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Author Topic: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS  (Read 196911 times)

Alan Klein

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Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #2240 on: August 21, 2020, 01:33:27 pm »

Please knock it off. Everyone seems to understand how acquiring new knowledge works except you.
Please make up your mind.  When I complained that it's hard for the average person to know what is the right to do, I'm accused of not trusting science or experts.  Now you make excuses for science and experts not having all the answers making the same point I had been making.

Robert Roaldi

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Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #2241 on: August 21, 2020, 03:22:08 pm »

Please make up your mind.  When I complained that it's hard for the average person to know what is the right to do, I'm accused of not trusting science or experts.  Now you make excuses for science and experts not having all the answers making the same point I had been making.

You are being deliberately obtuse and argumentative. The articles we are referring to in this exchange were not about "experts" telling you anything nor recommending policy. They were not telling you to do or not do anything nor were they recommending anything to your political authorities. You chose to look at some research, probably in its early stages, that did NOT MAKE ANY RECOMMENDATIONS to you or anyone. Researchers do what they are always do, report findings that others can replicate or not. Characterizing this as another example of "experts" disagreeing is asinine. It means you don't understand what is going on. This has been told to you before numerous times. You are deliberately looking for ways to score irrelevant points.

Your original post was a troll and you complaining about me not making up my mind was another troll. This situation has arisen several times on these pages. You find some obscure piece of uncorroborated reported findings and then complain that the researchers don't know what they're doing. If you are not able to properly comprehend the content of these articles, you have no place making comments on their validity. My advice is to stop reading them and do what your medical authorities tell you to do, which has been quite consistent since the beginning, despite your repeated whining to the contrary.

If you don't believe experts, why are you on this thread.
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Alan Klein

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Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #2242 on: August 21, 2020, 03:32:25 pm »

You are being deliberately obtuse and argumentative. The articles we are referring to in this exchange were not about "experts" telling you anything nor recommending policy. They were not telling you to do or not do anything nor were they recommending anything to your political authorities. You chose to look at some research, probably in its early stages, that did NOT MAKE ANY RECOMMENDATIONS to you or anyone. Researchers do what they are always do, report findings that others can replicate or not. Characterizing this as another example of "experts" disagreeing is asinine. It means you don't understand what is going on. This has been told to you before numerous times. You are deliberately looking for ways to score irrelevant points.

Your original post was a troll and you complaining about me not making up my mind was another troll. This situation has arisen several times on these pages. You find some obscure piece of uncorroborated reported findings and then complain that the researchers don't know what they're doing. If you are not able to properly comprehend the content of these articles, you have no place making comments on their validity. My advice is to stop reading them and do what your medical authorities tell you to do, which has been quite consistent since the beginning, despite your repeated whining to the contrary.

If you don't believe experts, why are you on this thread.
You have your opinion and I have mine.  I'm sorry they don't agree. Have a nice day.

JoeKitchen

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Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #2243 on: August 21, 2020, 04:22:03 pm »

You are being deliberately obtuse and argumentative. The articles we are referring to in this exchange were not about "experts" telling you anything nor recommending policy. They were not telling you to do or not do anything nor were they recommending anything to your political authorities. You chose to look at some research, probably in its early stages, that did NOT MAKE ANY RECOMMENDATIONS to you or anyone. Researchers do what they are always do, report findings that others can replicate or not. Characterizing this as another example of "experts" disagreeing is asinine. It means you don't understand what is going on. This has been told to you before numerous times. You are deliberately looking for ways to score irrelevant points.

Your original post was a troll and you complaining about me not making up my mind was another troll. This situation has arisen several times on these pages. You find some obscure piece of uncorroborated reported findings and then complain that the researchers don't know what they're doing. If you are not able to properly comprehend the content of these articles, you have no place making comments on their validity. My advice is to stop reading them and do what your medical authorities tell you to do, which has been quite consistent since the beginning, despite your repeated whining to the contrary.

If you don't believe experts, why are you on this thread.

The problem with the experts is, their message is being manipulated by the media or just not even reported on. 

