PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political

[Alan Klein]

Please stop this pedantic trolling. The distance was always a continuum, as everyone well understands. Six feet was just a convenient rule of thumb that provided a reasonable safeguard. OBVIOUSLY it does not cover EVERY eventuality and no one ever said it did. Your deliberate insistence on calling out every obscure article you read as evidence that "experts" are wrong is very silly. You can't possibly think that anyone is taking you seriously about this anymore. Personally, it makes me laugh, so thanks for that.

But here's thing. You seem to need reassurance every other day or so. I can't give you any. Lots of advice is wrong. We're all doomed. Don't listen to anyone, they're just out to get your buck. There is no solution. There, feel better?


But I do have one question for you, which we've skirted around but I don't think we've addressed directly. What do YOU think went wrong with the US response to Covid?

The truth must be getting to you if you have to debate using insults.

Too early to tell if and what went wrong.  It's easy to Monday morning quarterback.  In any case, when Trump shut down travel from China in January, Biden called him a xenophobe. It's a good thing he wasn't in charge or it would have been worse.

[faberryman]

There isn't one person in 100 who use those qualifiers when calculating how far they should stay away from others.

Link?

[Alan Klein]

Link?

Link?  You're funny.  I'll let others decide if my point is valid. 

[kers]

The truth must be getting to you if you have to debate using insults.

Too early to tell if and what went wrong.  It's easy to Monday morning quarterback.  In any case, when Trump shut down travel from China in January, Biden called him a xenophobe. It's a good thing he wasn't in charge or it would have been worse.

He justs wanted and wants to take on China. After that he did nothing to prevent any spread .
and today he laughed at all the 180.000 US citizen that died because of the virus, giving the bad example in front of the White House to all citizen about how to deal with it.
Then he is so afraid of Biden he has to demonish him in every sentence;  now that is fear.

[Robert Roaldi]

The truth must be getting to you if you have to debate using insults.

Too early to tell if and what went wrong.  It's easy to Monday morning quarterback.  In any case, when Trump shut down travel from China in January, Biden called him a xenophobe. It's a good thing he wasn't in charge or it would have been worse.

Well you do keep bringing it up over and over despite having received many many answers, so it's hard to know how to respond. I can only conclude that you do it to get a rise out of people.

As for your latter point, the DNA tracing evidence suggests (from that Sam Harris interview with Siddhartha Mukherjee) that the cases in the New York area, at least, came from European travellers whose travel had not been stopped, so I'm not sure what your point is about China. It's certainly not relevant to the question I asked. Also, it's not clear to me what Biden has to do with any of it. He wasn't in charge at the time, was he? But if you don't want to answer, that's ok, I can live with that.

You're right in that it's not over yet, but I would have thought that the US population would want an explanation why they seemingly have the world's worst Covid performance. I would. For someone who has strong opinions about government, you're awfully forgiving towards your current leaders.

[Alan Klein]

He justs wanted and wants to take on China. After that he did nothing to prevent any spread .
and today he laughed at all the 180.000 US citizen that died because of the virus, giving the bad example in front of the White House to all citizen about how to deal with it.
Then he is so afraid of Biden he has to demonish him in every sentence;  now that is fear.

What's any of that have to do with Biden not wanting to stop travel from China when Trump did stop it?  If Biden was in charge at the time, it would have been worse.

[Alan Klein]

Well you do keep bringing it up over and over despite having received many many answers, so it's hard to know how to respond. I can only conclude that you do it to get a rise out of people.

As for your latter point, the DNA tracing evidence suggests (from that Sam Harris interview with Siddhartha Mukherjee) that the cases in the New York area, at least, came from European travellers whose travel had not been stopped, so I'm not sure what your point is about China. It's certainly not relevant to the question I asked. Also, it's not clear to me what Biden has to do with any of it. He wasn't in charge at the time, was he? But if you don't want to answer, that's ok, I can live with that.

You're right in that it's not over yet, but I would have thought that the US population would want an explanation why they seemingly have the world's worst Covid performance. I would. For someone who has strong opinions about government, you're awfully forgiving towards your current leaders.

Democrat Gov Cuomo helped to kill thousands of elderly when he forced them back to their homes. It's easy to blame people.  Most of it is just political.  There are no simple answers because natural events overwhelm our capabilities as well as our foreknowledge.  There is no perfect solution because economic considerations conflict with medical considerations.  What's good for one is bad for the other and vice versa. It's why government officials can't make up their minds regarding what to do with schools.  Even at this late date, no one is sure about anything.  A lot of the disputes have to do with the election, of people looking to point fingers for political advantage.  I realize as a Canadian, you're not to happy about Trump after what he did with trade and would like to see him gone.  But what's negative to you, is positive for America.  But I understand your hatred of him. 

[Robert Roaldi]

What's any of that have to do with Biden not wanting to stop travel from China when Trump did stop it?  If Biden was in charge at the time, it would have been worse.

I don't know, what does Biden have to do with any of this?

The most important thing is to stay on message though, no matter what the topic is. You should run for office, you have the primary skill down pat.

[faberryman]

...so I'm not sure what your point is about China. It's certainly not relevant to the question I asked. Also, it's not clear to me what Biden has to do with any of it. He wasn't in charge at the time, was he? But if you don't want to answer, that's ok, I can live with that.

It is whataboutism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

Putin used the same tactic yesterday.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/08/27/putin-uses-jacob-blake-shooting-to-call-us-and-eu-hypocrites-403617

The right frequently use whataboutism to deflect from Trump's latest example of unconscionable behavior. They have to change the subject because Trump's behavior is indefensible.

