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Author Topic: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political  (Read 87034 times)

Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #6680 on: August 02, 2020, 11:06:49 am »

Rather than look at Sweden which has many deaths for its population, why not look at Vietnam or Thailand which have very few deaths and seem to have faired very well from an economic standpoint.
We should be looking at other approaches.  That's good and what I've been talking about.  Of course it's premature to award medals before it's over.  In any case, we were talking about Sweden's approach.

LesPalenik

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #6681 on: August 02, 2020, 11:24:45 am »

Rather than look at Sweden which has many deaths for its population, why not look at Vietnam or Thailand which have very few deaths and seem to have faired very well from an economic standpoint.

Exactly! Where is the rationale to look at Sweden as a perfect model, while there are two hundred countries doing better?

Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #6682 on: August 02, 2020, 11:37:15 am »

Exactly! Where is the rationale to look at Sweden as a perfect model, while there are two hundred countries doing better?
I didn't say Sweden was a perfect model?  I said let's look at their procedures as another way things are being done.  Also, medical results are not the only standard.  Economies are being affected differently depending on procedures.  These should be analysed as well. 

faberryman

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #6683 on: August 02, 2020, 11:47:38 am »

Also, medical results are not the only standard.  Economies are being affected differently depending on procedures.  These should be analysed as well.

What a novel idea. Haven't heard that one in, what, four or five posts.

hogloff

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #6684 on: August 02, 2020, 11:50:22 am »

I didn't say Sweden was a perfect model?  I said let's look at their procedures as another way things are being done.  Also, medical results are not the only standard.  Economies are being affected differently depending on procedures.  These should be analysed as well.

Well like I said, Vietnam has very few infections...5 deaths I believe and their economy is doing OK. Sweden is a disaster from infections and deaths and its economy is no better than others in Europe.
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #6685 on: August 02, 2020, 01:02:53 pm »

You're not Swedish.  Mind your business.  Their virologist decided this was the best method for them.

Until he didn't.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52903717
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Now he has told Swedish public radio: "If we were to encounter the same disease again, knowing exactly what we know about it today, I think we would settle on doing something in between what Sweden did and what the rest of the world has done."
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Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #6686 on: August 02, 2020, 01:50:02 pm »

Until he didn't.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52903717
So he learned something.  Great.  But he didn't say Sweden would do what the rest of Europe did but something in the middle.  And then the article stated which you conveniently left out in your comments, "However, he was unclear what Sweden should have done differently and at a press conference later on Wednesday later he underlined that "we basically still think that is the right strategy for Sweden"."

In any case, nothing said now means too much.  Let's wait until more time has passed so we can examine the scientific evidence over the full course of  meaningful time.  Otherwise, it just becomes an exercise in politics which unfortunately has been going on since the inception of Covid 19.

faberryman

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #6687 on: August 02, 2020, 01:53:56 pm »

Let's wait until more time has passed so we can examine the scientific evidence over the full course of meaningful time.

Unfortunately, we can't wait around a couple of years before deciding what to do now. And I'm not sure you would believe the scientists later anyway.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2020, 02:08:01 pm by faberryman »
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #6688 on: August 02, 2020, 02:00:12 pm »

So he learned something.  Great.  But he didn't say Sweden would do what the rest of Europe did but something in the middle.  And then the article stated which you conveniently left out in your comments, "However, he was unclear what Sweden should have done differently and at a press conference later on Wednesday later he underlined that "we basically still think that is the right strategy for Sweden"."

Note the part where it says "the right strategy for Sweden."

It does take cooperation from the general public to achieve a collective goal. In Sweden that's more likely to succeed than, say, in the USA.
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Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #6689 on: August 02, 2020, 02:06:13 pm »

Note the part where it says "the right strategy for Sweden."

It does take cooperation from the general public to achieve a collective goal. In Sweden that's more likely to succeed than, say, in the USA.
Well, Socialists are used to taking orders from the government.

faberryman

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #6690 on: August 02, 2020, 02:26:22 pm »

Well, Socialists are used to taking orders from the government.

