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Author Topic: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political  (Read 512962 times)

BernardLanguillier

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #80 on: April 06, 2020, 04:47:52 pm »

Interesting stats from an interesting source, take from them what you will.

“Rush Limbaugh discussed a similar theme on his radio show today:

I have here from a source called worldometers.info or if you’re in Rio Linda, world-o-meters.info. Worldwide deaths, January 1st through March 25th of this year. Are you ready? Worldwide deaths from January 1st to March 25th, 2020, 21,000 deaths coronavirus. And that’s the low number. The lowest number of deaths, January 1st, March 25th, coronavirus. Now keep that number, 21,000 coronavirus deaths, and counting. We have to say “and counting.” Now, 113,000 deaths by seasonal flu, 228,000 deaths by malaria. Around the world, worldwide, worldwide. Not America. Worldwide.

Let me start again. I know numbers are hard to follow on radio. I do it better than most because I am patient. This is January 1st through March 25th. So basically three months.

Coronavirus, 21,000 deaths.
Seasonal flu, 113,000.
Malaria, 228,000.
Suicide, 249,000.
Traffic fatalities, 313, almost 314,000 deaths.
HIV/AIDS, 391,000 deaths.
Alcohol related deaths, 581,000.
Smoking-related deaths, 1,162,000.
Cancer deaths, 1,909,000 deaths.

Deaths attributed to starvation, 2,382,000 deaths.
And death by abortion, 9,900,000.
In the first three months of this year, January 1 through March 25th”

A few comments:
- the flu probably kills in fact more than 500,000 according to most sources
- this number results from zero measures being taken in terms of confinement
- it’s computed statistically by comparing seasonal death rates, so it’s akin to saying winter kills even if we know that a part of those are factually flu caused
- this could be reduced significantly if the rate of vaccination increased among elderly citizens even if the vaccine isn’t perfect
- the first early attempts to do similar staristical computations in northern Italy indicate that the actual casualties resulting from the corona may be 2-3 times higher than official data which is only based on people passing away in hospitals after having been tested corona positive. That would mean 30,000 people as of today in Italy alone. If you extrapolate the current curve we may unfortunately reach 40,000+ casualities from corona in Italy although strict confinement is in place for several weeks
- that’s about 0.05% of the population of Italy. Were the same rate to affect the whole planet we would get 3.5 million casualties WW even with strict measures in place
- it’s estimated that actual casualties in China may have reached around 40,000+ people also, eventough they confined strictly tens of millions of people pretty quickly considering the situation then
- some experts will do the final morbid computation, but even with the WW confinement in place it seems reasonable to assume that the corona is going to cause hundreds of thousands of casualties WW.

But the real question is how many would have died if no measures had been taken. Your guess is as good as mine (figure of speech, I don’t really think it is), but it seems reasonnable to assume millions.

Another good question is how many deaths could have been prevented had measures been taken faster, had key politicians not downplayed the pandemic and my guess is a lot fewer. It will be quite easy to simulate this after more actual data becomes available. This will allow us to estimate the death caused by every extra day of delayed action. Very interesting data for the better mgt of future pandemic. And to judge how well our politicians performed.

Now I am sure that politicians who attempted to downplay the pandemic in its early phase will do everything they can to cover their ass and try to downplay that number of actual corona casualties also... but that’s where fact checkers and a free press becomes important. Because our politicians must be held accountable for their decisions in times of crisis.

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: April 06, 2020, 04:57:41 pm by BernardLanguillier »
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Craig Lamson

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #81 on: April 06, 2020, 05:04:35 pm »

A few comments:
- the flu probably kills in fact more than 500,000 according to most sources
- this number results from zero measures being taken in terms of confinement
- it’s computed statistically by comparing seasonal death rates, so it’s akin to saying winter kills even if we know that a part of those are factually flu caused
- this could be reduced significantly if the rate of vaccination increased among elderly citizens even if the vaccine isn’t perfect
- the first early attempts to do similar staristical computations in northern Italy indicate that the actual casualties resulting from the corona may be 2-3 times higher than official data which is only based on people passing away in hospitals after having been tested corona positive. That would mean 30,000 people as of today in Italy alone. If you extrapolate the current curve we may unfortunately reach 40,000+ casualities from corona in Italy although strict confinement is in place for several weeks
- that’s about 0.05% of the population of Italy. Were the same rate to affect the whole planet we would get 3.5 million casualties WW even with strict measures in place
- it’s estimated that actual casualties in China may have reached around 40,000+ people also, eventough they confined strictly tens of millions of people pretty quickly considering the situation then
- some experts will do the final morbid computation, but even with the WW confinement in place it seems reasonable to assume that the corona is going to cause hundreds of thousands of casualties WW.

