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Author Topic: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political  (Read 208706 times)

Craig Lamson

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #7340 on: September 27, 2020, 09:03:20 pm »

You're missing the point. These are extra deaths (leading to excess mortality), partly avoidable if people would behave less selfish or stupid.   

Again, you're missing the point. It's triggered by human behavior. My country is seeing a return to higher numbers, because (mainly young) people are not social distancing as much as before. That comes after relaxation of a number of guidelines in order to open up the economy after the hospitals and ICUs were no longer swamped by COVID-19 cases (which occupy ICU capacity 3x as long as average ICU patients). These younger people spread the virus to the older population, who are more likely to die from the infection..

Swedish mentality and behavior makes it interesting to compare with other cultures, but the degree of urbanisation may also play a role.

No Bart, they are not extra deaths, they are just deaths.  Perhaps they could have been postponed but they were slated for death regardless. We have no idea when our sell by date is up.  Some say God knows the day and time of your death and that it is pre ordained.   Maybe that’s true and maybe not but the fact remains its the world we live in.

I’m not missing anything and yes it’s all about human behavior and I’ve said that for a very long time.  Life is about assessing risk and deciding what level you are will to accept. It’s all personal and again like it our not it’s the world we live in.

That’s why a lot of people are getting pretty ticked that their financial lives have been ruined to protect such a small percentage of our population that do not survive this virus.  It’s no wonder, it’s human nature and a lot of people resent the naked power grabs but some leaders.

As I mentioned my household is compromised.  We have assessed the risks and we have tailored our life accordingly. Others may choose differently than we do and that’s their choice.

Years from now I suspect history will write the lockdowns did more damage than Covid. 



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TechTalk

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #7341 on: September 27, 2020, 10:02:12 pm »

The Republican national plan for health insurance is now the Republican national plan for a pandemic. The plan is... Well, we all have to die sometime.
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Craig Lamson

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #7342 on: September 27, 2020, 10:15:16 pm »

The Republican national plan for health insurance is now the Republican national plan for a pandemic. The plan is... Well, we all have to die sometime.

And we do.  You too.
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Craig Lamson

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #7343 on: September 28, 2020, 08:31:18 am »

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faberryman

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #7345 on: September 28, 2020, 10:53:22 am »

A view shared by many.....

What If Our Medical Overlords Reacted to a Common Cold Like They Have to Coronavirus?

https://townhall.com/columnists/scottmorefield/2020/09/28/what-if-the-media-politicians-and-our-medical-overlords-reacted-to-a-common-cold-like-they-have-to-coronavirus-n2577028

I took the liberty to quote from the excellent piece of analysis you linked to above:

" I outlined the scenario above because, as you’ve probably guessed, we could play that game with most any highly contagious virus, no matter how lethal or benign, and still just as easily convince Joe Biden to hide in his basement with his face muzzle wrapped around his eyeballs like a mummy."

After seeing the type of source you and others happily drink from, as the one above, and its utmost quality and insightfulness, I am not longer surprised to see where you are coming from. Distopyan indeed. And truly sad.

200,000 + and counting, should change at least some mindsets, but apparently it does not matter how benign or deadly the thing is.

kamma1

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #7346 on: September 28, 2020, 11:22:28 am »


No, you don't have "many more choices"  You stay locked down or you continue to live.  But in the sprit of discussion I'll be happy to hear all the many ohter choices you think we have.

Well, I spent March to May under an extremely severe lockdown.  I nevertheless continued to live in that period.  Then lockdown was gradually eased in stages, not suddenly ended. 

In the summer we took a vacation.  Now my wife is back teaching, and we're living pretty much the same way as before the pandemic.  Inside another building, or in a situation where maintaining distance is difficult, we're required to wear a mask.  It's not a big deal.   Isn't that different from being under complete lockdown? 

