PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political

[JoeKitchen]

This ain't Rob C!

I was referencing your comment about Chavez, who obviously got that VIP treatment. 

[LesPalenik]

And this does nothing to negate the actual poor health system in Cuba and the utter poor conditions of the hospitals. 

I never said that the Cuban hospitals were better than the ones in USA. And I never endorsed a communist system.
The fact remains that they do some advanced research in oncology and also their general practitioners are more experienced in the basic practical care than their counterparts in USA and Canada whose preference is push pills and send the patients to specialists (many incompetent as well) and rely on their reports.

When it comes to complicated surgeries I would trust more the US and Canadian surgeons and modern hospitals, but for simple diagnosis and treatments the Cuban doctors may be better and more skilled. I say it because in Canada I've seen several cases of delayed and botched fracture repairs (wrist, forearm, shoulder). I'm sure that there are many great doctors here, but unfortunately I had more experience with incompetent practitioners and even needless surgeries.

[Jim Pascoe]

I take Raul's opinion because he is a Cuban and would know a lot better then you or Chez.  Not to mention his account is similar to everything I have read on the Cuban healthcare system when you actually rip off the communist veneer. 

Last, considering the abject state of Havana, Cuba's prime city, how both Old Havana and Central Havana are literally crumbling into the street, with buildings in such condition that they would have been condemned decades ago anywhere else yet with people still living in them, I highly doubt they would have the money or the caring to actually build a robust healthcare system.

I have no experience or axe to grind, but even a quick look in Google came up with this link - and another stated that the average life-expectancy in Cuba is marginally higher than in the US - despite running on low resources.  https://theconversation.com/is-the-cuban-healthcare-system-really-as-great-as-people-claim-69526

Jim

[Alan Klein]

Blaming anybody for their past wrong decisions whether it's Trump or Chinese, won't help anybody. The main thing is to think rationally and make the right decisions from now on. Keeping further away from others and bringing some jobs back home from Asia would be good for now and also in the future.

Well, Trump has been trying to bring jobs back home and to stop China from stealing from us.  That would help Canada too. So now, not only has China stolen, but has destroyed economies around the world because of their perfidy regarding the virus.  But everyone here complained Trump was doing the wrong thing.  Do you now want to see he was right and give him a little credit? 

[Robert Roaldi]

Instead of jingoism, maybe the more useful way to approach this is to ask why is Cuba able to do as well as it does given the lack of resources. They obviously do some things right, it could be of benefit to know how they manage it.

And yes, we all know that Venezuela is in a bad state.

[Robert Roaldi]

Well, Trump has been trying to bring jobs back home and to stop China from stealing from us.  That would help Canada too. So now, not only has China stolen, but has destroyed economies around the world because of their perfidy regarding the virus.  But everyone here complained Trump was doing the wrong thing.  Do you now want to see he was right and give him a little credit?

How has Trump tried to do that?

[Alan Klein]

And what have I and others been saying? Some countries have already reopened this week, slowly and in a phased strategy, different sectors at different time. In EU we are following EU and WHO recommendations (6 in total), which need to be adjusted for local variations between countries and even inside each country.

Glad to see you're onboard. Now let's get to work.

[chez]

Death is a fact (and part) of life. Life itself is a sexually transmitted, lethal disease. In the U.S., in a regular year (2017), 2.8 million people died. That is about 7,500 A DAY, EVERY DAY. I'd say my threshold is pretty high.

You have a daughter in the states. How would you feel if someone broke into her home one day and blew her away. Would that make it 7,501 deaths for that day? Would that cross your high threshold or is her death just a fact of life?

[Alan Klein]

We received a plane-load of equipment from our "new best chums" China a few days ago. There was a time when America was in a position to look after themselves and others - now it looks like you are comparing your response with the places you mentioned? WOW!

Now, please don't say "ah well, let China have those shithole countries".... in this day and age we all need each other - large and small.

China cares about nobody except China.  They're paying off African leaders to get their minerals and other resources.  Africa will be indebted to them for the next 100 years like the European colonialists of the past. 

[chez]

I note that they revised the Wuhan death-rate up by ~50%.... It then causes one to worry about any information coming from a source that can't be trusted.

The other day NY also adjusted their death toll to incorporate people that die away from the hospitals but have Covid symptoms. It also spiked the death toll.

In the end I feel the best approximation of the death toll resulting from the Corona virus is to take average death tolls from previous years and compare them to the death tolls this year over the same period of time. I believe this was done in Italy over a few week period and the difference in deaths was quite staggering. In other words, the death toll everyone watches is really under represented.

[Alan Klein]

I am really quite happy with the (new)president I have thank you. As I mentioned in a previous post, we acted maturely and decisively and the results are there for all to see in the graph I posted yesterday.

Please bear in mind that this is a government for whom I have never voted and whose previousleader virtually bankrupted our country through theft and corruption - on the day we declared our lockdown the ratings agencies downgraded our economy to "junk status"!

We got precisely what everyone should expect from a good leader: the facts, the hard truth, a clear plan (which is being tweaked as necessary). Most importantly, he involved his opposition parties before he declared the State of Disaster and has their full support. We have one or two scary opposition parties that make Bernie Sanders look like a choirboy and they seem to have brought their supporters along with them to a large extent.

As things stand at the moment - there is nowhere else in the world I would rather be.

I am pretty sure there would not be half as much criticism of your president if just once, just once, he conceded that he might have made one or two missteps along the way. No-one saw this thing coming and everyone would probably do things differently with the benefit of hindsight - but not him, or his fanatical supporters.