But the real question is how many would have died if no measures had been taken. Your guess is as good as mine (figure of speech, I don’t really think it is), but it seems reasonnable to assume millions.

Another good question is how many deaths could have been prevented had measures been taken faster, had key politicians not downplayed the pandemic and my guess is a lot fewer. It will be quite easy to simulate this after more actual data becomes available. This will allow us to estimate the death caused by every extra day of delayed action. Very interesting data for the better mgt of future pandemic. And to judge how well our politicians performed.

Now I am sure that politicians who attempted to downplay the pandemic in its early phase will do everything they can to cover their ass and try to downplay that number of actual corona casualties also... but that’s where fact checkers and a free press becomes important. Because our politicians must be held accountable for their decisions in times of crisis.

Cheers,
Bernard

Bye Bye Bernard.
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chez

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #82 on: April 06, 2020, 05:19:05 pm »

The title of this thread, Playpen is perfect. I think some here might need to get their diapers changed. Starting to stink a little.
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rabanito

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #83 on: April 06, 2020, 06:09:08 pm »

I agree.  Nature can make me feel very humble.  It's why I enjoy landscape photography so much.  Here's a slide of Hubbard Glacier taken 30 years ago that I just re-discovered and scanned.  When you stand before scenes like this, it opens you up to the wonder and awe of the universe and our smallness in it. 


No doubt about that. I've seen other images by you in Flickr as well
Thanks for posting  ;)
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John Camp

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #84 on: April 06, 2020, 06:13:39 pm »

Some good points, Bernard.

One thing about flu season in the US (it's different for the southern hemisphere) is that it stretches across four prime months (December through March) and is also active to a lesser degree in October and November. So if the average flu season kills around 38,000 people in the US, that'd amount to around 8,000 or so a month during the heavy months, with a few thousand more in October and November. Covid-19 has killed more than 10,000 here between March 8 and today (April 6.) So it's clear that it's killing more than the flu. Furthermore, it hasn't nearly peaked. It may be near a peak or plateau in New York, which may last for a while before starting to decline, but we have to remember than an apex, or plateau, isn't the end of the pandemic -- if you consider a bell curve, at any equal point on the curve on either side the peak, you're killing as many people on the way down as on the way up. So if today was the peak in NY, with 3,000 dead, we're likely to kill just as many on the back side of the cure -- another 3,000.

Further, in the US, the epidemic appears to be crossing the country in a kind of tide, from both coasts toward the middle, so I don't believe we're anywhere near the peak between the two coastal ranges. Unfortunately, that's the area where there's been most resistance to shutting down, and we're likely to suffer a severe toll there.

The current best guess (from U. of Washington) is a death toll in the high 80s if we continue the shutdown through August 1. I'm already starting to see cracks in the shutdown; I suspect Trump will get his wish and we'll try to open in May and will get another large wave in July and August, and then we'll close again, and then he'll try to open again before the election, and that will start another wave. Unlike the flu, the scary thing about this virus is that you can't really protect yourself -- I get a flu vaccine every September, and haven't had the flu since sometime in the 90s. About 50% of Americans do get flu vaccine, so there is some level of herd immunity, which we won't have with Covid-19. It'll just keep coming in waves. One thing that could stop an opening is the potential for a terrible death toll in Florida, Georgia, Alabama and Mississippi, all of which resisted the shutdown, and are now suffering for it. That's the heart of Trump country, and if they start coming apart, then we might push the shutdown into late summer. Trump's numbers are already starting to fall in Florida, now his home state, so maybe the chickens are coming home to roost.


 
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JoeKitchen

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #85 on: April 06, 2020, 06:22:21 pm »

A few comments:
- the flu probably kills in fact more than 500,000 according to most sources
- this number results from zero measures being taken in terms of confinement
- it’s computed statistically by comparing seasonal death rates, so it’s akin to saying winter kills even if we know that a part of those are factually flu caused
- this could be reduced significantly if the rate of vaccination increased among elderly citizens even if the vaccine isn’t perfect
- the first early attempts to do similar staristical computations in northern Italy indicate that the actual casualties resulting from the corona may be 2-3 times higher than official data which is only based on people passing away in hospitals after having been tested corona positive. That would mean 30,000 people as of today in Italy alone. If you extrapolate the current curve we may unfortunately reach 40,000+ casualities from corona in Italy although strict confinement is in place for several weeks
- that’s about 0.05% of the population of Italy. Were the same rate to affect the whole planet we would get 3.5 million casualties WW even with strict measures in place
- it’s estimated that actual casualties in China may have reached around 40,000+ people also, eventough they confined strictly tens of millions of people pretty quickly considering the situation then
- some experts will do the final morbid computation, but even with the WW confinement in place it seems reasonable to assume that the corona is going to cause hundreds of thousands of casualties WW.