From a recent study in Japan, it is 18.7 times more difficult to catch this outside.  I was in a fairly dense neighborhood this morning, shooting for soundstage backdrops, outside.  Specifically I was in Passyunk Sq., which is similar to Brooklyn.  Nearly everyone was wearing a mask, except me.  I got plenty of side eyes, but I'm not wearing a mask outside, full stop.  I don't care if it makes people feel better, I care about what is scientifically right, and wearing outside is not.  It is way too hard to either catch it or spread it outside, but the media has everyone in a hair-spin over this that no one is getting the real scientific data. 

A poll came out that asked people what percentage of those whom died were under 45 and about 50% said half of those who died are under 45.  Close to 60% of Dems think this, when the actual number os 2.7%.  53% of C-19 deaths were from nursing home patients.  The party of "science" is really showing their colors I guess. 

If you're under 10, the data shows you are more likely to be struck by lightning then die of C-19, yet Dems are insisting schools remain closed and that if we open them we are sacrificing our children.  No under 24 has died in PA from C-19 as of last week when I looked.

Sorry, but the data is showing this whole thing was a waste.  We should be protecting our elderly and letting everyone get back to living. 
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HSakols

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Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #2244 on: August 21, 2020, 05:48:43 pm »

Quote
Sorry, but the data is showing this whole thing was a waste.  We should be protecting our elderly and letting everyone get back to living.

But how does Joe really know?
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JoeKitchen

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Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #2245 on: August 21, 2020, 07:28:41 pm »

But how does Joe really know?

You again, lol.  How's the dance off coming along?  Guarantee I'll lose, big time! 

But any way, because I look at the data, and all of the data shows exactly what I posted.  You can have you're own opinions, but not facts Hugh.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2020, 07:35:45 pm by JoeKitchen »
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Peter McLennan

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Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #2246 on: August 21, 2020, 09:13:13 pm »

The problem with the experts is, their message is being manipulated by the media or just not even reported on. 

Sigh. It's always the media.  Maybe we should just ignore them all and restrict our information gathering to Karen on the Internet.

Quote
If you're under 10, the data shows you are more likely to be struck by lightning then die of C-19, yet Dems are insisting schools remain closed and that if we open them we are sacrificing our children.

What about the teachers?  Should we even care about them?

.
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TechTalk

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Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #2247 on: August 21, 2020, 09:17:54 pm »

Sigh. It's always the media.

And the hysteria, you can't forget the hysteria.
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LesPalenik

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Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #2248 on: August 21, 2020, 10:11:11 pm »

You again, lol.  How's the dance off coming along?  Guarantee I'll lose, big time! 

But any way, because I look at the data, and all of the data shows exactly what I posted.  You can have you're own opinions, but not facts Hugh.

Speaking about the dance:
In Pompano Beach, the social dance club re-opened their door to dancing nights. The dancers are required to wear the masks.
The Naples dance club re-opened their doors as well, and they are dancing without masks.
In Ontario, you can dance only in your own home. Or in your private dance-bubble. Without mask and without a jacket. And without other encumbrances. 
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JoeKitchen

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Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #2249 on: August 21, 2020, 10:22:16 pm »

Speaking about the dance:
In Pompano Beach, the social dance club re-opened their door to dancing nights. The dancers are required to wear the masks.
The Naples dance club re-opened their doors as well, and they are dancing without masks.
In Ontario, you can dance only in your own home. Or in your private dance-bubble. Without mask and without a jacket. And without other encumbrances.

Mask or no mask, it would not matter with me.  I’m that bad!
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LesPalenik

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Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #2250 on: August 21, 2020, 10:33:21 pm »

With the mask, you don't have to reveal your identity, you can dance incognito.
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Alan Klein

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Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #2251 on: August 21, 2020, 11:05:14 pm »

Speaking about the dance:
In Pompano Beach, the social dance club re-opened their door to dancing nights. The dancers are required to wear the masks.
The Naples dance club re-opened their doors as well, and they are dancing without masks.
In Ontario, you can dance only in your own home. Or in your private dance-bubble. Without mask and without a jacket. And without other encumbrances. 
It's cooler that way.  8)

LesPalenik

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Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #2252 on: August 22, 2020, 12:37:05 am »

Much cooler. Although some like it hot.
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jeremyrh

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Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #2253 on: August 22, 2020, 05:47:28 am »



Sorry, but the data is showing this whole thing was a waste.  We should be protecting our elderly and letting everyone get back to living.

