PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political

[Alan Klein]

The riots are not because of the lockdown. They are due to systemic racism and discrimination that culminated in yet another (police) murder of a coloured man.

Some people in America would consider your use of the term "coloured people" to be a racist term.  They would even call you a racist. They are black people or people of color. 
https://www.chicagotribune.com/columns/dahleen-glanton/ct-dahleen-glanton-colored-email-reading-list-20200304-utx7geiwm5hupa3t7w6xr3xqn4-story.html

[Paulo Bizarro]

Oh, God... how you foreigners fall for the brainwashing narrative of the American leftist media!

Three of the four cops involved are non-white. The fourth cop is married to a minority woman (so racist!). According to the autopsy, the death is NOT a result of asphyxiation (I think it will be added to the statistics as yet another death by the Chinese virus).

None of the above excuses the excessive force the cop used. But that was a legitimate technique during his training, and stopped being taught only as recently as 2016. But premeditated murder or racist it isn't.

I was not brain washed. The footage was there for everybody to see: a policeman murdering a person, who supposedly resited arrest (which looking at the footage was also a lie). The fact that he is married to a minority woman does not matter, it can not be used as an excuse for his acts.

So, the only white policeman in the group of 4 was the one that ended up murdering Floyd. It may not be racism, but everytime something like this happens, it is always a white cop and a black victim. Must be coincidence. Blame it on the Chinese...

[LesPalenik]

Terrible! Imagine 2-3 months not being able to deal and steal! And no safety valve in the form of football games, bars, meeting friends.

Quite the contrary. Shoplifting has increased during the pandemic. The positive thing for economy is that the demand for security guards is up.

[Alan Klein]

Chokeholds and Strangleholds by cops are apparently allowed in many cities.  But not in Minneapolis.  Go figure!
http://useofforceproject.org/#review

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... everytime something like this happens, it is always a white cop and a black victim....

Another proof you are brainwashed by American leftist media. That is just not true.* A white cop is no more likely to shoot dead African-Americans than a black cop.

As for anecdotal evidence, in the same Minneapolis a year or so ago, a black cop shot dead a white woman... no buring, looting, etc. by whites.

* what is true, and in your defense, is that the media indeed reports it as such, i.e., reports only the stories about blacks being killed, although the percentage is more like 55% vs. 25% vs. 19% (white/black/brown). That creates the false impression the police is somehow after blacks only.

[John Camp]

I was not brain washed. The footage was there for everybody to see: a policeman murdering a person, who supposedly resisted arrest (which looking at the footage was also a lie). The fact that he is married to a minority woman does not matter, it can not be used as an excuse for his acts.

So, the only white policeman in the group of 4 was the one that ended up murdering Floyd. It may not be racism, but everytime something like this happens, it is always a white cop and a black victim. Must be coincidence. Blame it on the Chinese...

It's not always a white cop and a black victim. In the Baltimore, Maryland riots, a few years back, everyone involved was black -- including the cops, the victim, the prosecutor and the mayor. This has been made into a racial thing because this time it was a white man and a black man, although the other cops stood by without intervening, as they should have, but it really is a cop/black thing. Black Lives Matter is actually an anti-cop group, not an anti-racist group. In Chicago, most cops are black, and they also had demonstrations after this killing.

IMHO, what this Minneapolis cop did was murder or manslaughter; he showed reckless disregard of what he was doing to the man he had on the ground. But Floyd was seriously drunk, and he did resist, which was why he was on the ground instead of in a police are being taken downtown to be charged. Again, IMHO, the reason for the extent of these demonstrations/riots/looting was a combination of anger at the cops, but also anger at being jobless because of the corona virus, and because of the attitude of a racist president and a federal administration, which was, basically, "When the looting starts, the shooting starts."

[Robert Roaldi]

These killings by cops always result in the same conversations, some factual, but mostly people take sides in predictable ways using predictable arguments. All a bit of a distraction from the fact that policemen seem often to act with disregard to human life for not much apparent reason. I mean, the guy wasn't an escaped murderer or a child molester, was he. Once a person is subdued, there really isn't much need for further physical pressure unless you think it's ok for a cop to physically assault a suspect as some form of "punishment", as if they have the right to meet out punishment. We're not living on a plantation in 1850. Do many white arrestees get treated like this? Where are those videos? So far as I call tell, there aren't many videos showing police killing unarmed white guys, and given that the African-American minority is about 13% of the US population, that's kind of odd at first glance.

There is always a knee-jerk reaction to these incidents from some to deny that they are racially motivated, and I do believe that they aren't always so. But that retired cop who shot a black guy jogging in Georgia a few weeks ago was not investigated for 2 weeks till a video surfaced. I guess they weren't just waiting for it all to blow over then, were they. I noticed a news item that appeared recently that the person who took the video was recently arrested, a newsworthy tidbit maybe, but largely irrelevant to the original shooting but it probably had an effect.

