PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political

[faberryman]

WTF?

It is a Nazi slogan.  Details here:

https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/495800-auschwitz-museum-condemns-nazi-slogan-at-re-open-illinois

[Peter McLennan]

This is the type of condescending liberal, elitist crap that deserves a FU ...

So said The King of Condescension himself.

[John Camp]

This is the type of condescending liberal, elitist crap that deserves a FU from "the low-wagers." If you ever lived off unemployment benefits, you'd know that is hardly enough to pay half the bills. There are 30 million unemployed due to the liberals/democrats/progressives or whatever else crap.

Bullshit. The CARES act provided for $600 a week unemployment *on top of* the regular unemployment check. The average unemployment check in the US is $378 a week. That would be better than the equivalent of $50,000 a year in most cases, although the CARES act only provides for the supplement for four months. Either the NYT or WAPO carried a story about a woman who ran a large salon in California and applied for and got a government grant that allowed her to keep paying the people on her payroll, only to find out they were all pissed off at her because her salaries were lower than the enhanced unemployment.

[Peter McLennan]

Alan, try to stick to your area of expertise, whatever that may be.

Thanks for that!  Best laff of the week.

If there is ever a real tyranny in the US, it will be supported by the military, who would eat these wanna-be patriots for lunch.

Indeed. I've known quite a few military and non of them would cosplay like those posers.

[John Camp]

Here's a special news-note for Alan, from a website run by that commie-loving Wall Street Journal:

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell sparked a political firestorm last week when he said U.S. states should file for bankruptcy, if need be, rather than taking federal aid, which could amount to states scaling back or pulling the plug on their pension obligations.
“There’s not going to be any desire on the Republican side to bail out state pensions by borrowing money from future generations,” McConnell told conservative talk show host Hugh Hewitt last week. “I would certainly be in favor of allowing states to use the bankruptcy route,” he added.
So, the big retirement news of the moment is that the top Republican in Congress would prefer that public pensions default on their obligations to retirees. What’s more, he made the remarks on exactly the same day that Social Security and Medicare trustees warned their funds are going to be depleted before most middle-aged people ever see a nickel.
But the state pension systems are small potatoes compared with the real retirement story: Social Security and Medicare.
And McConnell was speaking just as the trustees of those two systems warned that they, too, are running out of money and will need a lot of extra cash. Just don’t call it a “bailout.”
Without extra money, Social Security will exhaust its trust funds in 15 years, the trustees warn. Medicare’s Hospital Insurance fund will be exhausted in just six.

[JoeKitchen]

Bullshit. The CARES act provided for $600 a week unemployment *on top of* the regular unemployment check. The average unemployment check in the US is $378 a week. That would be better than the equivalent of $50,000 a year in most cases, although the CARES act only provides for the supplement for four months. Either the NYT or WAPO carried a story about a woman who ran a large salon in California and applied for and got a government grant that allowed her to keep paying the people on her payroll, only to find out they were all pissed off at her because her salaries were lower than the enhanced unemployment.

Oh John knock it off.  You really think it is better For people just to collect from the government then actually work?  Plus for the self employed that money has not even gone out yet.  I know.  And what do you suppose will happen to that salon that can’t get their employees back to work because of that stupid provision, they will go out of business due to lack of help.  Not to mention now that that loan is can not be used for payroll it will not be forgiven. 

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

It is a Nazi slogan...

I think Elliot is perfectly aware what it is and what it means. Just, perhaps, not sure why it was used in this occasion, or protests the use.

[Alan Klein]

Bullshit. The CARES act provided for $600 a week unemployment *on top of* the regular unemployment check. The average unemployment check in the US is $378 a week. That would be better than the equivalent of $50,000 a year in most cases, although the CARES act only provides for the supplement for four months. Either the NYT or WAPO carried a story about a woman who ran a large salon in California and applied for and got a government grant that allowed her to keep paying the people on her payroll, only to find out they were all pissed off at her because her salaries were lower than the enhanced unemployment.

So isn't that a stupid law?  You want people to get back to work not sit on their asses at home collecting $1000 a week.   How is a company going to start up again if his employees can make more money not working than working? And why are we taxpayers paying someone not to work with our hard earned money?  I had to make my money the old-fashioned way.  I had to work for it. 

