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Author Topic: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political  (Read 496832 times)

faberryman

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #7460 on: October 08, 2020, 10:37:28 am »

Dr. Trump on his amazing recovery:

“I would’ve done it fine with no drugs. You don’t need drugs.”

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/08/president-trump-says-hes-not-contagious-at-all-days-after-leaving-hospital-with-coronavirus-.html

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jeremyrh

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #7461 on: October 08, 2020, 12:09:40 pm »

Dr. Trump on his amazing recovery:

“I would’ve done it fine with no drugs. You don’t need drugs.”

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/08/president-trump-says-hes-not-contagious-at-all-days-after-leaving-hospital-with-coronavirus-.html

Why didn't he say so at the time, instead of flying up to the hospital like a big soft wuss ?
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faberryman

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #7462 on: October 08, 2020, 04:01:24 pm »

Why didn't he say so at the time, instead of flying up to the hospital like a big soft wuss ?

I never thought I’d say it, but Trump’s a genius. He had the doctors and nurses treating him over at Walter Reed sign NDAs. I am going to whip one up myself tonight. I have a doctors appointment tomorrow. If my wife finds out what I’m really being treated for I’m cooked.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/08/politics/trump-walter-reed-nda/index.html
« Last Edit: October 08, 2020, 04:06:52 pm by faberryman »
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PeterAit

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #7463 on: October 08, 2020, 04:14:07 pm »

Dr. Trump on his amazing recovery:

“I would’ve done it fine with no drugs. You don’t need drugs.”


Seems the experimental antibody treatment he received was developed using tissue from aborted fetuses. So much for Mr. anti-abortion.
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TechTalk

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #7464 on: October 08, 2020, 06:09:28 pm »

The New England Journal of Medicine, perhaps the most prestigious medical journal in the country, has condemned the Trump administration's handling of covid and called for him to be voted out of office. It is unheard of for them to publish editorials on politics, and it is only the 5th time in their 208 year history that an editorial has been signed by all of their editors. This folows Scientific American who for the first time in their 175 years endorsed a political candidate--Biden of course.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/07/health/nejm-editorial-political-leadership-bn/index.html

Still think Trump is doing a good job?

Excerpts from the CNN Article

In an unprecedented move, the New England Journal of Medicine on Wednesday published an editorial written by its editors condemning the Trump administration for its response to the Covid-19 pandemic -- and calling for the current leadership in the United States to be voted out of office.

"We rarely publish editorials signed by all the editors," said Dr. Eric Rubin, editor-in-chief of the medical journal and an author of the new editorial.

"The reason we've never published an editorial about elections is we're not a political journal and I don't think that we want to be a political journal -- but the issue here is around fact, not around opinion. There have been many mistakes made that were not only foolish but reckless and I think we want people to realize that there are truths here, not just opinions," Rubin said.

Excerpts from the New England Journal of Medicine Editorial

https://www.nejm.org/Editorial - Dying in a Leadership Vacuum

Covid-19 has created a crisis throughout the world. This crisis has produced a test of leadership. With no good options to combat a novel pathogen, countries were forced to make hard choices about how to respond. Here in the United States, our leaders have failed that test. They have taken a crisis and turned it into a tragedy.

The magnitude of this failure is astonishing. According to the Johns Hopkins Center for Systems Science and Engineering, the United States leads the world in Covid-19 cases and in deaths due to the disease, far exceeding the numbers in much larger countries, such as China. The death rate in this country is more than double that of Canada, exceeds that of Japan, a country with a vulnerable and elderly population, by a factor of almost 50, and even dwarfs the rates in lower-middle-income countries, such as Vietnam, by a factor of almost 2000. Covid-19 is an overwhelming challenge, and many factors contribute to its severity. But the one we can control is how we behave. And in the United States we have consistently behaved poorly.

The United States came into this crisis with enormous advantages. Along with tremendous manufacturing capacity, we have a biomedical research system that is the envy of the world. We have enormous expertise in public health, health policy, and basic biology and have consistently been able to turn that expertise into new therapies and preventive measures. And much of that national expertise resides in government institutions. Yet our leaders have largely chosen to ignore and even denigrate experts.

The response of our nation’s leaders has been consistently inadequate. The federal government has largely abandoned disease control to the states. Governors have varied in their responses, not so much by party as by competence. But whatever their competence, governors do not have the tools that Washington controls. Instead of using those tools, the federal government has undermined them. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, which was the world’s leading disease response organization, has been eviscerated and has suffered dramatic testing and policy failures. The National Institutes of Health have played a key role in vaccine development but have been excluded from much crucial government decision making. And the Food and Drug Administration has been shamefully politicized, appearing to respond to pressure from the administration rather than scientific evidence. Our current leaders have undercut trust in science and in government, causing damage that will certainly outlast them. Instead of relying on expertise, the administration has turned to uninformed “opinion leaders” and charlatans who obscure the truth and facilitate the promulgation of outright lies.