I guess what I'm saying is that maybe not every incident is racially motivated but that there sure seems to be a lot of them. And I don't mean guys getting killed in firefights, I mean everyday arrests that go south in an eye blink for no apparent reason. There seem to be enough of those that I would have thought that civil libertarians would be concerned. I find it ironic that this should happen so much in a country that prides itself on individual freedom. Maybe some people are more free than others. Being free to sue after the fact is not my idea of freedom, especially if you're dead.

OTOH, if a US cop is forced to approach every single citizen interaction as a threat to his life because there are so many guns around, then I can understand police overreaction to any behaviour.

When thousands and thousands of people take to the streets to commit violence, it may be a mistake in the long run to dismiss that as bad apple troublemakers. I don't think people riot unless they feel they have to. Ignoring red flags is never a good idea. Trump is making "tough on crime" type statements, appropriate in a bar setting maybe but probably not much help to the country in the long run, but he doesn't strike me as someone who cares much about that. I mean, is it working?

[LesPalenik]

When thousands and thousands of people take to the streets to commit violence, it may be a mistake in the long run to dismiss that as bad apple troublemakers. I don't think people riot unless they feel they have to. Ignoring red flags is never a good idea. Trump is making "tough on crime" type statements, appropriate in a bar setting maybe but probably not much help to the country in the long run, but he doesn't strike me as someone who cares much about that. I mean, is it working?

What isn't working is when thousands and thousands of people take to the streets to commit violence. Justifying riots is always a bad idea, regardless of the original trigger.

[Robert Roaldi]

What isn't working is when thousands and thousands of people take to the streets to commit violence. Justifying riots is always a bad idea, regardless of the original trigger.

I wasn't justifying it, sorry you took it to mean that. What I am saying is that when they happen, it's probably a sign that something hasn't been handled properly. Getting all "law and order" about it, if that's ALL you do, won't fix much.

[JoeKitchen]

The riots are not because of the lockdown. They are due to systemic racism and discrimination that culminated in yet another (police) murder of a coloured man.

You know nothing about the issue Bart!

There is no systematic racism; all studies of statistics on these metrics have shown this.  Even liberals who take an honest look at the stats come to the same conclusion.  Thomas Sowell said that all movements start out good and eventually end as a racket.  This is exactly what we are seeing now.  Many on the left are making this out as if what happened to that poor man happens every day or every week to a black person here just so they can continue to remain relevant. 

It simply does not!

And yes, the lock downs greatly added to the riots. 

First, all psychologists have been preaching for weeks that these lock downs have been negatively effecting the mental health of the country.  Second, if you are stuck at home, you are more then likely looking at social media all day which preys on your addictive centers of your brain making you specifically look for things for you to be outraged by.  Studies have repeatably shown this. 

Third, and most importantly, young men, whom were also more effected by these lock downs, have energy they need to release, preferably at a job.  This is where the saying "ideal hands are the devil's playthings" comes from.  Well they have been at home for 70+ days having all that energy build up, due to a policy you support, and the release just came. 

[JoeKitchen]

Are you talking about the murderous policeman? Shifting blame about a racial murder is old and stale.

Show me the evidence it was racist?  I'm saying it isn't, but I have yet to see any evidence to prove that it is.  It is just as likely, maybe more so, that he was an angry incompetent man that should have never been a cop. 

To add to this, I am not the one shifting the focus.  The rioters and looters are! 

Before this, every single person in the country was in agreement over this case.  Trump had the FBI and DOJ open a case into this incident the day after it happened, Tuesday of last week (but I am guessing you did not read about that!).  But now, the rioters and looters, and the feckless mayors and governors that would not quench this before it got out of hand, shifted the focus.  Not me. 

[JoeKitchen]

I am now starting to see images of ordinary citizens forming militias getting ready to protect their property and neighborhood (essentially martial law) because many left wing progressive mayors and governors refused to allow the police to do their job and arrest the rioters/looters. 

I wonder what is going to get more out of hand, professional policing or vigilantism? 

And you know what, all this played out before in 1992 in LA.  A progressive mayor shut down the police instead of having the police shut down the riots early, and people took things in their own hands.  All hell broke loose because of it. 

The real tragedy now is not this man's death, but the death of all of these neighborhoods.  The neighborhoods of the LA race riots have still not recovered.  During the greatest real estate boom in the history of this country, the early 2000s, almost no developers would go into those neighborhoods.  You look at Wacko, TX, same deal; nobody wants to move there.  Watts, in LA, had a riot in the 1960s and still people are hesitent to do any developing there. 

Chester, PA (just outside of Philly) had a massive riot in 1917 and it never recovered.  It is still a slum, which is what all of these neighborhoods will now become, especially in Minneapolis. 

These events are going to create stigmas that will keep the vast majority of business people out of these neighborhoods while instinctively leading the police to do less policing. 

[Chris Kern]

I just discovered that the revolution has even reached here, 20 miles north of the mean streets of Washington, D.C., to the sleepy little city of Rockville, Maryland (population ~70K), as you can see from the attached photograph.

Admittedly I'm no expert on crowd analysis, but this mob certainly appears to me to be just looking for trouble.  Probably members of Antifa.  (Including a few diminutive Antifacitos, who no doubt were dragged along to be indoctrinated.)