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Bullshit. The CARES act provided for $600 a week unemployment *on top of* the regular unemployment check. The average unemployment check in the US is $378 a week. That would be better than the equivalent of $50,000 a year in most cases, although the CARES act only provides for the supplement for four months. Either the NYT or WAPO carried a story about a woman who ran a large salon in California and applied for and got a government grant that allowed her to keep paying the people on her payroll, only to find out they were all pissed off at her because her salaries were lower than the enhanced unemployment.

Perhaps. When you get it and if you get it. The system is never designed to handle 30 million applicants and there are already stories about crashing web sites, endless on-hold phone calls, etc.

Not to mention a great deal of gray economy that may or may not qualify for it.

But I get your point and hope it all works well for those involved.

[Alan Klein]

Thanks for that!  Best laff of the week.

Indeed. I've known quite a few military and non of them would cosplay like those posers.

The Soviet Union was overthrown without a shot be fired. Communist ruled Eastern Europe fell similarly. American armed forces swear an oath to protect the constitution.  You're assuming none of the Generals and Admirals will respect that oath and shoot other Americans. Some units would resist and join the rebels.  We did have experience with this once.  It's call the Civil War.  Remember the whole thing about an armed militia is to support one's state's National Guard and Reserves.  We are a Federal Republic made up of sovereign states.  Just like governors rightly told Trump to go fly a kite with the virus, the same thing would happen if a dictator took over.  Governors would resist and there would be a call to arms.  You're assuming an international war between the American military and a foreign army.  That's not what would happen in a civil revolt. 

[John Camp]

So isn't that a stupid law?  You want people to get back to work not sit on their asses at home collecting $1000 a week.   How is a company going to start up again if his employees can make more money not working than working? And why are we taxpayers paying someone not to work with our hard earned money?  I had to make my money the old-fashioned way.  I had to work for it.

Alan, of course I want people to work. I'm 76 and I'm still working, and I don't plan to quit until I drop dead. I believe work is a benefit all by itself, and that a person would be much better off earning $1000 a week than by getting a government check for doing nothing. I think thousands of small businesses are being crushed. But it's not just one thing -- it's that people are dying because of contact with other people, and a shut-down is the only way we have to deal with it at the moment. I think businesses should reopen as soon as we know it won't kill thousands of people. One of the things that Trumpers never seem to get is that their opposition often takes a wide variety of positions on these things, while they take only one: that Trump is right. I've said before that I'm only somewhat liberal, and most of that is on social issues (I think gays should be allowed to marry, I think marijuana should be decriminalized, if not legalized, I support freedom of choice, I think gun privileges should be somewhat restricted, etc.) But I'm actually somewhat conservative on financial and economic issues, while at the same time I think that wealthy people have an absolute obligation to freely (not through taxes) give substantial percentages of their wealth to charities. Trump believes in what will get him re-elected, and he believes in money, and that's about it. That's why us non-Trumpers struggle with what you guys have to say. Because it doesn't make much sense. There's no thought behind it. It's just Trump.

[Alan Klein]

Here's a special news-note for Alan, from a website run by that commie-loving Wall Street Journal:

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell sparked a political firestorm last week when he said U.S. states should file for bankruptcy, if need be, rather than taking federal aid, which could amount to states scaling back or pulling the plug on their pension obligations.
“There’s not going to be any desire on the Republican side to bail out state pensions by borrowing money from future generations,” McConnell told conservative talk show host Hugh Hewitt last week. “I would certainly be in favor of allowing states to use the bankruptcy route,” he added.
So, the big retirement news of the moment is that the top Republican in Congress would prefer that public pensions default on their obligations to retirees. What’s more, he made the remarks on exactly the same day that Social Security and Medicare trustees warned their funds are going to be depleted before most middle-aged people ever see a nickel.
But the state pension systems are small potatoes compared with the real retirement story: Social Security and Medicare.
And McConnell was speaking just as the trustees of those two systems warned that they, too, are running out of money and will need a lot of extra cash. Just don’t call it a “bailout.”
Without extra money, Social Security will exhaust its trust funds in 15 years, the trustees warn. Medicare’s Hospital Insurance fund will be exhausted in just six.

Well, I've been talking about states going bankrupt for a long time.  Obviously, I have been concerned about me and my wife's pension.  There's a clause in New York State's constitution that protects public pensions where we get ours.  They must be paid before other state expenses.  So we should be protected.  However, in a bankruptcy, I don't know what would happen.  Maybe Chris has some idea.

