PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political

[Craig Lamson]

WOW!  Are you telling me that the most liberal news network in the USA is criticizing the most conservative news network in the USA.  That is just amazing!   

FYI, I looked up the media rating on both MSNBC and Fox News and they are pretty much similar, so this is kind of like the pot calling the kettle black.  (Click on links to see media ratings.)

You, personally Bernard, cant criticize Fox News while at the same time referencing MSNBC as proof.  It is a fool's argument.

Furthermore, MSNBC is equally as guilty as distorting what Dr. Fauci is saying.  Fauci has repeatably said he is not taking into account the economic fall out caused by the lock down nor any deaths which will be a direct result of the lock downs (like from delayed cancer treatments LesPalenik is constantly point out.)  He has said that he is only giving advice on the virus, and that his advice needs to be weighed with other advice from other professionals as well.  This was the point Rand Paul was making during the hearing, and Fauci largely agreed with him. 

However, many left leaning news sources keep on insisting that we only listen to the medical experts on re-opening, even though they will be overly cautious.  It would be like asking medical experts in 1941 how we should respond to Japan bombing Pearl Harbor.  Well, medical experts are about saving lives and going to war will cost people their lives, so it would be expected they would advise against the war. 

This is not an acceptable response, just like continuing this lock down any longer is not acceptable. 

Meanwhile, if you really want to criticize a news network, look nor further then CNN. 

Social media storm erupts after CNN puts Greta Thunberg on coronavirus panel: report  (I know, it's a Fox News link, but you can verify this elsewhere, CNN is even proud of this.)

Even though I believe climate change is a problem we need to solve, I never thought listening to a 17 year old brat who's only redeemable trait is yelling at adults on the subject was a good idea.  It is an even worse idea to do so when the talk is about C-19. 

CNN is a joke.

Forget the source, Bernard does not have a freaking clue.  He posted a link to an opinion piece that does not even include the source material being discussed.  I'll be suprised if Bernard has even viewed any of the work the video he links is even referencing.  Its simply a broad brush attack by a liberal hack network feeding Bernards huge biases.   

[Alan Klein]

Good job finding the wingnut outrage du jour!

Just more proof that the whole Russian collusion was a political ploy set up to destroy the Trump presidency.  The Obama administration used the secret services of the USA like some banana republic to try to pull off a coup.  It went on for years.  For all these years you were fooled by phony media and Democrats, Hillary, et al lying through their teeth.  WHAT A DISGRACE.

[Craig Lamson]

Good job finding the wingnut outrage du jour!

Just curious, you are not bothered at the things that were happening in regards to this?

[Alan Klein]

Here's an example of the stupidity of the bailout.  So after giving the airlines billions to keep them going, they're going to lay off or reduce work hours for a lot of their employees even though they said they wouldn't.  What did the government expect would happen when no one's flying?  Did they expect airlines to fly planes empty with no income.  This is nuts.  It's wasting precious resources.  These stocks are going to tank anyway.  Why waste money?  Let companies go bankrupt and let the better ones buy them out or let them consolidate which is what's going to happen anyway.  Meanwhile, the poor schnook taxpayer is on the hook for another $25 billion in future taxes while they can't pay their own rent.  And everyone is for this.  The Democrats, Republicans, Trump, Senate, House.  All pandering to the public for votes.  And the stupid public is rubbing its hands with greed for "free" money.  We're going to get what we deserve.  Are they this stupid in other countries?

[Alan Klein]

Oh here's the link.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-24/airlines-cut-work-hours-in-savings-push-after-u-s-payroll-aid?sref=fBJG1w9m

[LesPalenik]

Just a simple question.  You watched the piece linked by Bernard, so did I.  Can you tell me exactly what comments by Fox news opinion talkers ( and lets be frank here, the MSNBC video  is also an opinion piece) were benig taken to task?  The answer of course, is you have no clue at all...unless you watched the actual video for the Fox hosts in question.  And I doubt you did.

So what are you actually commenting on here?

I tried a few times watching Fox news, but beside the outrageous and nasty commentaries, I can't stand their musical backgrounds. Actually music is not a right word, it's an acoustic assault. Radio Yerevan is a much better station, and they don't bother with acoustics.

From watching the Trump circus and reading your posts it's obvious that you show a genuine and unequivocal love for your great leader. That's fine, we live in a free country, I can understand it, sometimes a little bit of hallucination can be therapeutic. I also observed totally opposite feelings by the 50% of the Americans and 95% of international watchers.

[faberryman]

Just curious, you are not bothered at the things that were happening in regards to this?

The last paragraph of The Hill article:

"Barbara McQuade, a law professor at the University of Michigan, said Wednesday there’s nothing improper about asking to know the name of a U.S. citizen on a classified intelligence report as long as the official requesting the information has proper clearance and a justification."