These unruly marchers were already flouting the law, completely ignoring the walk/don't walk signs when crossing the street—abetted by a rogue police office who had been assigned to hold oncoming traffic for them.

[elliot_n]

According to the autopsy, the death is NOT a result of asphyxiation.

George Floyd died from asphyxia (lack of oxygen), a private autopsy has found:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52885964

[faberryman]

And you know what, all this played out before in 1992 in LA.  A progressive mayor shut down the police instead of having the police shut down the riots early, and people took things in their own hands.  All hell broke loose because of it.

To add a little perspective for our international members, the 1992 L.A. riots were ignited by the acquittal of four white police officers who viciously beat Rodney King, an unarmed black man, with billy clubs, all of which was caught on video tape. We really haven't progressed much.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

George Floyd died from asphyxia (lack of oxygen), a private autopsy has found:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52885964

Well, there you go: two experts, two different conclusions.

[John Camp]

George Floyd died from asphyxia (lack of oxygen), a private autopsy has found:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52885964

The two findings do not actually conflict, although the media seem to think that they do. I was a reporter in Minneapolis/St/Paul for twelve years, and the medical examiner's office in both counties are very professional ( dealt with both of them.) I just watched the private pathologist's press conference and what he said was that Floyd died of asphyxiation caused by compression of the the neck and back. The original autopsy found no evidence of traumatic asphyxiation. Compression and trauma are different things, although the result may be the same. We'll really have a better idea about this when the chemistry comes back, which always takes several days.

[JoeKitchen]

I just discovered that the revolution has even reached here, 20 miles north of the mean streets of Washington, D.C., to the sleepy little city of Rockville, Maryland (population ~70K), as you can see from the attached photograph.

Admittedly I'm no expert on crowd analysis, but this mob certainly appears to me to be just looking for trouble.  Probably members of Antifa.  (Including a few diminutive Antifacitos, who no doubt were dragged along to be indoctrinated.)

These unruly marchers were already flouting the law, completely ignoring the walk/don't walk signs when crossing the street—abetted by a rogue police office who had been assigned to hold oncoming traffic for them.

Trying to be cute?

I heard nothing but sirens near my house last night, and they are starting up again as I write this.  I don't own a gun, but wish I did and slept with a freshly sharpened hatchet, 4 lb sledge hammer and pointed masonry hammer, which I also had to sharpen recently, by my side.  A friend I know had a building burned down at the end of her block last night, and she lives in a connected row home, so the fire could have easily spread to her house.  The target near me was completely looted, but thankfully not burned.  Every single store on Walnut street in Center City (the shopping strip) had their windows busted in and was looted. 

But I'm the one shifting the focus. 

Our woefully ineffective governor refused to call in the national guard after the first night of protesting until it became obvious around 6 PM we were in for another night of it.  Well it takes time to mobilize and the guard did not get here until 6 AM this morning.  But at least I am not in NY; Cuomo taking the route of pleading with the rioters to stop because it will spread C-19, as if that will have any effect. 

This the price of progressivism, and, just like with the 1968 riots, will only help Trump in his re-election. 

[BernardLanguillier]

There are many things to say on this, some resulting from by partisan politics, some resulting from Trump’s declarations.
- is there some racism deeply rooted in some parts of the US society, especially in some States? It seems to be the case
- is it specific to the US? Most definitely not unfortunately. The targeted population is different but there is a lot of racism in Europe too, in particular towards people of North African extraction
- are the cops in the US more racist than the average person? Most probably not
- are the consequences more severe and therefore more visible were a cop to be racist? Obviously yes
- has the free access to gun ownership a negative impact? Obviously yes, at several levels. Cops are at a much increased risk as a result of the high likely hood that a person supposed to be a criminal may have a gun. It increases drastically the cop’s level of stress and increases the possibility of a genuine mistake. It also calls for more agressive forms of control during arrests to reduce the odds that the suspect may reach out for a gun.
- has the no tolerance for crime policy something to do with this? Most probably because it resulted in - other than some private companies getting a vested interest in increasing the number of people being incarcerated - a dramatic increase of the number of people in jail for small crimes. Thise being correlated to poverty which has resulted in a tremendous inequality against black people. These black people, often first teens with a slight drug problem get trained in jail to become real
Criminals and the vicious circle goes on.

The no tolerance on crime policy has simply resulted in poverty becoming a crime. I personally think that, regardless of the original intent, this policy is by far the worst offender in terms of increasing racial inequalities in the US. It acts as a lever that démultiplies the negative consequences of any deviation from the ideal behavior and toughens the society, introducing fear at its heart
- has Trump’s attitude helped reduce racism in the US? That seems highly unlikely



Cheers,
Bernard

[JoeKitchen]

The 1992 L.A. riots were ignited by the acquittal of four white police officers who viciously beat Rodney King, an unarmed black man, with billy clubs. We really haven't progressed much.

Yes, and if you watch any documentaries on it, you would see that the prosecutors thought it was a slam dunk case and did not prepare nearly as much has they should have.  It does not excuse the beating, but it was a failure at the DA's office.