We defend Trump because the other side has spent four years trying to destroy him and his presidency.  Frim charges of treason to impeachment, it hasn't stopped.  Regarding policy, I don;t agree with everything he's done or the way he talks about things very often.  But that's New York bombast coming from a non-politicaian. But his policies for the most part have been pretty good.

[JoeKitchen]

I never said that the Cuban hospitals were better than the ones in USA. And I never endorsed a communist system.
The fact remains that they do some advanced research in oncology and also their general practitioners are more experienced in the basic practical care than their counterparts in USA and Canada whose preference is push pills and send the patients to specialists (many incompetent as well) and rely on their reports.

When it comes to complicated surgeries I would trust more the US and Canadian surgeons and modern hospitals, but for simple diagnosis and treatments the Cuban doctors may be better and more skilled. I say it because in Canada I've seen several cases of delayed and botched fracture repairs (wrist, forearm, shoulder). I'm sure that there are many great doctors here, but unfortunately I had more experience with incompetent practitioners and even needless surgeries.

Okay, I will give you that. 

However, I think the larger reason for lower prevalence of cancers and other things in poorer countries is more due to a drastically different diet.  Poor people tend to eat healthier due to less meat in their diet.  Although, we certainly screwed that up here too. 

So yes, we screwed ourselves from two different directions on preventative care. 

[JoeKitchen]

I have no experience or axe to grind, but even a quick look in Google came up with this link - and another stated that the average life-expectancy in Cuba is marginally higher than in the US - despite running on low resources.  https://theconversation.com/is-the-cuban-healthcare-system-really-as-great-as-people-claim-69526

Jim

See my post above. 

We, in the west, are eating ourselves to death, plain and simple. 

[Paulo Bizarro]

Glad to see you're onboard. Now let's get to work.

In Portugal, the best way right now for many to combat the virus is to stay at home, and when going out do what is recommended by the health authorities. Many other people, who are vital to the economy and the health sectors, have kept on working during the lockdown.

[JoeKitchen]

The other day NY also adjusted their death toll to incorporate people that die away from the hospitals but have Covid symptoms. It also spiked the death toll.

In the end I feel the best approximation of the death toll resulting from the Corona virus is to take average death tolls from previous years and compare them to the death tolls this year over the same period of time. I believe this was done in Italy over a few week period and the difference in deaths was quite staggering. In other words, the death toll everyone watches is really under represented.

Or no symptoms at all, just died in their home without ever being examined.  Of course some of those 3700 probably died from COVID-19, but some surely died of typical stuff like heart attacks, etc.  But if you need to justify the lock down, the more deaths you can point to the better I guess. 

[chez]

Well, Trump has been trying to bring jobs back home and to stop China from stealing from us.  That would help Canada too. So now, not only has China stolen, but has destroyed economies around the world because of their perfidy regarding the virus.  But everyone here complained Trump was doing the wrong thing.  Do you now want to see he was right and give him a little credit?

Right...so now the greatest economy of the world will be competing with the likes of China and Vietnam in manufacturing $1 t-shirts. Yeh...that's progress...and the people working in these "sweat shops" will be paid...what $.50 / hour?

[Paulo Bizarro]

China cares about nobody except China.  They're paying off African leaders to get their minerals and other resources.  Africa will be indebted to them for the next 100 years like the European colonialists of the past.

So what has the USA done differently in Africa, compared to China? I am familar with the oil industry in Angola, for starters.

Has China started any wars like in the Middle East to control oil reserves?

[chez]

How has Trump tried to do that?

By putting tariffs onto everything with China reacting with their own tariffs...leaving the farmers of the US holding the bag and dumping their crops.

[Alan Klein]

Since we are all here old farts, an observation. Those who are frantically in favor of lockdowns are mostly pensioners. They've been in a lockdown ever since they retired. Sitting at home, rocking the chair, watching TV reruns. Going out once a week to Costco. The current lockdown is a piece of cake for them. Their checks are coming regularly. Not much has changed in their life. That's why they couldn't care less about the working population, those living paycheck to paycheck, the lack of which is devastating for them. Those are the people that have to go out, hustle, fight to be able to pay the next rent, feed the family. Small business owners losing their business. Young folks whose careers will be set back for years. Graduates who will wait years for the first job. In the meantime, our dear pensioners will rock their chair, with beer in hand, watching favorite reruns.

Have you been peeking through my window? Of course, I do believe the economy should get going.  I feel bad for those younger people who are going to have a hard time.  Both my daughter and son-in-law are lucky.  They've been able to work at home and continue to get most of their salaries.  But my daughter has also put off medical care she needs. 

I know a lot of people who are living day-to-day with fear about how they're going to pay their rent or mortgage, utilities and buy food.  I just mailed another check to my cleaning girl to help out because she's had no work in a month with us or anywhere else.  I don't even know if she's a citizen but she has a family to feed also. I'm sure she's not going to get unemployment insurance.  When my men's group would go out every Friday morning for our ritual breakfasts together, the waitresses would fight with each other for the privilege of attending to us knowing they'd get good tips.  There are no Friday breakfasts any more.  How are these women making out?  How are they feeding their families?

[JoeKitchen]

By putting tariffs onto everything with China reacting with their own tariffs...leaving the farmers of the US holding the bag and dumping their crops.

And yet 83% of farmers still support Trump in the last polling.