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Author Topic: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political  (Read 494987 times)

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #5120 on: May 29, 2020, 03:43:07 pm »

Well, I was disappointed when you didn't post a chart.

I just posted an edit, with a chart with instructions. Problem solved.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #5121 on: May 29, 2020, 03:43:44 pm »

In other news the Lancet has acknowledged at least two key errors in the Chloriquine article but still refuses to publish their sources.

So far the concerns raised by Raouit and others have proven 100% accurate. And it seems obvious that this article has not gone through a critical peer review process before publication.

Cheers,
Bernard

JoeKitchen

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #5122 on: May 29, 2020, 03:46:15 pm »

I don't see how you arrive at that conclusion.

It's really simple. When you are sick/symptomatic, you should not go outside.
When you go outside, keep a distance.
When you cannot keep distance (e.g. when caring for others, or in public transportation, or busy shops), wear a mask to reduce the chance of infecting others (you might be asymptomatic or presymptomatic, but contagious).
Don't touch your mask, it can become an infection source.

Otherwise, wash your hands with soap to reduce the chance of spreading it or contracting it through physical contact. Additional disinfection with e.g. alcohol (70% or more) can help.

To avoid contracting the virus by breathing in airborne particles, one needs a different type of certified mask (not the regular surgical kind), one that filters out very small particles. They make breathing harder, so they are not comfortable after a while.

Bart, the CDC is giving out different information, which is more strict.   

It surprises me though that liberals here are siting them when it  comes to mask then the WHO.
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #5123 on: May 29, 2020, 03:54:14 pm »

Bart, the CDC is giving out different information, which is more strict.

Possibly because you're in deeper shit. We have come a long way flattening the curve, large parts of the USA have not yet reached that stage.
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John Camp

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #5124 on: May 29, 2020, 04:12:44 pm »

The CDC this week revised the infection fatality rate lower for all age groups. 

For those under 50 in good health, it is no more then 0.05%, or half the fatality rate of the flu.

Seniors should still be concerned and protected.  However, as I have said before, there is no longer any reason for everyone to stay locked in.  Lord knows I was not for the last 5 or 6 days, even went to a bar. 

The first day bars reopen in Philly, I'll be enjoying a pint with my foot on the brass rail in my city, and it will be glorious.

Joe, that's not half the rate of the flu, that's 5X the rate of the flu. Th flu kills something around 0.01 percent (one percent.) 0.05 is five percent.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #5125 on: May 29, 2020, 05:34:16 pm »


It surprises me though that liberals here are siting them when it  comes to mask then the WHO.

Joe,

You still have not accepted the possibility that other people here may not be « liberals ».

But free thinkers that look at facts are use common sense, ethics and logic to form an opinion. All by products of good education aiming to create truly free man, as opposed to those unable to think outside the neat little box that was prepared for them.

Masks are most likely to be effective in slowing down the spread of the corona. And I am speaking here about global benefits. But they don’t provide perfect protection. So one person wearing a mask could still get infected, but 10 people wearing masks are less likely to be infected than 10 people not wearing masks.

This isn’t a liberal position, it’s common sense.

I understand that in the context of your good/bad views of the world when Trump defines what good is the OMS must be bad since Trump criticizes it. The reality is more complex than that. The OMS does overall contribute very positively in many ways. Has it been perfect on the corona? Certainly not and that includes the communication about masks.

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: May 29, 2020, 05:41:34 pm by BernardLanguillier »
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JoeKitchen

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #5126 on: May 29, 2020, 05:59:37 pm »

Joe, that's not half the rate of the flu, that's 5X the rate of the flu. Th flu kills something around 0.01 percent (one percent.) 0.05 is five percent.

Yes, you're right, partially.  The death rate of the flu is 0.02%; so C-19 for us young and healthy is 2.5 times as deadly.  Still, nothing to worry about in my age group.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2020, 06:04:45 pm by JoeKitchen »
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JoeKitchen

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #5127 on: May 29, 2020, 06:03:33 pm »

Joe,

You still have not accepted the possibility that other people here may not be « liberals ».

But free thinkers that look at facts are use common sense, ethics and logic to form an opinion. All by products of good education aiming to create truly free man, as opposed to those unable to think outside the neat little box that was prepared for them.

Masks are most likely to be effective in slowing down the spread of the corona. And I am speaking here about global benefits. But they don’t provide perfect protection. So one person wearing a mask could still get infected, but 10 people wearing masks are less likely to be infected than 10 people not wearing masks.

This isn’t a liberal position, it’s common sense.

I understand that in the context of your good/bad views of the world when Trump defines what good is the OMS must be bad since Trump criticizes it. The reality is more complex than that. The OMS does overall contribute very positively in many ways. Has it been perfect on the corona? Certainly not and that includes the communication about masks.

