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Author Topic: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political  (Read 500221 times)

John Camp

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #1560 on: April 16, 2020, 11:48:33 pm »

<big snip>

In any case, Michigan is having protests about the shutdown.  The Governor is under attack, the kind that Trump is avoiding by letting the governors handle their states.  Michigan is one of the battleground states Trump won in 2016.


Several states have had protests by these tea party fruitcakes. I've seen news reports that said "several thousand" showed up for the protest in Lansing. There are about 10 million Michigan residents. If ten thousand showed up for protest (and I think that would be a large over-estimate) then about 9,990,000 didn't. In fact, the people who showed up at the protest were probably the same bunch of tea party fruitcakes who show up at Trump rallies. So, I don't think either Whitmer or the Democrats are sweating it.
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Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #1561 on: April 17, 2020, 01:35:45 am »

You're right. Probably just the deplorables anyway.

LesPalenik

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #1562 on: April 17, 2020, 02:30:28 am »

What I find distressful is how so many aren't blaming the Chinese. They'd rather focus on blaming Trump as if he had something to do with the deaths in Italy, Spain and elsewhere. The perfidy of China in first releasing it and then deliberately lying about what it was and what happened, delayed proper response by the world.  While they blocked Wuhan travelers from leaving Wuhan province to other parts of China, they criminally let these people travel to other parts of the world carrying the disease. One wonders if they figured it might give them a bump in moving into the #1 spot economically and strategically in the world.  I for one, wouldn't put it past them.

Blaming anybody for their past wrong decisions whether it's Trump or Chinese, won't help anybody. The main thing is to think rationally and make the right decisions from now on. Keeping further away from others and bringing some jobs back home from Asia would be good for now and also in the future.
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Paulo Bizarro

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #1563 on: April 17, 2020, 04:00:06 am »

We have to start sometime. If we wait until we're 100%, there won't be any cheese left for a mouse to get a tooth in.

And what have I and others been saying? Some countries have already reopened this week, slowly and in a phased strategy, different sectors at different time. In EU we are following EU and WHO recommendations (6 in total), which need to be adjusted for local variations between countries and even inside each country.

Paulo Bizarro

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #1564 on: April 17, 2020, 04:04:26 am »

That sounds like a two-car collision in India  ;)

P.S. NOW I am being an asshole... sorry my Indian friends.

I am glad you find it appropriate to make jokes about numbers of dead people. I am curious to see to what would you compare death numbers in Italy, Spain, UK, or even USA? What is you threshold for human life loss?

William Walker

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #1565 on: April 17, 2020, 04:11:31 am »

I hear Africa too is starving for PPE and testing kits. With all the bitching and moaning, we did pretty well with all that stuff.  We're really blessed and don't know it often enough.

We received a plane-load of equipment from our "new best chums" China a few days ago. There was a time when America was in a position to look after themselves and others - now it looks like you are comparing your response with the places you mentioned? WOW!

Now, please don't say "ah well, let China have those shithole countries".... in this day and age we all need each other - large and small.
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Paulo Bizarro

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #1566 on: April 17, 2020, 04:18:31 am »

I'm not claiming that Covid isn;t devastating.  At 75, I'm in the target group for serious problems with it.  I also agree that isolation is limiting the cases and deaths.  What's going to happen, I believe, it that after it all settle down, there are going to be a lot of people who will compare it to the flu statistics and ask why we shut down the economy and why they don't have a job or lost their business and can't feed their family. 

I think that's why Trump decided to let the governors make all the decisions going forward regarding opening their states.  He'll say he wanted to open earlier, but the governors just kept delaying it.  NY and NJ governors have put it off already until May 15th, another month.  If Trump did it, and he would have, he'd get blamed. 

In the end, I don;t think it's going to matter much.  If the economy is still tanking in November, he's going to have a tough time getting re-elected.  The country could get lucky and recover a lot by then.  Then he'll get a lot of the credit and might win because of it.  It's too early to tell. 

In any case, Michigan is having protests about the shutdown.  The Governor is under attack, the kind that Trump is avoiding by letting the governors handle their states.  Michigan is one of the battleground states Trump won in 2016.

"Her (the Michigan governor) decisions are under a microscope and have been met with considerable pushback in the state, particularly her move this week to extend her stay-at-home order until the end of April. Her executive orders contain some of the nation's toughest restrictions, including prohibiting people from visiting friends, traveling to their vacation homes in the state and closing a range of businesses deemed non-essential, including garden shops.
She said she understood the economic consequences of her actions, with a staggering one-quarter of the state's eligible workforce now seeking unemployment assistance, but she defended her decision as necessary to try to slow the coronavirus outbreak."

