to see if nozzles are missing? That is job one. If you are missing a nozzle or it looks like it’s fading out that is the issue. If your not missing nozzles it’s something else.

[deanwork]

Wow I’ve never had to replace heads more than every two years at most, usually more than that. But I don’t do production work week in and week out either. I had one head go bad right after the warranty expired and it indeed was one of the Chinese made heads made right after the earthquake. Canon replaced it immediately and their guy admitted there were a lot of the bad heads out there that embarrassed them. I would not buy one on EBay made in China. You can just ask the seller.

If your nozzle checks look good and you are still getting strange error messages it sounds like the head board.

The newer canon 4000 seems to be solid, but they have reduced the green gamut when they removed the green ink and put in that gloss enhancer that seems to work ok on rc media but from what I’ve heard less than great on fiber gloss media. But the main thing that disgusted me was the significant loss in longevity of the new inks for minimal gamut increase. Permanence is not a big issue for many people.

I would have a hard time deciding right now between the most recent 9570 Epson and the most recent Canon. The Epson might be the best printer they have ever made but I won’t buy anything that hasn’t been around in people’s studios for at least a year. We have no idea what Canon will release Next , and how soon. It doesn’t seem like a great time to be releasing anything new .

John

Thanks for the informative comments, appreciated. I would like to respond to a few of them.

As previously stated my 8300 has served me well, but not without a significant amount of repairs though nowhere near as troubling as the LF Epson's I've owned in the past. The 8300 is my 3rd LF printer, the two previous were Epson's, both RIP at the local landfill. Please understand having changed the print heads in my 8300 perhaps close to a dozen times I am not freaking out. Heck in the first year or two both print heads were changed at least twice each. Canon claimed 5 years and I was lucky if I got 5-6 months on each of them. Rumor was that Canon had batches of the heads made in China but after so many replacements and after the earthquake brought manufacturing back to Japan. I believe but cannot prove the same situation also exist for the printers themselves. IOW's its my understanding these new printers are made in Japan, and are made and designed to a much higher standard than even the 8300/8400's.

Understand too I am NOT interested in the 8400, only 4100 assuming I don't repair my 8300. What concerns me about this head replacement this time are the error codes that have nothing to do with clogged heads. For all I know the real issue might be something on the printer itself not recognizing the head. Yes I have performed dozens of nozzle checks, that is NOT the issue. Even the Canon CS rep told me a perfectly performing head might create such errors. But do we know its the head or the printers other circuit boards?

What troubles me about the deeply discounted printer heads in your link is we don't know where they were made? Or more accurately I don't know. I would rather pay a higher price for one I know was made in Japan given my previous experience with the ones manufactured in China. FWIW I have successfully installed used heads in the past with no issues. Taken another step on more than one occasion I have taken the printer head out, manually cleaned then reinstalled with great success. One can do this via the cutter replacement command on board. I got tired of buying printer heads once or twice a year that were supposed to last 5 years. Its possible I have spent more on head replacements and the few other repairs I've done than what I paid for the printer itself.

Worth pointing out even with the numerous issues I've had with my 8300, it really has served me well much better than the Epson's. I believe Epson is a very good company I just would not ever want to own another one of their printers. On the dead desktop versions alone I could probably fill up the back of my pickup truck.

Much to consider still.

Thanks

[routlaw]

The two heads I have in my printer now have lasted me by far the longest. Both have been installed for 2-3 years which has surprised me greatly.

On one occasion I had to make a major repair, virtually the entire printer was dissembled from the right side where all of the heads motor etc are situated. Can't remember the part name but it had to do with where the heads rested when not in use. Capping station maybe along with a few other things. That was an ordeal putting it mildly and another several hundred bucks down the tubes.

Have spent a good part of the day researching old reviews and comparisons of the newer vs our older printers and by all accounts not withstanding some issues with the gloss optimizer the jury seems to be in that the 4000/4100 is a much better printer. True there is some green color gamut reduction, but from what I can discern its not huge let alone a make or break deal. The ability to make color profiles from within the printer itself is a really nice feature and time saver, assuming it performs to the same level as my i1Pro system.

Just yesterday I had a printer salesman tell me the new Epson printers are meant as "proofing" printers rather than replacing their fine art printers. I'm not making this up, but it is worth noting their P series of printers are still being made and sold. For the cost difference I'm just not seeing the benefit with the 9750 over the 4100, not to mention clogged ink jet heads. Man that got tiresome in the early years. Given some of the issues I've read about with the new Epson's I would personally choose the Canons still hands down.

Anyway thanks again for the comments.