Peter McLennan

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #7347 on: September 28, 2020, 11:27:40 am »

I took the liberty to quote from the excellent piece of analysis you linked to above:

" I outlined the scenario above because, as you’ve probably guessed, we could play that game with most any highly contagious virus, no matter how lethal or benign, and still just as easily convince Joe Biden to hide in his basement with his face muzzle wrapped around his eyeballs like a mummy."

After seeing the type of source you and others happily drink from, as the one above, and its utmost quality and insightfulness, I am not longer surprised to see where you are coming from. ...

One is tempted to quote the old computer maxim:  GIGO.
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MattBurt

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #7348 on: September 28, 2020, 11:31:51 am »

Yeah, we all got to experience the lockdown so we can continue to live until we have a better solution for the long term.
It's just that some selfish and impatient people act like babies (heavily armed babies) and can't accept that sometimes we need to make a sacrifice for the greater good. That greater good of course also includes you as well which should appeal to your selfish nature, at least a little.
 
In doing so they prolong this whole ordeal for everyone. The definition of irony.
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #7349 on: September 28, 2020, 11:39:09 am »

No Bart, they are not extra deaths, they are just deaths.  Perhaps they could have been postponed but they were slated for death regardless. We have no idea when our sell by date is up.  Some say God knows the day and time of your death and that it is pre ordained.   Maybe that’s true and maybe not but the fact remains its the world we live in.

You're wrong, they are extra. One just has to look at the CDC excess mortality figures.
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm

This is a novel virus, and given the opportunity, it will kill many people and (possibly permanently) affect the health of others.
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MattBurt

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #7350 on: September 28, 2020, 12:12:18 pm »

You're wrong, they are extra. One just has to look at the CDC excess mortality figures.
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm

This is a novel virus, and given the opportunity, it will kill many people and (possibly permanently) affect the health of others.

Well we are all going to die one day. Why does it matter if it's COVID 19 today or a drunk driver tomorrow?
We might as well ignore all the laws designed to protect people from untimely deaths due to the carelessness of others.
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Craig Lamson

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #7351 on: September 28, 2020, 01:17:37 pm »

You're wrong, they are extra. One just has to look at the CDC excess mortality figures.
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm

This is a novel virus, and given the opportunity, it will kill many people and (possibly permanently) affect the health of others.

Nope there are nothing "extra" about these deaths .  They are the result of a virus we are told is natural occuring.  As such these as deaths are the result of nature.  Nothing "extra' abpout them at all. 
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Craig Lamson

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #7352 on: September 28, 2020, 01:25:36 pm »

Well we are all going to die one day. Why does it matter if it's COVID 19 today or a drunk driver tomorrow?
We might as well ignore all the laws designed to protect people from untimely deaths due to the carelessness of others.

People ignore laws all the time. Welcome to human nature.  The last I've read, though I'm not up on all states, there have been no real laws passed by state legislature and then enacted into law in regards to Covid. If ther eare I'm happey to be enlightened.  Imperial edict from Govenrors are not law, as a number of court cases have proven. 

People are going to continue to make individual choices in respect to Covid.  They are going to weigh their risks and choose accordingly.  Thats a fact of life.  It happens with Drunk Driving, which is codified in law.  Why should it be any different with Covid.

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MattBurt

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #7353 on: September 28, 2020, 01:44:42 pm »

People ignore laws all the time. Welcome to human nature.  The last I've read, though I'm not up on all states, there have been no real laws passed by state legislature and then enacted into law in regards to Covid. If ther eare I'm happey to be enlightened.  Imperial edict from Govenrors are not law, as a number of court cases have proven. 

People are going to continue to make individual choices in respect to Covid.  They are going to weigh their risks and choose accordingly.  Thats a fact of life.  It happens with Drunk Driving, which is codified in law.  Why should it be any different with Covid.

So are you saying you agree there should be laws for COVID protection like there are for drunk driving?
Or are you saying that since people still drive drunk, those laws are useless and shouldn't exist?
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Craig Lamson

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #7354 on: September 28, 2020, 02:03:23 pm »

So are you saying you agree there should be laws for COVID protection like there are for drunk driving?
Or are you saying that since people still drive drunk, those laws are useless and shouldn't exist?