[Craig Lamson]

The last paragraph of The Hill article:

"Barbara McQuade, a law professor at the University of Michigan, said Wednesday there’s nothing improper about asking to know the name of a U.S. citizen on a classified intelligence report as long as the official requesting the information has proper clearance and a justification."

See above...

[James Clark]

Just curious, you are not bothered at the things that were happening in regards to this?

I'm happy to answer that, provided we can agree on a common context for the discussion:

1) Russia did attempt to influence the outcome of the 2016 election. (A conclusion reached by multiple government agencies, the Mueller Report, and the Republican-led Senate investigation)

2) The Trump campaign had numerous contacts with individuals adjacent to high-level Russian officials. (Acknowledged by DJT Jr. and a variety of other sources)

3) Both the president and Senate Majority Leader were aware of alleged Russian interference during the run-up to the 2016 election. (I can dig up sources but don't know them offhand.)

4) You and others others on this site were arguing that, regardless of political advantage, perceived or real, the Trump administration had/has the right to investigate Joe Biden because his son's financial dealings could cause a potential conflict of interest and/or could be revealed as corrupt. (you can search in the search bar above if you don't recall )

[James Clark]

See above...

See above

[Craig Lamson]

I tried a few times watching Fox news, but beside the outrageous and nasty commentaries, I can't stand their musical backgrounds. Actually music is not a right word, it's an acoustic assault. Radio Yerevan is a much better station, and they don't bother with acoustics.

From watching the Trump circus and reading your posts it's obvious that you show a genuine and unequivocal love for your great leader. That's fine, we live in a free country, I can understand it, sometimes a little bit of hallucination can be therapeutic. I also observed totally opposite feelings by the 50% of the Americans and 95% of international watchers.

Unequivocal?  Not even close.  But to the point. If you haven't watched the information that is under discussion how can you comment? 

[Craig Lamson]

I'm happy to answer that, provided we can agree on a common context for the discussion:

1) Russia did attempt to influence the outcome of the 2016 election. (A conclusion reached by multiple government agencies, the Mueller Report, and the Republican-led Senate investigation)

2) The Trump campaign had numerous contacts with individuals adjacent to high-level Russian officials. (Acknowledged by DJT Jr. and a variety of other sources)

3) Both the president and Senate Majority Leader were aware of alleged Russian interference during the run-up to the 2016 election. (I can dig up sources but don't know them offhand.)

4) You and others others on this site were arguing that, regardless of political advantage, perceived or real, the Trump administration had/has the right to investigate Joe Biden because his son's financial dealings could cause a potential conflict of interest and/or could be revealed as corrupt. (you can search in the search bar above if you don't recall )

No issues at all.

[James Clark]

No issues at all.

OK - then from what I understand, I'm not yet concerned that the FBI was investigating ties between the campaign and Russia, and that the Vice President asked who some of the players were.   I acknowledge that it would have been politically advantageous to make this known before the election, but as I recall (again - no data at hand - I'm open to correction), Comey made a public pronouncement of the "re opening" of the Hillary Clinton investigation (which has since been closed without consequence) but specifically did NOT make any announcement of the investigation into the Trump campaign.

If you want to argue that the Democrats used the ongoing investigation to harm Trump politically once he was in office, I won't disagree (but I'll refer you to point 4 above), but as for the initiation of the investigation?  No, I'm not seeing the scandal yet.

[LesPalenik]

Unequivocal?  Not even close.  But to the point. If you haven't watched the information that is under discussion how can you comment?

I have watched the discussion to which Bernard provided the link, and that was the conversation on which I commented. Below is my previous post in full.
Would you like me to comment on something else?

Thanks for the link, Bernard
Good discussion / report and also many spot-on comments.
One of the comments: "I've lost two friends to the virus, and another who called it a hoax, has now tested positive. I asked if he still thought it was a hoax. He hung up on me."

[Alan Klein]

The last paragraph of The Hill article:

"Barbara McQuade, a law professor at the University of Michigan, said Wednesday there’s nothing improper about asking to know the name of a U.S. citizen on a classified intelligence report as long as the official requesting the information has proper clearance and a justification."

Why did Biden ask for this information on Jan 11, 2017, just days before Trump became president on Jan 21st unless it was all part of a plan to hurt his presidency?  Biden was leaving office then too.  Who does these things on the way out the door unless there are ulterior motives? Also, the really illegal part was the giving of the name of Flynn to the news media.  It's against the law to publicly reveal the names of unmasked Americans.  Of course, Barbara McQuade conveniently didn't mention the illegal act. The Washington Post article implied that Flynn was a Russian agent and so was Trump by association.  It was published on Jan 12th the next day in the anti-Trump newspaper the Washington Post. 