Anyone else who recklessly squandered lives and money in this way would be suffering legal consequences. Our leaders have largely claimed immunity for their actions. But this election gives us the power to render judgment. Reasonable people will certainly disagree about the many political positions taken by candidates. But truth is neither liberal nor conservative. When it comes to the response to the largest public health crisis of our time, our current political leaders have demonstrated that they are dangerously incompetent. We should not abet them and enable the deaths of thousands more Americans by allowing them to keep their jobs.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2020, 06:12:51 pm by TechTalk »
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Respice, adspice, prospice - Look to the past, the present, the future

Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #7465 on: October 08, 2020, 07:10:14 pm »

When Trump originally said that all Covid policy would be directed from Washington, all the governors objected on constitutional authority grounds given to them in each state.  So Trump demurred and told them to go ahead.  The CDC established general guidelines to follow.  But individual decisions affecting each state would be made by the governors of each state. So my Democrat ex-Governor in NYS sent sick old people back from hospitals where they were being treated for Covid to their old age home residences accounting for half the deaths in NYS due to spreading the disease.  California's Democratic Govern just ignorantly issued a request to diners to put their masks back on after each bite when eating in a restaurant after granting them the right to go eat in restaurants.  So eaters will handle masks which you're not suppose to touch after putting them on after each bite.   Also, how does that encourage belief by anyone in the efficacy of mask and policy?  The governors seems like jerks.   

If this group has a problem with governors deciding what to do, why didn't they support the president when he said a single policy would come from Washington?  So now they're blaming him for local policy decisions.  When Trump shut down travel from China last January, why didn't they criticize Biden who objected calling Trump xenophobic and other Democrats who called him a racist for shutting travel down?

It's all politics.  The science and medical profession thinks they can do better with Democrats than with Republicans, hence their political position.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2020, 07:13:58 pm by Alan Klein »
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TechTalk

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #7466 on: October 08, 2020, 07:54:14 pm »

Scientists and medical professionals will be better off when their efforts to save lives isn't politicized and their voices drowned out in an effort to conform them to Trump's preferred narrative and magical ideas of how to deal with a pandemic and win re-election... and so will Americans.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2020, 08:17:16 pm by TechTalk »
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Respice, adspice, prospice - Look to the past, the present, the future

Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #7467 on: October 08, 2020, 08:08:38 pm »

Scientists and medical professionals will be better off when their efforts to save lives isn't politicized and their voices drowned out in an effort to conform them to Trump's preferred narrative and magical ideas of how to deal with a pandemic and win reelection... and so will Americans.
That cuts both ways.  The Dems have politicized it trying to use it to go against Trump.  When Trump shut down travel from China early in the disease, in January, Biden call him xenophobic.  That was politics.  Unfortunately this is election season, and both sides are guilty of it.

Additionally, economics is a major part of the disease.  Shutting down the economies of the world affects millions of people.  Trying to find a balance between safety and economic well being is extremely difficult, maybe impossible.  Every leader is struggling with finding that balance often guessing at the best approach.  Unfortunately, the virus isn't cooperating.   

TechTalk

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #7468 on: October 08, 2020, 08:15:30 pm »

It's the scientists and medical professionals that have the virus worried, it clearly is not Trump that it fears.
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Respice, adspice, prospice - Look to the past, the present, the future

chez

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #7469 on: October 08, 2020, 08:27:18 pm »

That cuts both ways.  The Dems have politicized it trying to use it to go against Trump.  When Trump shut down travel from China early in the disease, in January, Biden call him xenophobic.  That was politics.  Unfortunately this is election season, and both sides are guilty of it.

Additionally, economics is a major part of the disease.  Shutting down the economies of the world affects millions of people.  Trying to find a balance between safety and economic well being is extremely difficult, maybe impossible.  Every leader is struggling with finding that balance often guessing at the best approach.  Unfortunately, the virus isn't cooperating.

I would think that Trump would do lousy in Vegas as his guessing has failed both in the number of people that have died from the virus and the economy is still in a shit hole...with the government needing another couple of trillion dollars just so the citizens can feed themselves.

China must be laughing as they controlled the virus and their economy is starting to tick again.
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Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #7470 on: October 08, 2020, 08:32:05 pm »

I would think that Trump would do lousy in Vegas as his guessing has failed both in the number of people that have died from the virus and the economy is still in a shit hole...with the government needing another couple of trillion dollars just so the citizens can feed themselves.

China must be laughing as they controlled the virus and their economy is starting to tick again.
The Chinese spread the disease, deliberately.  The worst mistake we made was to get them out of their Communist ways 30 years ago by helping them with free markets and Capitalism.  They used our help against us.  We should have left them poor with Mao.  The whole world is going to face major problems in the future with them, not just the US. 

chez

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #7471 on: October 08, 2020, 09:23:37 pm »

The Chinese spread the disease, deliberately.  The worst mistake we made was to get them out of their Communist ways 30 years ago by helping them with free markets and Capitalism.  They used our help against us.  We should have left them poor with Mao.  The whole world is going to face major problems in the future with them, not just the US.