Cheers,
Bernard

I was not talking about you, or anyone else here Bernard, but liberals in the USA in general.  They are insisting on using he CDC guidelines  while at the same time praising the  WHO.  The fact that they would praise the CDC, under the Trump administration, when they hate everything Trump is not very consistent. 

Insofar as mask stopping the spread, I just dont buy it.  We are suppose to believe masks do not prevent some one from catching it when they are breathing slowly in but somehow  do stop the virus when a person sneezes outward with force.  That just makes no sense for anyone freely thinking on the subject.   ;)
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faberryman

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #5128 on: May 29, 2020, 06:13:19 pm »

What is pertinent is not the CDC or the WHO, but your local or state regulation. Whether you agree with it or not, you may be required to wear one, unless you choose to practice civil disobedience, which is entirely up to you.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #5129 on: May 29, 2020, 08:14:54 pm »

I was not talking about you, or anyone else here Bernard, but liberals in the USA in general.  They are insisting on using he CDC guidelines  while at the same time praising the  WHO.  The fact that they would praise the CDC, under the Trump administration, when they hate everything Trump is not very consistent. 

Insofar as mask stopping the spread, I just dont buy it.  We are suppose to believe masks do not prevent some one from catching it when they are breathing slowly in but somehow  do stop the virus when a person sneezes outward with force.  That just makes no sense for anyone freely thinking on the subject.   ;)

My apologies for misunderstanding what you meant.

Cheers,
Bernard

Paulo Bizarro

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #5130 on: May 30, 2020, 03:49:55 am »

Yes, you're right, partially.  The death rate of the flu is 0.02%; so C-19 for us young and healthy is 2.5 times as deadly.  Still, nothing to worry about in my age group.

Yes, you may not worry about it personally. But you should worry about it as part of a community and out of respect for those who are in the age risk groups. Example: after 4 weeks of reopening, Lisbon area is seeing a rise in cases in age group 20-30. As expected, younger ones are going out more. They have no reasons to worry about dying, statistically, but the are getting infected because they are not careful. Then they go back home and infect older ones, like their parents, uncles, or grandparents. Who have a higher chance of dying from it.

It is simply a question of respect for others.

JoeKitchen

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #5131 on: May 30, 2020, 07:02:09 am »

Yes, you may not worry about it personally. But you should worry about it as part of a community and out of respect for those who are in the age risk groups. Example: after 4 weeks of reopening, Lisbon area is seeing a rise in cases in age group 20-30. As expected, younger ones are going out more. They have no reasons to worry about dying, statistically, but the are getting infected because they are not careful. Then they go back home and infect older ones, like their parents, uncles, or grandparents. Who have a higher chance of dying from it.

It is simply a question of respect for others.

It's a simple question that is no longer practical.

This went from 15 days to flatten the curve, to 30 days to stop the spread, and now over two months later people are saying we have to wait until we have a vaccine.  People who put that question above all else would have us stay on lockdown for years if need be. 

Well, we cant live like this any longer.   

Not only is the economic fall out going to be severe, and will get worse the longer we do stay locked down, the more suicides (a doctor in CA said he has seen his year's worth of them in the last 60 days), death due to drug over doses, increase in cancer deaths from people either not receiving treatments or even being diagnosed, etc, all deaths many of those for extending the lock downs are fully ignoring.  And yes, they are being ignored since no lock downers are talking about these. 

All for a virus that largely kills only those with comorbidities.

The real question is, now that opening up is inevitable, is how do we protect the vulnerable now that we must get back to living life? 
« Last Edit: May 30, 2020, 08:22:03 am by JoeKitchen »
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LesPalenik

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #5132 on: May 30, 2020, 10:00:56 am »

Trump canceled the G7 summit in March due to the crisis and said he would host a videconference instead. But last week he changed his mind and now he plans to hold the summit in late June in Washington. Angela Merkel doesn't think the get-together this summer would be such a great idea.

Quote
Angela Merkel has rebuffed Donald Trump’s invitation to attend a G7 summit, which the U.S. president is keen to portray as a symbol of a return to normality from the upheaval of the coronavirus crisis. "The federal chancellor thanks President Trump for his invitation to the G7 summit at the end of June in Washington. As of today, considering the overall pandemic situation, she cannot agree to her personal participation, to a journey to Washington."
..
Officials aware of the transatlantic discussions said Trump was furious over Merkel's reluctance to attend the summit and on Thursday he phoned French President Emmanuel Macron in a pique. In a readout of Trump's call with Macron on Thursday, the White House said: "President Trump and President Macron discussed progress on defeating the coronavirus and reopening global economies. The two leaders agreed on the importance of convening the G7 in person in the near future. President Trump and President Macron also discussed critical global and bilateral issues."

