PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political

[armand]

Protest online?   

Yeah, that will be effective.

Blocking/clogging their website traffic and their phones will likely be even more effective in this period, more than some puny traffic which is likely no worse than the regular rush hour. But who's to think here?

Sure. You don't like it, stay inside.

QED

I think you guys should live locked on a island, that's where this caveman thinking belongs. So much disregard for other human beings makes me doubt less those who say that we, as a human race, are destined to perish.


There is no argument to be had here.

PS. I'll go to throw up now

[Alan Klein]

No, Alan. They were taken off the cruise line and bused to an army base.

Oh, that's a bummer.  Were they drafted?

[JoeKitchen]

Blocking/clogging their website traffic and their phones will likely be even more effective in this period, more than some puny traffic which is likely no worse than the regular rush hour. But who's to think here?

QED

I think you guys should live locked on a island, that's where this caveman thinking belongs. So much disregard for other human beings makes me doubt less those who say that we, as a human race, are destined to perish.


There is no argument to be had here.

PS. I'll go to throw up now

Not not any worse then their rush hour, then what's the problem? 

Like I said before, I will not give up my first amendment rights because of this virus. 

[Craig Lamson]

Yes, arrivals at Narita airport, Japan.

I was speaking to a London-based Japanese friend this afternoon and she told me that when she flies there next week, she will be tested for Covid on arrival and will then have to stay in an appointed airport hotel for a couple of days until the results come back.

How many arrivals a day? 

[armand]

Not not any worse then their rush hour, then what's the problem? 

Like I said before, I will not give up my first amendment rights because of this virus.

I knew this will be your reply. Think more. ....




Because this was intentionally caused and could have been avoided.

Really, you are set you have to go out. That's where the rational ends. I'm done arguing, I don't think this leads anywhere.

[Craig Lamson]

No, Alan. They were taken off the cruise line and bused to an army base.

Yes, as permitted under us law

[JoeKitchen]

I knew this will be your reply. Think more. ....




Because this was intentionally caused and could have been avoided.

Really, you are set you have to go out. That's where the rational ends. I'm done arguing, I don't think this leads anywhere.

Exactly, intentionally caused, and annoying to state officials in the capital, which is why it was a well directed protest.  That's how successful protests work.

[Alan Klein]

Blocking/clogging their website traffic and their phones will likely be even more effective in this period, more than some puny traffic which is likely no worse than the regular rush hour. But who's to think here?

QED

I think you guys should live locked on a island, that's where this caveman thinking belongs. So much disregard for other human beings makes me doubt less those who say that we, as a human race, are destined to perish.


There is no argument to be had here.

PS. I'll go to throw up now

90% of Americans are isolating at home.  No one's running around like banshees coughing on one another.  From what Slobo is telling us about what's going on in Europe, Americans are acting very stoic and doing the right thing.  I see my neighbors taking a walk and avoiding contact within 6 feet of others.  When I went for a walk and saw a couple coming my way, I crossed over the street to stay at least twenty feet from them.  When I went to the grocery store, the stock boys were wearing gloves and masks.  FedEx drops stuff off without signatures.  Well, they did that before but now it's official company policy.  All the people I know clean stuff off with wipes.  People are using zoom to communicate and see each other. 

The point is we don't need the gestapo to tell us what to do.  Most Americans are responsible.  It's true they're getting squirrely.  They want to get back to work; they're afraid of economic failure.  They're getting bored sitting around in the house and need to get away.  Oh, are you married?

[faberryman]

Yes, as permitted under us law

As a civil libertarian, I would have thought that you would think that testing with the possibility of getting out in two days when the test comes back would be better than no testing and having to stay the full 14 days.

[faberryman]

Exactly, intentionally caused, and annoying to state officials in the capital, which is why it was a well directed protest.  That's how successful protests work.

So the governor backed down? I haven't seen the news yet.

[armand]

90% of Americans are isolating at home.  No one's running around like banshees coughing on one another.  From what Slobo is telling us about what's going on in Europe, Americans are acting very stoic and doing the right thing.  I see my neighbors taking a walk and avoiding contact within 6 feet of others.  When I went for a walk and saw a couple coming my way, I crossed over the street to stay at least twenty feet from them.  When I went to the grocery store, the stock boys were wearing gloves and masks.  FedEx drops stuff off without signatures.  Well, they did that before but now it's official company policy.  All the people I know clean stuff off with wipes.  People are using zoom to communicate and see each other. 

The point is we don't need the gestapo to tell us what to do.  Most Americans are responsible.  It's true they're getting squirrely.  They want to get back to work; they're afraid of economic failure.  They're getting bored sitting around in the house and need to get away.  Oh, are you married?

Last number that I saw for Michigan (I'll admit I don't know how accurate it was) was 50%. My reply was to those who say you should be able to get out when you want to, because you want to.