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/16/politics/gretchen-whitmer-michigan-protests/index.html

So he can not even take responsibility for implementing measures? He really is a coward.

Funny that some measures are following WHO's recommendations, another of his blame targets. What a clown.

William Walker

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #1567 on: April 17, 2020, 04:29:58 am »

Isn't that the same as what you expect of the president?

I am really quite happy with the (new)president I have thank you. As I mentioned in a previous post, we acted maturely and decisively and the results are there for all to see in the graph I posted yesterday.

Please bear in mind that this is a government for whom I have never voted and whose previousleader virtually bankrupted our country through theft and corruption - on the day we declared our lockdown the ratings agencies downgraded our economy to "junk status"!

We got precisely what everyone should expect from a good leader: the facts, the hard truth, a clear plan (which is being tweaked as necessary). Most importantly, he involved his opposition parties before he declared the State of Disaster and has their full support. We have one or two scary opposition parties that make Bernie Sanders look like a choirboy and they seem to have brought their supporters along with them to a large extent.

As things stand at the moment - there is nowhere else in the world I would rather be.

I am pretty sure there would not be half as much criticism of your president if just once, just once, he conceded that he might have made one or two missteps along the way. No-one saw this thing coming and everyone would probably do things differently with the benefit of hindsight - but not him, or his fanatical supporters.

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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #1568 on: April 17, 2020, 04:57:40 am »

I am glad you find it appropriate to make jokes about numbers of dead people. I am curious to see to what would you compare death numbers in Italy, Spain, UK, or even USA? What is you threshold for human life loss?

Death is a fact (and part) of life. Life itself is a sexually transmitted, lethal disease. In the U.S., in a regular year (2017), 2.8 million people died. That is about 7,500 A DAY, EVERY DAY. I'd say my threshold is pretty high.

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #1569 on: April 17, 2020, 05:09:39 am »

Since we are all here old farts, an observation. Those who are frantically in favor of lockdowns are mostly pensioners. They've been in a lockdown ever since they retired. Sitting at home, rocking the chair, watching TV reruns. Going out once a week to Costco. The current lockdown is a piece of cake for them. Their checks are coming regularly. Not much has changed in their life. That's why they couldn't care less about the working population, those living paycheck to paycheck, the lack of which is devastating for them. Those are the people that have to go out, hustle, fight to be able to pay the next rent, feed the family. Small business owners losing their business. Young folks whose careers will be set back for years. Graduates who will wait years for the first job. In the meantime, our dear pensioners will rock their chair, with beer in hand, watching favorite reruns.

elliot_n

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #1570 on: April 17, 2020, 05:36:31 am »

I found last night’s press conference reassuring. Trump has finally adopted all of the WHO pandemic guidelines — albeit 3 months too late.  Overall it felt like a roundabout way of saying that America won’t be opening any time soon. The experts have prevailed and the virus will be carefully managed out of existence. There really is no other option.
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elliot_n

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #1571 on: April 17, 2020, 05:40:15 am »

"They seem to be protestors who like me."

Photo of the year.


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Jim Pascoe

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #1572 on: April 17, 2020, 05:55:37 am »

Since we are all here old farts, an observation. Those who are frantically in favor of lockdowns are mostly pensioners. They've been in a lockdown ever since they retired. Sitting at home, rocking the chair, watching TV reruns. Going out once a week to Costco. The current lockdown is a piece of cake for them. Their checks are coming regularly. Not much has changed in their life. That's why they couldn't care less about the working population, those living paycheck to paycheck, the lack of which is devastating for them. Those are the people that have to go out, hustle, fight to be able to pay the next rent, feed the family. Small business owners losing their business. Young folks whose careers will be set back for years. Graduates who will wait years for the first job. In the meantime, our dear pensioners will rock their chair, with beer in hand, watching favorite reruns.

Slobodan - I do think you have a point here - but it is a generalisation too far.  To start off with, we have lots of 'old farts' as friends (I'm obviously not one at only 58.... :) and they are mostly very active, playing tennis, members of clubs and societies etc.  In addition, they have children and grandchildren that they have been unable to see for many weeks.  They may also have family who are really struggling financially - are you suggesting they don't care? 
We have five children, four of whom have partners, who are all still working either from home or in essential roles.  In fact grandpa Jim (me) is the only one barely working as I'm a photographer.
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Rob C

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #1573 on: April 17, 2020, 06:32:15 am »

No reason to... they gave us the freedom to choose. I also do not have a gun, but cherish the option to get one if I decide so.

What, in Serbia? Just when I thought I might take a drive around there instead of France when this is over...

