PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political

[Alan Klein]

Same in most countries...yet most countries have a unified plan. So what's the plan in the USA...note the U stands for United.

The Federal government doesn't decide when schools, businesses and other things open locally or how they operate. That's up to the individual states and their residents.  We're not France.

[Alan Klein]

The idea is to delegate down as far a possible to avoid blame. So, schools for example, the national government delegates down to the states, who delegate down to the cities, who delegate down to the school district, who delegate down to the schools, who delegate down to the teachers, who delegate down to a select committee of kindergarteners, who are in the best position to design and implement a plan to teach children in person in schools during a pandemic, reflecting their own viewpoint and priority, which probably means a lot of recess.

We might be better off letting the kindergarten kids decide. 

[faberryman]

The Federal government doesn't decide when schools, businesses and other things open locally or how they operate. That's up to the individual states and their residents.  We're not France.

I don’t think hogloff is from France so you’ll need to disparage some other country.

[faberryman]

We might be better off letting the kindergarten kids decide.

Given a choice between Trump and kindergarteners, it is no contest.

[hogloff]

The Federal government doesn't decide when schools, businesses and other things open locally or how they operate. That's up to the individual states and their residents.  We're not France.

Are you implying you are better? What exactly does the federal government do? If the USA wS under attack and had 150,000 people killed...would the federal government just sit back and let individual counties do whatever the F*ck they please.

[hogloff]

We might be better off letting the kindergarten kids decide.

If the choice is between Trump or a kindergarten individual I know where I'd put my vote.

[Alan Klein]

I don’t think hogloff is from France so you’ll need to disparage some other country.

I wasn't disparaging France.  I was trying to show that a top down government like France will make rules that affect the entire country.   It isn't a Federal system like America. America is made up of 50 sovereign states that have their own governments and leaders (governors), court systems, police forces, etc.  So it's natural that rules affecting Covid would be made locally in each state not nationally from Washington DC. 

[faberryman]

Are you implying you are better? What exactly does the federal government do? If the USA wS under attack and had 150,000 people killed...would the federal government just sit back and let individual counties do whatever the F*ck they please.

It depends who you have at the helm, Trump or someone else.  For Trump, COVID is a no win situation so why waste time screwing around with it. Besides, he is having enough trouble picking out some new golf clubs. His game is a little off, so it must be the clubs.

[Alan Klein]

Are you implying you are better? What exactly does the federal government do? If the USA wS under attack and had 150,000 people killed...would the federal government just sit back and let individual counties do whatever the F*ck they please.

You don't understand the USA government. Here's is an explanation of the government structure of the USA and its states, territories and Indian lands.

[Alan Klein]

Here's the link.
https://usafacts.org/annual-publications/2020/government-10-k/part-i/item-1-purpose-and-function-of-our-government-general/government-structure/

[PeterAit]

The Federal government doesn't decide when schools, businesses and other things open locally or how they operate. That's up to the individual states and their residents.  We're not France.

Is this why Big Cheeto threatened to withhold funding from schools that did not reopen?

As to not being France, too bad. We'd have much better food and wine.

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

As to not being France, too bad. We'd have much better food and wine.

Trump would disagree, he says that Californian wine has a nicer label ...

[faberryman]

Trump would disagree, he says that Californian wine has a nicer label ...

Trump owns a winery in Virginia. I don't know how many cases of wine he has bought with taxpayer money to stock the White House wine cellar.

[Peter McLennan]

Alan, you've said several times that it's better for each jurisdiction (state, city, school board, etc) to make its own COVID-19 decisions because through diversity will come the best result. 

Have I misinterpreted your position?

However, the evidence shows that a united, coherent response to the pandemic has in nearly all countries proven far more successful than Trump's "let the states figure it out" position.  In fact, Trump's policy vacuum has proven disastrous by any measure.

How do you explain this?

[LesPalenik]

On Sunday, USA showed 467 deaths vs Canada's 4. In case of infections, it was 49,038 vs 285 cases. The enormous discrepancy must be due to the excessive testing in USA.

[Alan Klein]

Alan, you've said several times that it's better for each jurisdiction (state, city, school board, etc) to make its own COVID-19 decisions because through diversity will come the best result. 