Yep...China will be the big dog on the block...leaving the US with its internal issues as China steam rolls through the world. Every top dog falls as seen throughout history and Trump just accelerated this demise by many years as he alienated many traditional US supporters.
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chez

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #7472 on: October 08, 2020, 09:24:52 pm »

The Chinese spread the disease, deliberately.  The worst mistake we made was to get them out of their Communist ways 30 years ago by helping them with free markets and Capitalism.  They used our help against us.  We should have left them poor with Mao.  The whole world is going to face major problems in the future with them, not just the US.

Have any facts about the Chinese spreading the virus deliberately. You are sounding more like Trump every day...lots of talk...no facts.
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #7473 on: October 08, 2020, 09:39:40 pm »

The Chinese spread the disease, deliberately.  The worst mistake we made was to get them out of their Communist ways 30 years ago by helping them with free markets and Capitalism.  They used our help against us.  We should have left them poor with Mao.  The whole world is going to face major problems in the future with them, not just the US.

Get a grip.
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Robert

Robert Roaldi

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #7474 on: October 08, 2020, 09:49:01 pm »

I never thought I’d say it, but Trump’s a genius. He had the doctors and nurses treating him over at Walter Reed sign NDAs. I am going to whip one up myself tonight. I have a doctors appointment tomorrow. If my wife finds out what I’m really being treated for I’m cooked.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/08/politics/trump-walter-reed-nda/index.html

I'm confused by this. Those doctors and staff don't work for Trump, how can he require them to sign NDAs? I don't understand the mechanism. What were they threatened with if they refused to sign? And if it was their actual employer, the hospital, that asked them to sign, how exactly does the President have to right to ask the hospital to do that? I thought America was all about setting aside the special privileges of kings and princes. This seems odd to me.
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Robert

Robert Roaldi

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #7475 on: October 08, 2020, 10:15:35 pm »

The Chinese spread the disease, deliberately.  The worst mistake we made was to get them out of their Communist ways 30 years ago by helping them with free markets and Capitalism.  They used our help against us.  We should have left them poor with Mao.  The whole world is going to face major problems in the future with them, not just the US.

Surely you're aware that your hero does business with China, https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/24/trump-biden-china-debt-205475, as is well documented.
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Robert

Chris Kern

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #7476 on: October 08, 2020, 10:57:45 pm »

I'm confused by this. Those doctors and staff don't work for Trump, how can he require them to sign NDAs? I don't understand the mechanism. What were they threatened with if they refused to sign?

Doctors and other medical personnel in the United States are prohibited by federal law from revealing any information about a patient without the patient's express consent.

Reportedly, Trump did indeed request that those treating him during his unexplained visit to the hospital last November sign nondisclosure agreements.  These presumably would have had no effect beyond that already provided by the federal medical privacy statute, but there was nothing to prevent Trump, or any other patient, from asking for them.

According to the published report, two doctors who refused to sign the agreements were not permitted to participate in his treatment.  (Whatever it was.  A White House spokesman subsequently said the purpose of the visit was to conduct routine tests for his periodic physical exam, but given the unscheduled, sudden nature of the visit, that hardly seems plausible.)
« Last Edit: October 08, 2020, 11:10:25 pm by Chris Kern »
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John Camp

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #7477 on: October 08, 2020, 11:47:14 pm »

A White House spokesman subsequently said the purpose of the visit was to conduct routine tests for his periodic physical exam, but given the unscheduled, sudden nature of the visit, that hardly seems plausible.)

Because he was lying. In any case, "plausible" does not seem to be a word strongly linked with Donald Trump and his collection of clowns, morons, lapdogs, children and misfits. Don't even get me started on the deviants. (However, I don't want to hear a single harsh word about Kayleigh. When you have to defend Trump, clowns, morons, lapdogs, children, misfits and deviants every day of your life, you've got a really tough job and a few slip-ups are inevitable, even for an adorable young woman.)
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jeremyrh

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #7478 on: October 09, 2020, 03:20:27 am »


It's all politics.  The science and medical profession thinks they can do better with Democrats than with Republicans, hence their political position.

Of course - they are tired of having to climb over mountains of rotting corpses to get to work.
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Paulo Bizarro

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #7479 on: October 09, 2020, 04:07:50 am »

The Chinese spread the disease, deliberately.  The worst mistake we made was to get them out of their Communist ways 30 years ago by helping them with free markets and Capitalism.  They used our help against us.  We should have left them poor with Mao.  The whole world is going to face major problems in the future with them, not just the US.

Seems like you keep drinking the "blame the Chinese" kool-aid. It's stale and sad, really.
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