PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political

[Alan Klein]

Yes, people are making mistakes everywhere. You never get 100% cooperation from anyone anywhere. But you should stop being so defensive, it's as if you think the whole world is picking on you. You might be spending too much time on these forums. In the real world, lots of people, billions of them, don't care what the US does.

The level of Covid mis-management in the US is epic, beyond what anyone would have reasonably expected. The smart thing to do is to figure out why and fix it. But instead you have a governance structure that is not doing that. It keeps itself busy by infighting, trying to avoid blame by force of sound bite, and peddling embarrassing snake oil cures. FFS, you have a President who repeatedly promotes a drug that his own medical officials don't back. It's other-wordly. You are not in a good place and you are doing it to yourselves.

Until this is over, we won't know who mismanaged what. 

[faberryman]

Until this is over, we won't know who mismanaged what.

Doesn't mean we don't have a pretty good idea already.

[Alan Klein]

Doesn't mean we don't have a pretty good idea already.

I can only comment on what I see where I live here in New Jersey and when visiting NYC.  Things are shut down.  People are being careful.  They're wearing masks.  Maintaining distances.  Government policy is a go slow approach.  No different than other conservative practices in Europe and elsewhere.  Of course, my area was hit very hard in the beginning.  So now we're hopefully coming out the other side.  I suspect a similar process is happening in other parts of America that are getting hit now. 

A lot of the hype is because of our election in November.  Also, because we're a continental nation of 50 states each with their own government and leadership, everyone is doing it a little differently.  So it looks and is a little chaotic.  But that's no different than the European continent and its many countries and governments. Great Britain just quarantined European visitors to their country.  That's what NY and NJ had been doing with visitors from American states that have high rates, although quarantining is a request and not mandatory. 

[faberryman]

A lot of the hype is because of our election in November.  Also, because we're a continental nation of 50 states each with their own government and leadership, everyone is doing it a little differently.  So it looks and is a little chaotic.  But that's no different than the European continent and its many countries and governments. Great Britain just quarantined European visitors to their country.  That's what NY and NJ had been doing with visitors from American states that have high rates, although quarantining is a request and not mandatory.

Actually, a lot of the hype is because nearly 170,000 people have died and there is no end in sight. The virus looks like it is spreading out of control because it is spreading out of control.  And you believe that federalism is a great idea in pandemics because one state prohibits gatherings of 25, and a another state prohibits gatherings of 50, and after legions of people die in both states, we can compare notes and decide whether 25 or 50 was the better number.

The voluntary quarantine is a joke. I would be surprised if one person has complied.  Do you know how much it costs to rent a hotel room in NYC for two weeks? Don't get me started on the bill for room service. Not to mention there is nothing to watch on TV. Joe is worried about all the suicides from being locked up in your house. It's got to be ten times worse in a hotel room.

[jeremyrh]

And I answered it, in detail.  Follow what Sweden did, which is pretty well known at this point what they did.  Have you been asleep this entire time and just not know what they did?  You would be the only person on earth if so, which I find doubtful, so why list everything.  And it is not impossible for a non-libertarian country to impliment a libertarian method.  Try thinking out side the box sometimes and realize one does not have to solely be limited to their response to everything by the dominating politics. 

But what you are doing now is trying to claim you are really asking how a libertarian society would be effected (which is a different word with a different meaning then respond in the English language) by how they respond while glossing over the nuance of different governance just to play a trick.  You proved this to be the case when you started talking about Zimbobwe and "some people," without giving any names and as if I should just take your word. 

Seriously Jeremy you are the most disingenuous and transparent person I know of.  You are so insincere when it comes to having good faith political conversations it is beyond comprehension sometimes.

What I wrote was precisely this: "Since you're here, Joe, maybe you can explain to us the Libertarian approach to pandemics? " (nothing about "responding")

The answer to that cannot be "do what Sweden does" because Sweden is not a Libertarian society.  The rest is just bluster and bullshit.

I am not "trying to claim you are really asking how a libertarian society would be effected (which is a different word with a different meaning then respond in the English language)" because I have no idea what 'to be effected' means in the English language.

<cue further borgorygmic blethering from Joe>

[Alan Klein]

Actually, a lot of the hype is because nearly 170,000 people have died and there is no end in sight. The virus looks like it is spreading out of control because it is spreading out of control.  And you believe that federalism is a great idea in pandemics because one state prohibits gatherings of 25, and a another state prohibits gatherings of 50, and after legions of people die in both states, we can compare notes and decide whether 25 or 50 was the better number.

The voluntary quarantine is a joke. I would be surprised if one person has complied.  Do you know how much it costs to rent a hotel room in NYC for two weeks? Don't get me started on the bill for room service. Not to mention there is nothing to watch on TV. Joe is worried about all the suicides from being locked up in your house. It's got to be ten times worse in a hotel room.

You don't quarantine in a hotel room. You go home and stay there. 

[faberryman]

You don't quarantine in a hotel room. You go home and stay there.

So if I fly to NYC I don't have to quarantine? I can walk around NYC infecting people and put off the quarantine part until I get back home? I am not sure how that stops the spread of the virus when someone comes to NYC from a state where the virus is out of control. I was going to give Cuomo a pass on the nursing home debacle as an unfortunate learning experience, but if this is how he has implemented the quarantine, that is out the window.