It's not easy for anybody. Yes, I'm married. And I have to isolate from both my wife and my kids when I come from work, avoiding close contact and sleeping in different rooms for several weeks now. As it happens I also have parents here who got stuck with us and I have to be very conscientious about not exposing them either, although I see myself as a time bomb. That's another reason, when I hear some can't take it to watch another TV show and want to go out because it's their right, I fail to see any thinking done on their part. If you don't have to go out, stay fucking home even if you have an itch. You might actually save a life.
When there is an actual plan to "open" the economy (don't forget the essential services are still working), then see how you fit in and get out accordingly. Nobody wants the economy down, everybody loses. If anything I think most will err on opening too soon rather than too late.
As a last comment, if you had Covid don't think you are invulnerable. You get a heart attack in an overwhelmed system and see how well that's going to go.

[JoeKitchen]

So the governor backed down? I haven't seen the news yet.

I suspect it will be the first of many until she backs down.  If she waits too long, she will not get reelected.  To be honest though, she seems like the type of person that will double down and ruin her career.  Like I said, every really good politician, on the right and left, are talking about opening up.  She is not. 

On top of that, I would be hoping she does not have any skeletons in her past because now people are out for blood. 

[Robert Roaldi]

Trudeau didn't institute a travel ban until Mar 14.  Trump's first travel ban was Jan 31st., six weeks earlier.  Why are Canadians complaining about Trump? It seems misplaced.  I think you need to do some soul searching and get your PM's act together.  He seems to be behind the curve.

The travel has been discounted many times by many people as not having that much of an impact overall. It was a factor, not a major one. I don't know you are harping on it.

The US will sadly have more than 2400 dead today and Canada has had a little over 1000 in total and Canada's population is 1/10th that of the USA. But I'm not happy that Canada's numbers are still trending up.

I don't understand why you are childishly trying to start a USA vs Canada argument. Are we in grade 8 now? Your daddy is bigger than mine, is that where we're at.

[EricV]

Sure. You don't like it, stay inside.

  Really, no limit at all, public interest never outweighs personal freedom?  If I have Ebola, am I free to attend a football game?  The other 50000 spectators can stay at home if they don't like it? 

[JoeKitchen]

  Really, no limit at all, public interest never outweighs personal freedom?  If I have Ebola, am I free to attend a football game?  The other 50000 spectators can stay at home if they don't like it?

Ebola is spread by ingesting an infected person's bodily fluids only.  It can not be transferred through the air. 

Not to mention, if you had ebola, we would know about it and quarantining an known infected person is reasonable.  Quarantining uninfected people is tyranny. 

Last, comparing Ebola to COVID-19 is a grossly bad analogy.  The fatality rate of Ebola is 80%; for this virus it appears to be even lower then a 1%. 

[armand]

Ebola is spread by ingesting an infected person's bodily fluids only.  It can not be transferred through the air. 

Not to mention, if you had ebola, we would know about it and quarantining an known infected person is reasonable.  Quarantining uninfected people is tyranny. 

Last, comparing Ebola to COVID-19 is a grossly bad analogy.  The fatality rate of Ebola is 80%; for this virus it appears to be even lower then a 1%.

HA HA HA HA!

How about you do some reading first.

[JoeKitchen]

HA HA HA HA!

How about you do some reading first.

Care to explain? 

Ebola is only spread though bodily fluids.  Am I wrong?

[chez]

I knew it was serious when we called off our weekly poker game about a month ago.  We also shutdown the men's weekly breakfast.  We didn't check with Trump though.   We figured he was busy enough.

Yeh...don't want to interrupt Trump while he's putting.

[armand]

Not about that, although if you have body fluid on different objects you can get it that way also. Similar actually to covid. It's also quite infectious.
That quarantine of infected people is wonderful if you know about it. You quarantine people exposed to ebola just fine, similar as covid. Look at how things went went it reached US and what a close call it was, it could have been much worse. The main difference is that you are not infectious if you are not symptomatic and the mortality is significantly higher (historically ~ 50%, less with current treatments). We also have a vaccine. And so on.

Those being said, the comparison though is very valid in principle; if there is a public threat, does personal freedom trumps public safety? The answer has always been the same, but now some are trying to rewrite the history. That's where most of HAs were coming from. For crying out loud, they had some social distancing even in 1918.

[chez]

Right. But we didn't close the whole god damn country because of it, nor intentionally crashed the economy.

We changed drastically how one travels. We need to be at the airport at least 1 hour, and more likely 2 hours depending on airports just to be screened for safety. Do you know how much money is tide up sitting in airport lines waiting for your cavity search. How much is all this waiting costing the economy? That's a direct result from 911.

2018 there were 1 billion airline passengers in the US. Say each one spent an extra hour getting early to the airport and waiting in lines. That's 1 billion hours of people's time spent because of 911. Now lets say only 1/2 were business travelers ( I'm sure it's more than that ) so that's 1/2 billion hours of business time wasted. Let's say average hourly wage is $50...that's $25,000,000,000 wasted due to 911

So yes 911 had an enormous impact.