If you want to pretend you can make people do things like wear a mask, you better have a real law to back it up.

And yes people will continue to break laws.  Make all you want, justy don't expect everyone to obey.   

Covid is all about personal risk assessment and making personal choices based on that assessment.  Look around you.  Is everyone heeding the advice of their Govenors?  We may not like that they make choices we would not make but they will and we simply need to find a way to get on with our lives in spite of it.

I try and make safe Covids choices for me and my family and I respect that others will make different choices that might endanger me.  I can't change that, and quite framkly I dont even thin, a real law would change it for some.  So the best that I can do...really anyone can do...is to just try and stay away from dangerous situations.

We can't expect Government to fix this.  It's on us. 

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faberryman

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #7355 on: September 28, 2020, 04:05:15 pm »

We can't expect Government to fix this.  It's on us.

Which is why I have been working diligently in my basement on a vaccine. I'll be running trials on my cat next week. The thing is the government has spent 9 billion dollars so far to develop and manufacture a vaccine, yet they won't reimburse me $39.95 for my chemistry set. It's not fair I say, it's not fair. The other thing is I might have to buy a new cat.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/08/08/feds-spending-more-than-9-billion-covid-19-vaccine-candidates/5575206002/

In the interest of full disclosure, I don't really have a cat. I'll be using the neighbors' cat. It really annoys my dogs.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2020, 05:36:49 pm by faberryman »
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MattBurt

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #7356 on: September 28, 2020, 04:08:03 pm »

If you want to pretend you can make people do things like wear a mask, you better have a real law to back it up.

And yes people will continue to break laws.  Make all you want, justy don't expect everyone to obey.   

Covid is all about personal risk assessment and making personal choices based on that assessment.  Look around you.  Is everyone heeding the advice of their Govenors?  We may not like that they make choices we would not make but they will and we simply need to find a way to get on with our lives in spite of it.

I try and make safe Covids choices for me and my family and I respect that others will make different choices that might endanger me.  I can't change that, and quite framkly I dont even thin, a real law would change it for some.  So the best that I can do...really anyone can do...is to just try and stay away from dangerous situations.

We can't expect Government to fix this.  It's on us.

So you don't think drunk driving should be illegal? Should it just be "on us"?
 
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TechTalk

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #7357 on: September 28, 2020, 04:19:33 pm »

States have existing laws on the books providing broad emergency powers allowing for the issuance of orders and regulations by executive order of the Governor during times of declared emergencies. Some states have specific Public Health Emergency statutes while others incorporate those powers into more general authority for State declared emergencies.

The laws will vary from state to state, but they all have means for conferring to the Governor the powers needed to respond to emergencies whether they are natural disasters or public health emergencies.
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faberryman

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #7358 on: September 28, 2020, 04:21:34 pm »

If you want to pretend you can make people do things like wear a mask, you better have a real law to back it up.

In my home town, the government is not enforcing the mask restriction; however, when I go out I see most people wearing them. The police are encouraging maskless people to wear masks, but only one guy has been thrown in jail. He was a homeless guy with some mental health issues who was threatening to breath on tourists. Got to protect those tourists. The charge was thrown out, so he ended up having a mattress to sleep on and a couple of hot meals for his trouble. Still, I would wear a mask. You might get shot in Walmart arguing about it.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2020, 04:57:25 pm by faberryman »
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Craig Lamson

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #7359 on: September 28, 2020, 04:31:37 pm »

So you don't think drunk driving should be illegal? Should it just be "on us"?

I have zero problem with drunk Driving being illegal.  I know however that many people disregard the law.  That said you won't catch me out driving around on late weekend nights.  It might not be the only time drunks are driving but I worked in my parents bar when I was younger and I've seen the drunks leave.  My risk assessment tells me its a time to avoid the roads.

So yes, it still falls on us as is possible.  The Goverment is not our protector.
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