As I recall this issue came up when Trump was going to visit his NJ golf club, and some suggested that he would have to quarantine when he arrived. He said he didn't have to comply with the quarantine because he wasn't "a civilian". I think the plan was that he was going to have a special presidential uniform tailored up with giant gold epaulettes, brass buttons (including on the fly), scads of ribbons, and a bicorn hat. I could be wrong about the hat. For whatever reason, he abandoned the uniform idea, and went to his golf club in Virginia instead.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/24/politics/trump-new-jersey-coronavirus-quarantine/index.html

[Craig Lamson]

. FFS, you have a President who repeatedly promotes a drug that his own medical officials don't back. It's other-wordly. You are not in a good place and you are doing it to yourselves.

Ask Louie Gohmert what he thinks about that evil 65 year old drug and covid 19....

[faberryman]

Ask Louie Gohmert what he thinks about that evil 65 year old drug and covid 19....

I haven't followed that story since it first broke. Is he dead yet?

[Craig Lamson]

I haven't followed that story since it first broke. Is he dead yet?

Nope, and google is your friend...

[faberryman]

Nope, and google is your friend...

I googled it. Nothing came up on the first page following the news of him testing positive. Not interested enough in the issue to press Page Down.

[Craig Lamson]

I googled it. Nothing came up on the first page following the news of him testing positive. Not interested enough in the issue to press Page Down.

Gohmert on HCQ
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/congress/louie-gohmert-is-covid-19-free-and-he-credits-hydroxychloroquine

[Alan Klein]

I went to the dentist and they gave me this awful tasting antiseptic liquid to rinse my mouth out before he started.  When I asked him what it was, he said it was like Lysol.  I asked him if it was Prof. Trump's Elixir. 

[faberryman]

Gohmert on HCQ
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/congress/louie-gohmert-is-covid-19-free-and-he-credits-hydroxychloroquine

I am certain you are familiar with the "post hoc ergo propter hoc" fallacy.

I think I mentioned before that one possible cure for the coronavirus is to wear your socks inside out while infected. Those who survive swear by it.

[Craig Lamson]

I am certain you are familiar with the "post hoc ergo propter hoc" fallacy.

I think I mentioned before that one possible cure for the coronavirus is to wear your socks inside out while infected. Those who survive swear by it.

So you think Henry Ford Hospital thinks the drug helping its patients is a fallacy?
https://www.henryford.com/news/2020/07/hydro-treatment-study

[faberryman]

So you think Henry Ford Hospital thinks the drug helping its patients is a fallacy?
https://www.henryford.com/news/2020/07/hydro-treatment-study

I don't place much stock in Louis Gohmert's endorsement.

The Henry Ford Hospital study is not without its critics. You can easily find that information if you are interested.

If you contract the coronavirus, by all means do what you think best for you and your family in consultation with your physician.

[BobShaw]

You don't quarantine in a hotel room. You go home and stay there.

Who do they infect on the way home and who checks they are there?

At the start of our quarantine in Australia when you landed at the airport a bus picked you up from the the tarmac. You were not even allowed in the terminal. The bus took you to a hotel and you stayed in the room because there were police and army outside the room. It did not matter if you lived in another state, you had to quarantine at the site of arrival. The room was paid for by the government. At least it kept the hotels in business.

Other people who have been exposed or tested positive can quarantine at home, but they are checked each day to make sure they are there.

We had some blunders. A cruise ship was allowed to disembark without and checks and that was one of our biggest outbreaks. You learn from mistakes.

[hogloff]

Who do they infect on the way home and who checks they are there?

At the start of our quarantine in Australia when you landed at the airport a bus picked you up from the the tarmac. You were not even allowed in the terminal. The bus took you to a hotel and you stayed in the room because there were police and army outside the room. It did not matter if you lived in another state, you had to quarantine at the site of arrival. The room was paid for by the government. At least it kept the hotels in business.

Other people why have been exposed or tested positive can quarantine at home, but they are checked each day to make sure they are there.

We had some blunders. A cruise ship was allowed to disembark without and checks and that was one of our biggest outbreaks. You learn from mistakes.

Yeh, I've been checking up on Cuba...dying to go there for our yearly outing. When you land in Cuba, actually one of the islands off of Cuba, you get tested and wisked away to a hotel room until your results cone back. If you are positive, you have to stay isolated in your hotel room until a flight is arranged for you back home ( at your expense ). Each hotel has medical personnel assigned to it which perform Covid tests on an on going basis.

Very well organized and strict. No if, but or when's.

[jeremyrh]

Yeh, I've been checking up on Cuba...dying to go there for our yearly outing. When you land in Cuba, actually one of the islands off of Cuba, you get tested and wisked away to a hotel room until your results cone back. If you are positive, you have to stay isolated in your hotel room until a flight is arranged for you back home ( at your expense ). Each hotel has medical personnel assigned to it which perform Covid tests on an on going basis.

Very well organized and strict. No if, but or when's.

Unlike UK where you arrive at say Heathrow, no test, no temptation measurement, and then are supposed to get home without using public transport. Totally unrealistic and impracticable. Just like every other aspect of the UK govt response.

[Alan Klein]

Yeh, I've been checking up on Cuba...dying to go there for our yearly outing. When you land in Cuba, actually one of the islands off of Cuba, you get tested and wisked away to a hotel room until your results cone back. If you are positive, you have to stay isolated in your hotel room until a flight is arranged for you back home ( at your expense ). Each hotel has medical personnel assigned to it which perform Covid tests on an on going basis.

Very well organized and strict. No if, but or when's.

Well, if you complain to the Cuban authorities about their process, they let you do the 14 day isolation in jail rather than a motel.  They feed you rice and beans.