Have I misinterpreted your position?

However, the evidence shows that a united, coherent response to the pandemic has in nearly all countries proven far more successful than Trump's "let the states figure it out" position.  In fact, Trump's policy vacuum has proven disastrous by any measure.

How do you explain this?

That's the way America works.  We're a Federal Republic. 

If you recall, when Trump said he wanted to tell all the states when and how they could open, the governors objected telling him he didn't have the authority.  He didn't.  So that's what's happening.  Gov Murphy in New Jersey where I live is deciding the various Phases of opening.  Washington has nothing to say about it.  There is some coordination with Connecticut and New York, nearby states.  Other states with high infection rates have been advised that residents from those states must isolate for 14 days once getting here. 

I think there is some cross fertilization of learning.  As states try different ways of opening, we're seeing which are most effective.  When I passed by a local diner today, they had dozens of filled tables outside set up in the parking lot.  We'll find out soon how effective or not that process was. It was approved by our governor.  Washington DC had nothing to say about it other then Fauci telling everyone to be careful. Meanwhile, I ate home pizza that I picked up curbside.  Maybe a single policy would be better.  But what is that policy?  I don't see other nations doing it much differently.  They open a little, a few cases break out, and then they shut down again.  It just happened in Australia.  Less joked about the testing.  But what is the actual reason there's less cases in Canada?

[LesPalenik]

That's the way America works.  We're a Federal Republic. 

If you recall, when Trump said he wanted to tell all the states when and how they could open, the governors objected telling him he didn't have the authority.  He didn't.  So that's what's happening.  Gov Murphy in New Jersey where I live is deciding the various Phases of opening.  Washington has nothing to say about it.  There is some coordination with Connecticut and New York, nearby states.  Other states with high infection rates have been advised that residents from those states must isolate for 14 days once getting here. 

I think there is some cross fertilization of learning.  As states try different ways of opening, we're seeing which are most effective.  When I passed by a local diner today, they had dozens of filled tables outside set up in the parking lot.  We'll find out soon how effective or not that process was. It was approved by our governor.  Washington DC had nothing to say about it other then Fauci telling everyone to be careful. Meanwhile, I ate home pizza that I picked up curbside.  Maybe a single policy would be better.  But what is that policy?  I don't see other nations doing it much differently.  They open a little, a few cases break out, and then they shut down again.  It just happened in Australia.  Less joked about the testing.  But what is the actual reason there's less cases in Canada?

In Canada, we didn't have as many protests and mass demonstrations as in USA. Many people prefer to drive in summer to the lakes up north. That's much safer than congregating in the cities.
Also the pizza consumption per capita is slightly lower than in USA.

[BobShaw]

But what is the actual reason there's less cases in Canada?

Probably the same reason as there are less cases in every other country too.

Almost every country has a political system where there is a government and an opposition. Most oppositions are against most things that a government says and vise versa. However in a case of a national emergency they can generally find some common ground. That does not seem to be the case in the US. Scoring a political point is more important than the country going down the toilet.

Whether you wear a mask or not or need to isolate or not should be health issues, not political ones.

[Robert Roaldi]

That's the way America works.  We're a Federal Republic. 

There are strengths and weaknesses to all political arrangements. If there is going to be knee-jerk rebellion against anything the government tells you, then what will happen is that when the government is doing something right and people rebel then they will suffer. I would say that it's what works that matters not how the ideology strokes your ego.

If people are going to take the attitude that wearing a mask is a blow against "freedom" and assign political partisanship to it, then there's not much you can do about that. After all, there are lots of people who believe in alien abduction, you can't make it illegal to think that. So when people arrive at the belief that wearing a mask is a blow against freedom, you have to ask whether they actually really believe that or did they just decide to fall for someone's partisan propaganda.

[hogloff]

On Sunday, USA showed 467 deaths vs Canada's 4. In case of infections, it was 49,038 vs 285 cases. The enormous discrepancy must be due to the excessive testing in USA.

Weekend numbers are always low. You can see this pattern in the historic data. But yes, there has been a big discrepancy in both deaths and new infections between the two countries for the last couple months.