Whoever in the Obama administration did that has not be found out yet, at least publicly.  But it was an act to embarrass Trump and destroy Flynn at the start of Trump's new presidency.  Obama, who had fired Flynn years earlier because of his ideas that opposed Obama, and the US intelligence agencies who were worried about Flynn becoming National Security Advisor, wanted to get Flynn out of there.  They were worried he would stop the free hand they had in influencing American national policies under Obama.  They were of course more worried about Trump, the new president.  So they, the FBI, CIA, and other US intelligence agencies, set Flynn and Trump up up and nearly destroy him and his family and also nearly brought down an elected president.  What a disgrace.  And people here think Trump is a dictator and ignore Obama and Biden's coup d'etat acts.

[Craig Lamson]

OK - then from what I understand, I'm not yet concerned that the FBI was investigating ties between the campaign and Russia, and that the Vice President asked who some of the players were.   I acknowledge that it would have been politically advantageous to make this known before the election, but as I recall (again - no data at hand - I'm open to correction), Comey made a public pronouncement of the "re opening" of the Hillary Clinton investigation (which has since been closed without consequence) but specifically did NOT make any announcement of the investigation into the Trump campaign.

If you want to argue that the Democrats used the ongoing investigation to harm Trump politically once he was in office, I won't disagree (but I'll refer you to point 4 above), but as for the initiation of the investigation?  No, I'm not seeing the scandal yet.

The unmasking is in regards to Flynn at this point, and the best I can tell he was doing nothing wrong except he was not a person in the good graces of Obama and was going to work for Trump.  Now remember this was during the admin transition, AFTER Trump was elected.  This is when Biden was asking. 

[James Clark]

The unmasking is in regards to Flynn at this point, and the best I can tell he was doing nothing wrong except he was not a person in the good graces of Obama and was going to work for Trump.  Now remember this was during the admin transition, AFTER Trump was elected.  This is when Biden was asking.

Once again, correct me if I'm wrong (Admittedly I haven't been following this super-closely yet), but since Biden was asking, Biden clearly didn't know who the subject in question was, correct, so how could he have been targeting Flynn specifically?  If you were transitioning what is, literally, the most important job in the world in a period where you were concerned about what was going on, wouldn't you want to know everything you could to transition it properly.

Another possibly - in an ongoing investigation (which we both agree was legitimate), wouldn't you want to do everything you could up until the day you left to ensure that it was left in good hands?  Yes, this plays into the "deep state is out to get Trump" narrative, but honestly - if there was a valid concern, the investigative agencies have a duty to the country to follow where it leads, do they not?   Regardless of what you believe the Mueller Report, House, and Senate investigation eventually concluded, in January of 2017, there was still a lot of legitimate investigating to do regardless of who was in the Oval Office.

[Alan Klein]

Once again, correct me if I'm wrong (Admittedly I haven't been following this super-closely yet), but since Biden was asking, Biden clearly didn't know who the subject in question was, correct, so how could he have been targeting Flynn specifically?  If you were transitioning what is, literally, the most important job in the world in a period where you were concerned about what was going on, wouldn't you want to know everything you could to transition it properly.

Another possibly - in an ongoing investigation (which we both agree was legitimate), wouldn't you want to do everything you could up until the day you left to ensure that it was left in good hands?  Yes, this plays into the "deep state is out to get Trump" narrative, but honestly - if there was a valid concern, the investigative agencies have a duty to the country to follow where it leads, do they not?   Regardless of what you believe the Mueller Report, House, and Senate investigation eventually concluded, in January of 2017, there was still a lot of legitimate investigating to do regardless of who was in the Oval Office.

Come on James.  The whole thing was a setup. The phoney dossier that was used to get the FISA court to get the investigations, the phoney treason charges, the Mueller investigation, etc.  We shouldn't run our country this way. We only hurt ourselves when we act this way. 

[JoeKitchen]

Good job finding the wingnut outrage du jour!

This is going to be a huge fallout from this James. 

A president spying on the incoming administration merely because they do not like them and using extremely faulty reports to justify it. 

Not to mention, as is always the case, when the Dems lose, they show themselves as sole losers all the time.  Clinton left the white house a total mess for Bush.  HRC still cant accept that she lost with Stacy Abrams following suit. 

Biden's pure as snow veneer is now done.  This combined with the Hunter Biden China scandal and Tara Reade gives the opposition plenty of ammo.  As of this week, 28% of the Dems feel Biden should not be the nominee, and that number increased since the last poll. 

[Paulo Bizarro]

Most countries show a decline in new cases, except Brasil. If their current trend continue, soon they will overtake Spain, UK and Italy and become the second most affected country after USA.
Apparently, Bolsonaro is now busy creating a new party in which he would be the party president and his son a vice-president.

There is a time facotr related to this, since not all countries started the disease at the sametime. Also, not all countries started testing seriously at the same time. And finally, not all countries officially recognised they had the diesease from the begining. Russia is another case in point, in early March the reported an increase of pneumonia cases... and now they are on the steep growth part of the infection curve.