Social Security and Medicare are different beasts.  They can change the retirement year raising it again.  It's now 66 and was 65 years.  Medicare coverage is not free.
WE pay thousands yearly and there's even a  deductible.  Those costs and deductibles can be  increased. Since they're federally funded, the government can just print money if things really get bad.  What do you think they're doing now.  We had a trillion deficit this year.  With the virus it will now be 3-4 trillion.  Think of all the film you could buy.   States cannot print money power the constitution.  They have to balance their budgets, raise taxes or issue bonds. Of course they don;t want to raise taxes or they won't get re-elected.  Democracy is funny that way.  But someone has to purchase bonds which isn't guaranteed if the state is in big financial trouble.  And the interest rates will be exorbitant due to the risk. 

The main issue with state's being broke is moral hazard, sort of the same problem we had with banks in 2008.  When the government bails out bad business decisions or states that spend too much, there's no incentive to run a tight ship.  No one cares because if they screw up, the government will bail them out.  No one bailed me out when I had problems.  I guess I wasn't big enough to not fail.   So I think the US government should not bail out any state except New York. One out of fifty ain't bad and sounds reasonable to me. 

[Alan Klein]

Oh John knock it off.  You really think it is better For people just to collect from the government then actually work?  Plus for the self employed that money has not even gone out yet.  I know.  And what do you suppose will happen to that salon that can’t get their employees back to work because of that stupid provision, they will go out of business due to lack of help.  Not to mention now that that loan is can not be used for payroll it will not be forgiven. 

She'll have to send the money back to the government.  Now when has that happened before? 

[Craig Lamson]

Alan, try to stick to your area of expertise, whatever that may be. Most US military rifles didn't have full auto, though that may be changing. They had a selector switch which the operator could move between single-shot and burst mode, with burst mode firing three rounds. Full auto, which was give to certain elite units, would allow you to dump an entire magazine. For soldiers with less training (and most have less training than the elites) full-auto would allow a panicked reaction that would leave the soldier with an empty magazine just when he needed it most. Most soldiers were told to keep the weapon on single-shot, which is essentially what a semi-auto does, EXCEPT that work-arounds were provided by certain American companies (called bump stocks.) Bump stocks essentially allowed semi-autos to be fired in bursts, and that made them into something close to military assault rifles, although bump stocks are inherently inaccurate and are useful only for shooting into unarmed crowds, as happened in Las Vegas.

These rifles basically have one function: to kill people. In many states, until recently, these .223 rifles were not allowed for hunting because they weren't deadly enough. The .223s are actually considerably less powerful than common bolt action hunting rifles, and weren't allowed because there was evidence that they created more wounded animals, which would get away and then die a slow death, than more powerful rifles. Further, these rifles are generally less accurate, and even when well-tuned, can't compete with a well-tuned bolt-action. If you want to punch paper and test your accuracy skill, you'd be better off with a bolt-action. If you want to hunt, you'd be better off with either a more powerful rifle (for big game) or a less powerful one (a .22) for small game. I've given up hunting, though I still have a hunting cabin in Wisconsin, and when you'd be out during deer season, and you'd hear a bap-bap-bap-bap-bap from a .223 or an AK, you'd think, "Oh, shit, some clueless asshole is out here in the woods with me."

The idea that these rifles could be used to fight off a tyranny in the US is a fantasy indulged by people who like to intimidate others with their weapons. If there is ever a real tyranny in the US, it will be supported by the military, who would eat these wanna-be patriots for lunch.

Are you sure the military would support a tyranny?

In any case,

Calibers for the ar15 platform:
https://gundigest.com/rifles/ar-15/ar-15-calibers-and-cartridges-what-should-you-chamber-your-carbine

and if you want a bit more, there is always the ar-10

[Craig Lamson]

A better question is what is the purpose of owning a gun that was developed to kill people? I'm glad your constitution protects you and you can carry around assault guns to your local Walmart...but I feel very safe living in a country who's rights do not dictate owning and carrying around guns whose sole purpose is to kill people.

I have enough friends in the states that carry guns either on themselves or at the very least within their vehicles and homes for safety. Yet I've lived without a gun, many of those years in Vancouver, and never once felt unsafe. So go figure...everyone carrying guns just to feel safe...what's wrong with this picture?

ALL guns can kill people.  So can cars.  Or even Diesel fuel and fertilizer.  Or your mothers pressure cooker.