But the real question is how many would have died if no measures had been taken. Your guess is as good as mine (figure of speech, I don’t really think it is), but it seems reasonnable to assume millions.

Another good question is how many deaths could have been prevented had measures been taken faster, had key politicians not downplayed the pandemic and my guess is a lot fewer. It will be quite easy to simulate this after more actual data becomes available. This will allow us to estimate the death caused by every extra day of delayed action. Very interesting data for the better mgt of future pandemic. And to judge how well our politicians performed.

Now I am sure that politicians who attempted to downplay the pandemic in its early phase will do everything they can to cover their ass and try to downplay that number of actual corona casualties also... but that’s where fact checkers and a free press becomes important. Because our politicians must be held accountable for their decisions in times of crisis.

Cheers,
Bernard

So long as all of the Dems who downplayed this, like everyone single one except the governor of CT, are held just as accountable as the republicans.

Call me crazy, but I doubt this will happen though. 

Biden is already saying he would have acted sooner with the travel ban to/from China, even though he advised against it and called it racist at the time.  The press is not even challenging him on it.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #86 on: April 06, 2020, 06:24:53 pm »

Some good points, Bernard.

One thing about flu season in the US (it's different for the southern hemisphere) is that it stretches across four prime months (December through March) and is also active to a lesser degree in October and November. So if the average flu season kills around 38,000 people in the US, that'd amount to around 8,000 or so a month during the heavy months, with a few thousand more in October and November. Covid-19 has killed more than 10,000 here between March 8 and today (April 6.) So it's clear that it's killing more than the flu. Furthermore, it hasn't nearly peaked. It may be near a peak or plateau in New York, which may last for a while before starting to decline, but we have to remember than an apex, or plateau, isn't the end of the pandemic -- if you consider a bell curve, at any equal point on the curve on either side the peak, you're killing as many people on the way down as on the way up. So if today was the peak in NY, with 3,000 dead, we're likely to kill just as many on the back side of the cure -- another 3,000.

Further, in the US, the epidemic appears to be crossing the country in a kind of tide, from both coasts toward the middle, so I don't believe we're anywhere near the peak between the two coastal ranges. Unfortunately, that's the area where there's been most resistance to shutting down, and we're likely to suffer a severe toll there.

The current best guess (from U. of Washington) is a death toll in the high 80s if we continue the shutdown through August 1. I'm already starting to see cracks in the shutdown; I suspect Trump will get his wish and we'll try to open in May and will get another large wave in July and August, and then we'll close again, and then he'll try to open again before the election, and that will start another wave. Unlike the flu, the scary thing about this virus is that you can't really protect yourself -- I get a flu vaccine every September, and haven't had the flu since sometime in the 90s. About 50% of Americans do get flu vaccine, so there is some level of herd immunity, which we won't have with Covid-19. It'll just keep coming in waves. One thing that could stop an opening is the potential for a terrible death toll in Florida, Georgia, Alabama and Mississippi, all of which resisted the shutdown, and are now suffering for it. That's the heart of Trump country, and if they start coming apart, then we might push the shutdown into late summer. Trump's numbers are already starting to fall in Florida, now his home state, so maybe the chickens are coming home to roost.

Hi John,

Indeed. Good to hear that the flu vaccination rate is 50% in the US, that’s pretty remarkable. I have to confess I had my doubts about its effectiveness but I am changing my mind on this.

I just hope they get lucky in those States that resisted but I am afraid your predictions are probably accurate. :-(

Regards,
Bernard

BernardLanguillier

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #87 on: April 06, 2020, 06:30:54 pm »

So long as all of the Dems who downplayed this, like everyone single one except the governor of CT, are held just as accountable as the republicans.

Call me crazy, but I doubt this will happen though. 

Biden is already saying he would have acted sooner with the travel ban to/from China, even though he advised against it and called it racist at the time.  The press is not even challenging him on it.

I am not looking at this as a political topic, you are.

All the politicians in office who downplayed the pandemic after clear data became available are responsible. Democrats or Republicans. I don’t care. The travel ban from China was a sensible measure and Trump must be praised for having taken it.

But there is one key difference btwn Democrats and Republicans, the President is Republican. He deserves special attention because he is the President. Reasonable, no?

I think you would agree with me that Trump has polarized the US public like no president before him. Today being pro-Trump has replaced being American as the main identity of many Trump supporters. This means that his words and actions probably have more impact among his crowd than that of any president before him.

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: April 06, 2020, 07:09:44 pm by BernardLanguillier »
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Craig Lamson

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #88 on: April 06, 2020, 06:33:41 pm »

China Floods Facebook with Ads Blaming Trump for Chinese Virus

https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2020/04/06/china-floods-facebook-with-ads-blaming-trump-for-chinese-virus/

Any coming from Japan?
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #89 on: April 06, 2020, 07:01:28 pm »

China Floods Facebook with Ads Blaming Trump for Chinese Virus

https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2020/04/06/china-floods-facebook-with-ads-blaming-trump-for-chinese-virus/

Any coming from Japan?