Officials aware of recent transatlantic discussions said Merkel had voiced similar opposition to EU leaders gathering in person for a summit in Brussels on June 19, and said face-to-face talks should not resume until July.

https://www.politico.eu/article/angela-merkel-rebuffs-donald-trump-invitation-to-g7-summit/
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faberryman

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #5133 on: May 30, 2020, 10:38:20 am »

This went from 15 days to flatten the curve, to 30 days to stop the spread, and now over two months later people are saying we have to wait until we have a vaccine.  People who put that question above all else would have us stay on lockdown for years if need be. 
I know of no one who is saying that we must remained locked down until there is a vaccine, much less for years. Certainly none of the governors or mayors. The nation is now largely opened up and has been for weeks, save for a few hot spots.
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JoeKitchen

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #5134 on: May 30, 2020, 10:41:28 am »

I know of no one who is saying that we must remained locked down until there is a vaccine, much less for years. Certainly none of the governors or mayors. The nation is now largely opened up and has been for weeks, save for a few hot spots.

Yes, but a couple of weeks ago they  were.  Many still are saying we can not return to normal until we have a vaccine. 

What happened is that the people started going out with a giant  middle finger at the leaders, and the leaders had to adjust.  In PA the Republicans put up  bill after bill to open up the sate.  Wolf repeatably vetoed those bills and within 24  to 48 hours adjusted his plans to match those bills. 

We are opening up because people got fed up with  this and just started opening, a ground up movement. 

Yet, there are still some people trying to goad us back into locking down. 
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armand

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #5135 on: May 30, 2020, 10:44:57 am »

....
 That just makes no sense for anyone freely thinking on the subject.   ;)

True that, when your thinking is free of knowledge it can only get you so far. Obviously, if you ignore your ignorance then the sky is the limit. But go ahead and continue to be the epitome of free thinking while trying to prove that your ignorance is as good as some people's uncertainties.



https://newsroom.wakehealth.edu/News-Releases/2020/04/Testing-Shows-Type-of-Cloth-Used-in-Homemade-Masks-Makes-a-Difference?fbclid=IwAR1e4-bvxtzs3TPDVrF39pUpHDLNxPrE0sYwIxr6azEjfFfw4pr7yPRe5Ts
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0843-2?fbclid=IwAR11sGBdxgdgFMZmQeRo8z7AMUpJEorjWXGIJKPjDrN_qppYWXV-t8DtYnU#Tab1
https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-questions-about-covid-19-and-viral-load/?fbclid=IwAR3DP2iAoUXFgehg17Dzxkh0D_gWRmkQRLvIcPfCMAF2KieJClGO43RQ1dc
https://arxiv.org/abs/2003.07353?fbclid=IwAR1WZzjsbY5rBmfJ3IF8kXHuSMusxPMcZvmBo6gt_JUlHFHBsHA-MNmHnbs
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/medrxiv/early/2020/05/15/2020.05.09.20096644.full.pdf?fbclid=IwAR0kqUVCTCQ3Ggu71Xrif_Nx6TjH_OVO1Mu1brrDQVIoPCdayUZe057098k
https://www.sciencetimes.com/articles/25410/20200421/austria-90-drop-coronavirus-cases-requiring-people-wear-face-masks.htm?fbclid=IwAR3Ysk2tO_Q_drRzg7BFTnbVfIbqgy3OxUoGTXi2EP22WV2nHCtSsQ_otVw
https://www.wbur.org/commonhealth/2020/04/23/brigham-and-womens-masks-infections?fbclid=IwAR1hQySQUrTNLSSIQklbNtLRPvYhMiSRrwdQvKyhg6KbHS67NwelCVzR3Lg
https://www.preprints.org/manuscript/202004.0203/v1?fbclid=IwAR0caoT3CGWm2RhqssPTkdzhqf7lJuw3yMl3eMYzXkPINMRIyWBmbK8Vork

And a nice layman review: https://www.erinbromage.com/post/the-risks-know-them-avoid-them?fbclid=IwAR0886ddKc--ciZjLcIVigWa4QJUnpKxgJ6F_uJQpCTZyZDQ0Z87uK__8rE

faberryman

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #5136 on: May 30, 2020, 10:47:11 am »

We are opening up because people got fed up with  this and just started opening, a ground up movement.
I don't see that at all. There were protests at a few state capitols, but most opened up without protest. From what I see, the protests are larger for the killing of George Floyd than for opening up.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #5137 on: May 30, 2020, 10:56:50 am »

I don't see that at all. There were protests at a few state capitols, but most opened up without protest...

Not that type of protest. Joe used the right phrase "people got fed up and just started opening." We do not burn cities down when we protest. We practice civil disobedience, like Rosa Park, and just open the business, bars, and restaurants. We also take the legal path, suing the little Democratic fascists and win the opening in court.

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #5138 on: May 30, 2020, 11:00:42 am »

...

faberryman

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #5139 on: May 30, 2020, 11:09:35 am »

We practice civil disobedience, like Rosa Park, and just open the business, bars, and restaurants.
I remember a couple of restaurants that opened and were immediately shut down. Certainly nothing widespread.
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