Wow I’ve never had to replace heads more than every two years at most, usually more than that. But I don’t do production work week in and week out either. I had one head go bad right after the warranty expired and it indeed was one of the Chinese made heads made right after the earthquake. Canon replaced it immediately and their guy admitted there were a lot of the bad heads out there that embarrassed them. I would not buy one on EBay made in China. You can just ask the seller.

If your nozzle checks look good and you are still getting strange error messages it sounds like the head board.

The newer canon 4000 seems to be solid, but they have reduced the green gamut when they removed the green ink and put in that gloss enhancer that seems to work ok on rc media but from what I’ve heard less than great on fiber gloss media. But the main thing that disgusted me was the significant loss in longevity of the new inks for minimal gamut increase. Permanence is not a big issue for many people.

I would have a hard time deciding right now between the most recent 9570 Epson and the most recent Canon. The Epson might be the best printer they have ever made but I won’t buy anything that hasn’t been around in people’s studios for at least a year. We have no idea what Canon will release Next , and how soon. It doesn’t seem like a great time to be releasing anything new .

John

[mcpix]

I'm curious what error you're getting as I'm in a similar situation with my 9.5 year old 8300. Just before Christmas, the printer tried to do a head check and came back with an alert to replace the left print head and an error code. I replaced the left print head, but whenever the printer tried to do a head check, I would get an error code. I found a new head management sensor online and replaced it, but I'm still getting an error code whenever it tries to automatically do a head check. One work around that seems to be working is if I run a test print every couple of days, it doesn't do the head check as often. So far, it's still printing fine, but I wonder how long I can keep doing this. The service manual says the next thing to check is the main board, but if I have to go that far, I'll probably just look at a new printer instead. I'm also wondering about the "hard reset" you mention. How do you do that?

[Panagiotis]

Have spent a good part of the day researching old reviews and comparisons of the newer vs our older printers and by all accounts not withstanding some issues with the gloss optimizer the jury seems to be in that the 4000/4100 is a much better printer. True there is some green color gamut reduction, but from what I can discern its not huge let alone a make or break deal. The ability to make color profiles from within the printer itself is a really nice feature and time saver, assuming it performs to the same level as my i1Pro system.

Just a note on this. You cannot make icc profiles for papers with the PRO 4000/4100. There is no internal spectro in these printers. The color calibration that you probably read about is a procedure to bring the printer in a well known state. It cannot replace the i1Pro.

[deanwork]

Exactly. That would be the HP Z 9+. I’ve seen the results from my own files and it produces great internal profiles for both color and black and white rapidly in a few minutes and totally removes human error. .  I was shocked at how good the new dual drop tech is. I didn’t think you could remove for instance the light gray and produce subtlety like that. They are still way beyond Epson and Canon in regard to the auto profiling. If you use a lot of various media, and alternative stuff like I do it’s a big deal and you become dependent on it quickly. It not only makes the icc profiles quickly that don’t have to be updated regularly, but more importantly it does a separate linearization for each custom media profile, which you can quickly accomplish for each new printhead or roll of media. The other fantastic thing about the Z series of course is the ease and cheap cost of replacing the print heads.

Just a note on this. You cannot make icc profiles for papers with the PRO 4000/4100. There is no internal spectro in these printers. The color calibration that you probably read about is a procedure to bring the printer in a well known state. It cannot replace the i1Pro.

[routlaw]

The error code ends with 0249, which the tech rep at Canon said was the left printer head needing a replacement. He also went on to say a 0250 error code meant a right printer head replacement.

What I meant by a "hard reboot" is, turn off the printer, allow it to power down properly then unplug from any AC and let stand for a minute or so, then plug back in and power. I was able to do this several times over the last month with success meaning the issue went away but the error code eventually kept popping up after a few days or so. This last episode of rebooting did NOT eliminate the error code.

Hope this helps and good luck with yours.

I'm curious what error you're getting as I'm in a similar situation with my 9.5 year old 8300. Just before Christmas, the printer tried to do a head check and came back with an alert to replace the left print head and an error code. I replaced the left print head, but whenever the printer tried to do a head check, I would get an error code. I found a new head management sensor online and replaced it, but I'm still getting an error code whenever it tries to automatically do a head check. One work around that seems to be working is if I run a test print every couple of days, it doesn't do the head check as often. So far, it's still printing fine, but I wonder how long I can keep doing this. The service manual says the next thing to check is the main board, but if I have to go that far, I'll probably just look at a new printer instead. I'm also wondering about the "hard reset" you mention. How do you do that?