[Craig Lamson]

It is a Nazi slogan.  Details here:

https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/495800-auschwitz-museum-condemns-nazi-slogan-at-re-open-illinois

Or its just "work sets you free"

[Alan Klein]

Alan, of course I want people to work. I'm 76 and I'm still working, and I don't plan to quit until I drop dead. I believe work is a benefit all by itself, and that a person would be much better off earning $1000 a week than by getting a government check for doing nothing. I think thousands of small businesses are being crushed. But it's not just one thing -- it's that people are dying because of contact with other people, and a shut-down is the only way we have to deal with it at the moment. I think businesses should reopen as soon as we know it won't kill thousands of people. One of the things that Trumpers never seem to get is that their opposition often takes a wide variety of positions on these things, while they take only one: that Trump is right. I've said before that I'm only somewhat liberal, and most of that is on social issues (I think gays should be allowed to marry, I think marijuana should be decriminalized, if not legalized, I support freedom of choice, I think gun privileges should be somewhat restricted, etc.) But I'm actually somewhat conservative on financial and economic issues, while at the same time I think that wealthy people have an absolute obligation to freely (not through taxes) give substantial percentages of their wealth to charities. Trump believes in what will get him re-elected, and he believes in money, and that's about it. That's why us non-Trumpers struggle with what you guys have to say. Because it doesn't make much sense. There's no thought behind it. It's just Trump.

I voted for Trump but still think Trump does dumb things too.  Unlike a parliamentary system, we only get a couple of choices.  His cavalier attitude about debt from his years as a real estate developer who live on debt and leverage, has made a mockery of fiscal responsibility, one of the hallmarks of Republicanism, conservatism, capitalism, and a few other isms. The Congress has thrown all in with printing so fearful they are of being thrown out of office.  96-0 senate vote for the CARES act.  CARES?  They don't care about anything except getting re-elected.  You have heard me here before talking about it.  So on that issue I think we agree.

But shutting down business at the same time giving those business money to pay salaries doesn't make sense.  IF you own a restaurant let's say, and you rehire all your staff, who's coming to your place to eat anyway?  Let's say local ordinances allow you to open the restaurant so half the people can fill up to keep space between the patrons.  Well, why does he need all those workers than?  How is he going to pay all his other bills for rent, electricity, etc.?  He might as well just shut down which is what is going to happen.  So the smart thing for the government to do, is let the chips fall where they might.  A lot of business should fail.  That's how free markets work.  It improves the remaining ones and allows employees to move from less successful to more successful businesses where they can be more productive and earn more.  That strengthens the country.  Use unemployment insurance for those out of work until they can find new employment.  Don’t spend good money after bad money for failing businesses.  That's just stupid.

Also, companies in business now who are working are getting a gift from the government.  If the government pays let's say $1000 a week for 200 employees times 8 weeks, that's $1.6 million in additional "income" that goes to the bottom line.  The owner sticks that money in his pocket.  After all, profits belong to him not the employees.  They would have gotten their salaries anyway.  So now the owner saves their salaries and pays them with government money. So why are we the taxpayers giving rich owners $1.6 million in additional income when their business never closed during the virus?  Whats the sense in that?  That's just plain dumb.  This is what Mnuchin figured out?  Of course, it's all being done because of the election.  Trump wants to win as do all the other losers in Washington who care little about our money.

[chez]

This is the type of condescending liberal, elitist crap that deserves a FU from "the low-wagers." If you ever lived off unemployment benefits, you'd know that is hardly enough to pay half the bills. There are 30 million unemployed due to the liberals/democrats/progressives or whatever else crap.

Slobo...do you know what the f'ck your are talking about here? Any idea what Canada is doing. I suggest you do some homework before flapping your mouth. Not only are people getting up to 80% of their wage, they are getting most of their rent paid for as well as just about any payments for things like taxes, hydro, electricity etc...deferred until they get back to work. I can tell you the people that used to work in restaurants or other stores are doing OK right now. Even the homeless are being put up in hotels now with 3 meals.

Have no idea how the US treats its poorest people...but I can imagine.

[chez]

ALL guns can kill people.  So can cars.  Or even Diesel fuel and fertilizer.  Or your mothers pressure cooker.

Yes, but those other things have a different purpose than just killing like guns. I think you are smart enough to know the difference...oh wait...it's Craig, maybe not.

[chez]

This is the type of condescending liberal, elitist crap that deserves a FU from "the low-wagers." If you ever lived off unemployment benefits, you'd know that is hardly enough to pay half the bills. There are 30 million unemployed due to the liberals/democrats/progressives or whatever else crap.

Trump tweeted that doing the lock down was the right thing compared to Sweden. Now your Trumpateers must agree with your herder right.