[Robert Roaldi]

Democrat Gov Cuomo helped to kill thousands of elderly when he forced them back to their homes. It's easy to blame people.  Most of it is just political.  There are no simple answers because natural events overwhelm our capabilities as well as our foreknowledge.  There is no perfect solution because economic considerations conflict with medical considerations.  What's good for one is bad for the other and vice versa. It's why government officials can't make up their minds regarding what to do with schools.  Even at this late date, no one is sure about anything.  A lot of the disputes have to do with the election, of people looking to point fingers for political advantage.  I realize as a Canadian, you're not to happy about Trump after what he did with trade and would like to see him gone.  But what's negative to you, is positive for America.  But I understand your hatred of him.

What?

[Paulo Bizarro]

I'll ignore your insult and chalk it up to misunderstanding English idioms.  Every newscaster, scientist, politician and media proclaim the 6 foot rule.  Every circle imprinted on queue lines are memorialized at 6 feet.  There isn't one person in 100 who use those qualifiers when calculating how far they should stay away from others. The thrust of the article is that they're pushing a new rule, that the experts have changed their minds again.

I did not ment to insult, apologies. Is stuborn better? Is there a word that describes "those who refuse to understand what they read"? Did you read the article, or only skimmed the preamble?

For months, a distance of 1.5 meters to 2 meters has been advised as a general rule. That is about 6 feet right? For example, in a beach here in Portugal the recommendation is to stick your sun umbrella at least 3 meters away from the next one, and place your towel at least 1.5 meters away from the next one.

So the recommended distance will change according to location, situation, acitivity, etc. 6 feet is just more generally applicable to many cases and situations.

But I get it, rather than you making an effort to understand what is going on, you prefer not to trust the experts.

[faberryman]

Link?  You're funny.  I'll let others decide if my point is valid. 

So you admit to just making stuff up.

[Paulo Bizarro]

The truth must be getting to you if you have to debate using insults.

Too early to tell if and what went wrong.  It's easy to Monday morning quarterback.  In any case, when Trump shut down travel from China in January, Biden called him a xenophobe. It's a good thing he wasn't in charge or it would have been worse.

Too early? How many dead people do you need before realising what went wrong? 930 dead last 24 hours.

But sure, wearing a maks and keeping a safe distance is against freedom.

[faberryman]

What?

Trump put a tariff on Canadian aluminum or something so Alan believes that all Canadians now hate Americans in general and Trump in particular.  It is completely irrational.

The result of the tariff is that Canada is selling its aluminum elsewhere and Americans are paying more for products containing aluminum, like beer cans and Jiffy Pop.

[Alan Klein]

I don;t know anyone who refers to distances different than 6 feet.  (Who walks around with a tape measure anyway?)   Distances are marked on the ground at 6 feet.  I suppose it's marked at two meters where the metric system is used.  People also tend to move in and out to what their personal preferences are and often forget about Covid and get too close.  But the bottom line is the 6 foot distance was a standard acceptable distance now being modified as we gain more information about the disease.

The following was just published three days ago showing how recent some modifications are.

The 6-foot social-distancing rule is based on nearly 80-year-old science. Scientists at MIT and Oxford have created a traffic-light system to use instead.
https://www.businessinsider.com/6-foot-distancing-rule-is-outdated-oxford-mit-new-system-2020-8

Personally, I use the three armadillo method.

[Robert Roaldi]

Personally, I use the three armadillo method.

Are there many armadillos in New Jersey?  In winter, I mean. 

[Alan Klein]

Too early? How many dead people do you need before realising what went wrong? 930 dead last 24 hours.

But sure, wearing a maks and keeping a safe distance is against freedom.

I wear a mask where I feel I should and keep my distance.  When I walk in the street and there's no one around, I don;t wear it but have it with me in case someone shows up.  Most people do that here.  We're not stupid.  We don't need government to tell us.  Of course, Europeans are use to following government edicts.  Americans are more independent. It's like cameras.  Some people like Auto mode.  Others like Manual mode.

[Robert Roaldi]

Trump put a tariff on Canadian aluminum or something so Alan believes that all Canadians now hate Americans in general and Trump in particular.  It is completely irrational.

The result of the tariff is that Canada is selling its aluminum elsewhere and Americans are paying more for products containing aluminum, like beer cans and Jiffy Pop.

I guess I had heard about that latest aluminum tariff thing, but didn't it come up a few months earlier too? I've lost track and assumed it was only a tweet, that nothing actually ever happened, as per usual with Trump's pronouncements.

The more I think about it, I now remember wondering at the time what had brought it on, because there was no dispute about anything that I could recall. And why aluminum, did some buddy of his ask for tariff protection for his company? You know, the way capitalists compete for the good of the consumer.

[Robert Roaldi]

We don't need government to tell us.  Of course, Europeans are use to following government edicts.  Americans are more independent.

Where do you get this nonsense?

[Alan Klein]

Are there many armadillos in New Jersey?  In winter, I mean. 

Well, I've been looking, but no luck yet.  So I've been falling back with the turkey vulture wingspan method which is around 6 feet.  There are a lot of those buzzing around here believe it or not. 
https://www.google.com/search?q=turkey+vulture+wingspan&rlz=1C1PQCZ_enUS902US902&sxsrf=ALeKk01HfJRWDspPePlvIIFnMEcZvSm1dw:1598629119091&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=5JCHlh7LXKcgaM%252C6qhk0umte24duM%252C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kTYf5JqQuh5nwM0vPIDoj63LYWNyA&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjJg5XGnb7rAhVFlHIEHUc4DZUQ_h16BAgFEAg#imgrc=Yp0BytciUG7lGM