[routlaw]

I stand corrected regarding the onboard spectro and color management issue. Just re-read for clarification, probably another episode of my poor reading comprehension the first time around.

At this point, I'm hedging toward trying to repair my existing 8300, although for the most part would prefer to just buy the newer 4100. The reason for this decision, these things are heavy and require 3-4 people to move the printer body onto the stand and into a studio. Since I work from my home at this point I don't feel comfortable trying to recruit my neighbors to help with this given the current emphasis on social distancing.

I do have some ambivalence going this route anticipating the issue could be as much with the printer as it is with the left printer head.

Thanks

[deanwork]

That’s another reason I still have my 8300. It took four of us to move that in my space and even then it almost broke our backs.

I stand corrected regarding the onboard spectro and color management issue. Just re-read for clarification, probably another episode of my poor reading comprehension the first time around.

At this point, I'm hedging toward trying to repair my existing 8300, although for the most part would prefer to just buy the newer 4100. The reason for this decision, these things are heavy and require 3-4 people to move the printer body onto the stand and into a studio. Since I work from my home at this point I don't feel comfortable trying to recruit my neighbors to help with this given the current emphasis on social distancing.

I do have some ambivalence going this route anticipating the issue could be as much with the printer as it is with the left printer head.

Thanks

[mcpix]

At this point, I'm hedging toward trying to repair my existing 8300, although for the most part would prefer to just buy the newer 4100. The reason for this decision, these things are heavy and require 3-4 people to move the printer body onto the stand and into a studio. Since I work from my home at this point I don't feel comfortable trying to recruit my neighbors to help with this given the current emphasis on social distancing.

Thanks for the idea of the hard reset. I did turn the printer off, but I never unplugged it. I'll see if that gets rid of the error code.

I'm in the same boat. It's not just buying a new printer, it's also how to get rid of  the old printer. When I originally purchased my 8300 I had just sold both my Epson 7800 and Epson 9800 so it worked out perfectly. Now that the rebates are off, I will probably wait and see what they (Canon) do next.

[routlaw]

Lucky you, never had any luck trying to sell any of my other LF printers. Might try again later in the summer when world gets its wheels put back on, if that ever happens. At that point I will reconsider upgrading printers again. One would think these companies would be discounting products deeply in this economic situation.

Good luck

Thanks for the idea of the hard reset. I did turn the printer off, but I never unplugged it. I'll see if that gets rid of the error code.

I'm in the same boat. It's not just buying a new printer, it's also how to get rid of  the old printer. When I originally purchased my 8300 I had just sold both my Epson 7800 and Epson 9800 so it worked out perfectly. Now that the rebates are off, I will probably wait and see what they (Canon) do next.

[dpirazzi]

As someone who is still using an 8300 for low volume printing, I'm hopeful you find a fix. Please let us know how it goes. My 8300 has only had each head replaced once and still works great.

Last time a head was giving me errors, I was low on several inks and seriously considered letting it go. But I really, really like this printer and did not want to go through the work/cost associated with a switch out. It has been two years since replacing that head and it is still going strong.

Every situation is different, mine could have easily turned out differently. Not looking forward to the next time. I think I'll send a couple of prints through it right now!

Good Luck,

Dave

[mearussi]

I'm still using my ipf6400 for the simple reason I want the 200+ year display life of the older ink set. But if Canon's having reduced the display life doesn't bother you then go for a new printer. 

[routlaw]

This the first I’ve heard about archival stability with the new ink sets. Just curious where does this info come from and or the proof of such claims. Thanks

[mearussi]

This the first I’ve heard about archival stability with the new ink sets. Just curious where does this info come from and or the proof of such claims. Thanks

Sort of common knowledge for the last several years on this site, but the actual testing data comes from Mark McCormick's Aardenburg site:

https://www.aardenburg-imaging.com/

It's free to join and then you can view his test results. He's pretty much considered the definitive guru on print longevity.

Not that the new Canon inkset is horrible, but it has dropped by around 40% from 200+ years to around 120 years. The commonly accepted reason is that it was supposed to increase the gamut, but as it only did so slightly it makes me wonder if the new ink set is also less expensive to manufacture.

It's also the main reason I've lost interest in Canon's new printers and have (reluctantly) turned back to Epson, especially given their new black double printing technology, for my next printer. I'm just waiting for Epson to get the software bugs out of it.

[stockjock]

(reluctantly) turned back to Epson, especially given their new black double printing technology, for my next printer. I'm just waiting for Epson to get the software bugs out of it.

Mike, what do you mean by black double printing technology.  I hadn't heard about that and couldn't find anything googling that term.