Shit! I'll have to keep buying my own coffees - when they are for sale again. I usually pay anything between € 1.40 - € 1.60 for them here; I wonder what the prices will work out to be post-Corrie. I remember clearly that on the first Sunday after Spain joined the Euro that the price of a coffee had exactly doubled; no reasons given and no excuses: simply a fait accompli because folks were confused about the translation from peseta to euro and by the time they figured it out, the new standard had been set.

It's an ill wind... Sad thing was, in pesetas I was a millionaire. I quite enjoyed the sensation...

As I stood in the shower this morning, it came to me that tomorrow marks the 39th Anniversary of my permanant residence in Spain. How time flies. I can remember our excited farewell to Glasgow Airport. Of course, we went back and forth on visits lots of times after that, but 'twas here that we lived.

Rob

Rob C

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #1574 on: April 17, 2020, 06:39:38 am »

You been there much Joe? Know anything about Cuba other than what your American propoganda machine feeds you?

I've actually used the Cuban medical system and they did a fine job for free. Their philosophy is medical treatment is a right...not something that is bought.

Yes doctors are not paid as much as in the USA...but talking with the ones working there, they are very proud to be of such value to their society. That is why they went into medicine...to help people, not to buy Beverly Hills mansions and drive new Porches every year.

Ditto my granddaughter when she took it up in Britain. One of the reasons she was accepted into the Med School in Edinburgh was because of all the voluntary work she had done through her school years, assisting at first-aid posts at various events and so forth. In other words, as a kid she had demonstrated that it was a vocation and not a meal ticket. When I think of it, just like her granddad - moi - in his own little field. Money never entered the equation, which from some perspectives might actually have been a mistake, but nothing else would have brought me the experiences and lifestyle.

Rob C

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #1575 on: April 17, 2020, 06:51:53 am »

Be nice, Rob.  I've owned a Caterham.

:D

But they are Brtitish, and have to go through homologation and so they meet all the Brit standards. I'm thinking of those cars in the States that start life as a basic Mustang and end up with over a thousand horses under the hood. Who knows whether the chassis, the brakes, the suspension have been brought up to match the output? And if they have, how well was that work done? Home workshops are dangerous places: the ability to weld and spank a spanner do not make for scientific understanding of loads, stresses and all the rest of it that goes unseen, ready to disintegrate at the right inconvenient moment.

;-)

JoeKitchen

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #1576 on: April 17, 2020, 07:05:06 am »

Since we are all here old farts, an observation. Those who are frantically in favor of lockdowns are mostly pensioners. They've been in a lockdown ever since they retired. Sitting at home, rocking the chair, watching TV reruns. Going out once a week to Costco. The current lockdown is a piece of cake for them. Their checks are coming regularly. Not much has changed in their life. That's why they couldn't care less about the working population, those living paycheck to paycheck, the lack of which is devastating for them. Those are the people that have to go out, hustle, fight to be able to pay the next rent, feed the family. Small business owners losing their business. Young folks whose careers will be set back for years. Graduates who will wait years for the first job. In the meantime, our dear pensioners will rock their chair, with beer in hand, watching favorite reruns.

Exactly!
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JoeKitchen

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #1577 on: April 17, 2020, 07:07:20 am »

I found last night’s press conference reassuring. Trump has finally adopted all of the WHO pandemic guidelines — albeit 3 months too late.  Overall it felt like a roundabout way of saying that America won’t be opening any time soon. The experts have prevailed and the virus will be carefully managed out of existence. There really is no other option.

Yes, lets destroy the entire world economy over a virus the overwhelming majority will survive.  Yep, really no other option. 
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Rob C

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #1578 on: April 17, 2020, 07:13:53 am »

You can tell his opinion is bull when he could not refute Raul with any comebacks.


Venezuela's Chavez went to Cuba for his cancer work; he could have gone anywhere in the world.

Raul may or may not be accurate; he may or may not have his personal, political, agenda. Why do you take his point of view as gospel, but deny the views of anyone who isn't Republican the validity of their points of view?

I'm British, lived there a long time and still have my adult childen working there. I was a life-long Conservative until the Brexit débâcle revealed the festering malaise beneath the smooth exterior carapace. Unable to contain themselves, the powers behind the charming, sophisticated face showed themselves for the first time for the merciless, greedy shits that they really are. I am now without political allegiances and the world reveals itself as a different place to the one I had been conditioned to see through my traditional blue specs. And no, despite Slobodan's funny quips, those new glass are not pink: they are clear and devoid of tint.

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #1579 on: April 17, 2020, 07:15:42 am »

Slobodan - I do think you have a point here - but it is a generalisation too far...

Jim, I am aware of the generalization. I, for one, at 63 and single, in early retirement, loathe forced lockdowns.
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