I am sure you have an opinion on this.

Personally I obviously don't think that Trump has anything to do with the corona virus and if these Facebook claims were true then those responsible for these actions would have to be blamed. And I would not consider the many anti-Chinese declarations of Trump to be any justification either.

Now, considering the nature of your information sources... it remains to be proven that this is actually happening.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breitbart_News

To quote one sentence "Its journalists are widely considered to be ideologically driven, and some of its content has been called misogynistic, xenophobic, and racist by liberals and many traditional conservatives alike."

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: April 06, 2020, 07:11:42 pm by BernardLanguillier »
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JoeKitchen

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #90 on: April 06, 2020, 07:20:10 pm »

I am not looking at this as a political topic, you are.

All the politicians in office who downplayed the pandemic after clear data became available are responsible. Democrats or Republicans. I don’t care. The travel ban from China was a sensible measure and Trump must be praised for having taken it.

But there is one key difference btwn Democrats and Republicans, the President is Republican. He deserves special attention because he is the President. Reasonable, no?

I think you would agree with me that Trump has polarized the US public like no president before him. Today being pro-Trump has replaced being American as the main identity of many Trump supporters. This means that his words and actions probably have more impact among his crowd than that of any president before him.

Cheers,
Bernard

As does Joe Biden, who is running for president. 
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BobShaw

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #91 on: April 06, 2020, 07:29:06 pm »

But birth rates will go up.  :)
Ha Ha. I said that and my wife told me that was something a male would say.

Woman who have a choice won't get pregnant because they are worried about going to a doctor for checkups and pre-natal classes, going to the hospital eventually, and post natal care. So there will probably be a big drop in the birthrate at least in western countries.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #92 on: April 06, 2020, 07:30:20 pm »

As does Joe Biden, who is running for president.

If you find this relevant why not build a comprehensive list of all the public statements of Trump and Biden about the corona with clear dates?

As far as I am concerned I think that the President in office is the commander in chief fully responsible for his country.

Cheers,
Bernard

Craig Lamson

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #93 on: April 06, 2020, 07:32:36 pm »

Japan is seeing a surge in coronavirus cases after not implementing nationwide containment measures

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-cases-spike-in-japan-after-middling-containment-measures-2020-3
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Craig Lamson

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #94 on: April 06, 2020, 07:34:40 pm »

Coronavirus: Japan to declare emergency as Tokyo cases soar
6 April 2020

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-52184375
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Manoli

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #95 on: April 06, 2020, 07:37:59 pm »

Someone recently posted a link to Lachlan Bailey, son of David. The lead shot was very nice, exactly as his Dad ...

Hold on, Rob. Lachlan isn't the son of David he's Australian, came to London in early 2000's, now in NYC (?) He posts shoots of models on IG, but much prefers posting shots of his children - can so relate to that !
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chez

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #96 on: April 06, 2020, 07:41:48 pm »

If you find this relevant why not build a comprehensive list of all the public statements of Trump and Biden about the corona with clear dates?

As far as I am concerned I think that the President in office is the commander in chief fully responsible for his country.

Cheers,
Bernard

That's the biggest difference between Biden and Trump. One is running the country ( into the ground ) and the other is just a political hopeful. To equate the two is just ludicrous. Commander in Chief needs to command and not play politics when his country is under attack...which it is today more than ever in history.
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elliot_n

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #97 on: April 06, 2020, 07:46:20 pm »

Boris Johnson is in intensive care. Like Trump, he underestimated the seriousness of the situation. I hope he recovers.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #98 on: April 06, 2020, 07:47:43 pm »

That's the biggest difference between Biden and Trump. One is running the country ( into the ground ) and the other is just a political hopeful. To equate the two is just ludicrous. Commander in Chief needs to command and not play politics when his country is under attack...which it is today more than ever in history.

I couldn’t agree more.

Cheers,
Bernard

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #99 on: April 06, 2020, 07:54:57 pm »

Coronavirus: Japan to declare emergency as Tokyo cases soar
6 April 2020

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-52184375

Yes, here also measures were taken way too late by the Prime minister in office and he will need to be held accountable for it. Or at least for all the casualties that may result from the situation.

But... as of today there are still very few severe cases in Japan. The increase of contagion numbers may simply be the result of more testing, too early to say. Till date 85 persons have died from the corona in Japan although the country was the first to be exposed outside China. As I wrote before, some factor must be responsible for this incredible - but true - low rate of severe form of the disease.

I am sure you are as relieved as I am to see that the situation in Japan is still not too bad.

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: April 06, 2020, 08:08:59 pm by BernardLanguillier »
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