Recent increases in infections in e.g. France are largely among younger people, driven by people who are getting back to living.
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PeterAit

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Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #2254 on: August 22, 2020, 12:14:10 pm »

You have your opinion and I have mine.  I'm sorry they don't agree. Have a nice day.

Science does not care about your opinion or what you believe. That is the whole point of science.
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DP

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Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #2255 on: August 22, 2020, 01:17:27 pm »

If you're under 10, the data shows you are more likely to be struck by lightning then die of C-19, yet Dems are insisting schools remain closed and that if we open them we are sacrificing our children. 
so if a kid gets infected in school, brings C19 home and some of parents/grandparents die that's OK ? for as long as the kid lives ...
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JoeKitchen

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Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #2256 on: August 22, 2020, 01:41:29 pm »

Recent increases in infections in e.g. France are largely among younger people, driven by people who are getting back to living.

So? 

Infection fatality rate for those under 45 is the same as the flu with that group only representing 2.7% of deaths. Not a single person under 24 has died from this in my state.  It really is a big nothing burger for the vast majority of the population. 

Protect the old; everyone else should just get back on with  life. 
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JoeKitchen

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Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #2257 on: August 22, 2020, 01:42:41 pm »

Science does not care about your opinion or what you believe. That is the whole point of science.

Tell that to the "critical race theorists" who recently said our concept of light needs to change so as to be more inclusive. 
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jeremyrh

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Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #2258 on: August 22, 2020, 02:15:36 pm »


Protect the old; everyone else should just get back on with  life.

You don't see that protecting the old might involve other people moderating their behaviour?  Or have the over 45's to hide away while you can continue to act as you please?
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #2259 on: August 22, 2020, 02:34:40 pm »

The problem with the experts is, their message is being manipulated by the media or just not even reported on.
Maybe it's getting manipulated on Fox News with all the reports of essance of oleander treatment but I see no signs of it in any of the mainstream media that I read and report from every day.  I've been at this since mid-March and would venture to say that without a doubt I know more about COVID-19 than you do.

Quote
From a recent study in Japan, it is 18.7 times more difficult to catch this outside.  I was in a fairly dense neighborhood this morning, shooting for soundstage backdrops, outside.  Specifically I was in Passyunk Sq., which is similar to Brooklyn.  Nearly everyone was wearing a mask, except me.  I got plenty of side eyes, but I'm not wearing a mask outside, full stop.  I don't care if it makes people feel better, I care about what is scientifically right, and wearing outside is not.  It is way too hard to either catch it or spread it outside, but the media has everyone in a hair-spin over this that no one is getting the real scientific data.
risk of contracting COVID-19 is based on proximity and density.  If you are on a crowded street outside your risk is not zero.  If everyone is wearing masks as they should in dense population situations the risk goes way down.

Quote
A poll came out that asked people what percentage of those whom died were under 45 and about 50% said half of those who died are under 45.  Close to 60% of Dems think this, when the actual number os 2.7%.  53% of C-19 deaths were from nursing home patients.  The party of "science" is really showing their colors I guess. 
I would advise you to pick up a copy of Carl Bergstrom and Jevin West's new book "Calling Bullshit: the Art of Skepticism in a Data-Driven World."  You will quickly know why the above statement you made is misleading and probably false.

Quote
If you're under 10, the data shows you are more likely to be struck by lightning then die of C-19, yet Dems are insisting schools remain closed and that if we open them we are sacrificing our children.  No under 24 has died in PA from C-19 as of last week when I looked.
Children under 10 have died.  they have also suffered from multiinflammatory syndrome at a much greater rate than the remainder of the population.  Nobody is insisting schools remain closed, the problem is that few schools have followed scientific developed protocols by the American Academy of Pediatrics, the National Academy of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine as well as other groups.  A number of epidemiologists have argued that schools can open safely if these conditions are met.  You also need to realize that while those under 21 are at a much lower risk of severe COVID-19 they are also good vectors of transmission, possibly infecting their teachers, school staff, parents, grandparents and other adults.  Schools in some very conservative states opened and then quickly closed when infections picked up.

Quote
Sorry, but the data is showing this whole thing was a waste.  We should be protecting our elderly and letting everyone get back to living.
If you spent some time reading you might be better informed.  You can always read back issues of my daily newsletter and get the unvarnished truth:  https://agoldhammer.com/covid_19/   You would quickly see that I have never been one to call for total school shutdowns.
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