Oh, for the love of God...

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #6691 on: August 02, 2020, 02:44:08 pm »

Well, Socialists are used to taking orders from the government.

That then begs the question; What is the USA trying to achieve with regards to COVID-19?
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faberryman

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #6692 on: August 02, 2020, 02:47:27 pm »

That then begs the question; What is the USA trying to achieve with regards to COVID-19?

Apparently re-election, only that doesn't seem to be going too well.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2020, 03:13:55 pm by faberryman »
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #6693 on: August 02, 2020, 02:52:43 pm »

Apparently re-election, only that doesn't seem to going too well.

And there's more:

COVID-19 hospital data is a hot mess after feds take control
With weird discrepancies and fluctuations, COVID trackers say the data is less useful.
https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/07/covid-19-hospital-data-is-a-hot-mess-after-feds-take-control/

Quote
As COVID-19 hospitalizations in the US approach the highest levels seen in the pandemic so far, national efforts to track patients and hospital resources remain in shambles after the federal government abruptly seized control of data collection earlier this month.

The Trump administration issued a directive to hospitals and states July 10, instructing them to stop submitting their daily COVID-19 hospital data to the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention—which has historically handled such public health data—and instead submit it to a new database in the hands of the Department of Health and Human Services. The change was ostensibly made to streamline federal data collection, which is critical for assessing the state of the pandemic and distributing needed resources, such as personal protective equipment and remdesivir, an antiviral drug shown to shorten COVID-19 recovery times.

Watchdogs and public health experts were immediately aghast by the switch to the HHS database, fearing the data would be manipulated for political reasons or hidden from public view all together. However, the real threat so far has been the administrative chaos. The switch took effect July 15, giving hospitals and states just days to adjust to the new data collection and submission process.
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Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #6694 on: August 02, 2020, 02:58:26 pm »

That then begs the question; What is the USA trying to achieve with regards to COVID-19?
What do you mean the USA?  There are states, there are cities, there are individuals, there are businesses, there are schools systems, there are unions, there is the federal government.  Each has their own viewpoint and priority.

hogloff

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #6695 on: August 02, 2020, 03:06:44 pm »

Well, Socialists are used to taking orders from the government.

Right...and Americans carry guns rather than listen to government. Well with a leader like Trump, I can see why no one trusts government in the states. He lies so much that even when he tells the truth, it needs to be fact checked.
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hogloff

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #6696 on: August 02, 2020, 03:08:36 pm »

That then begs the question; What is the USA trying to achieve with regards to COVID-19?

Buy more guns and amo and hunker down...everyone to themselves. After all...it will just magically disappear one day.
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hogloff

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #6697 on: August 02, 2020, 03:10:22 pm »

And there's more:

COVID-19 hospital data is a hot mess after feds take control
With weird discrepancies and fluctuations, COVID trackers say the data is less useful.
https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/07/covid-19-hospital-data-is-a-hot-mess-after-feds-take-control/

This outcome has been predicted...why do you think Trump wants to control it.
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hogloff

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #6698 on: August 02, 2020, 03:12:33 pm »

What do you mean the USA?  There are states, there are cities, there are individuals, there are businesses, there are schools systems, there are unions, there is the federal government.  Each has their own viewpoint and priority.

Same in most countries...yet most countries have a unified plan. So what's the plan in the USA...note the U stands for United.
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faberryman

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #6699 on: August 02, 2020, 03:28:23 pm »

What do you mean the USA?  There are states, there are cities, there are individuals, there are businesses, there are schools systems, there are unions, there is the federal government.  Each has their own viewpoint and priority.

The idea is to delegate down as far a possible to avoid blame. So, schools for example, the national government delegates down to the states, who delegate down to the cities, who delegate down to the school district, who delegate down to the schools, who delegate down to the teachers, who delegate down to a select committee of kindergarteners, who are in the best position to design and implement a plan to teach children in person in schools during a pandemic, reflecting their own viewpoint and priority, which probably means a lot of recess.
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