COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS

[John Camp]

This is actually an evidence that the city size or number of its visitors is not the most important factor. Montreal is smaller than Toronto, it had the fewest visitors out of the three cities, but the highest infection count. As pointed out in my previous post, the large infection count is attributed to many Quebec travelers who brought the virus back home from their vacation.

I have a boat in a Fort Lauderdale marina, adjacent to a RV park. One long stretch of the park, on both sides of the road, is dominated by RVs from Quebec, and French is the common language. All those people left Lauderdale after the spring break parties. Relevant? Who knows?

[Manoli]

It sounds very impressive. Were there any subsequent studies and are any doctors or hospitals using this method to kill the bacteria?

Well PG is the ingredient that's pervasive in many products and it's anti-bacterial. The FDA classifies PG as a food and drug additive that is “generally recognized as safe”. It is clear, colourless, and has no taste or odour -  essentially a synthetic liquid that absorbs water. It is still widely used today and a principal ingredient of asthma inhalers, albuterol treatments and a multitude of air purification systems (aircraft, hospitals, hotels, offices etc)

There is evidence, empirical & anecdotal, that it not only assists asthma sufferers with a consequential reduction in the use of inhalers but provides an effective degree of protection against infections, flu included.

Scientific proven studies ? None that I know of. Yet.

[LesPalenik]

I have a boat in a Fort Lauderdale marina, adjacent to a RV park. One long stretch of the park, on both sides of the road, is dominated by RVs from Quebec, and French is the common language. All those people left Lauderdale after the spring break parties. Relevant? Who knows?

Very likely, it was one of the factors in the infection spread in Quebec. Every year, several hundred thousands of Québécois overwinter in Southern Florida.

On a slightly different subject, today it was reported that a week ago a family returning to Quebec, transported a dead body all the way from Florida. The death was caused not by the coronavirus, but by a heart attack.

Canadian border agents discovered that a family had driven from Florida to Quebec with their deceased family member's body in the backseat of their car. The family cited the high cost of U.S. health care, plus the cost of shipping the body back to Canada, as the reason they didn't stop at a hospital, CTV News reported. Fernand Drapeau, 87, was with his son and wife on his way back home to Quebec from Florida when he suffered a heart attack and died, CTV News said. His family decided to keep driving home to Canada.

https://www.abc12.com/content/news/508325942.html 

[chez]

I have a boat in a Fort Lauderdale marina, adjacent to a RV park. One long stretch of the park, on both sides of the road, is dominated by RVs from Quebec, and French is the common language. All those people left Lauderdale after the spring break parties. Relevant? Who knows?

That's exactly the difference between BC and Quebec / Ontario. BC locked down prior to spring break and ordered incoming people to BC to self isolate for 14 days. Quebec and Ontario waited until after spring break with a bunch coming into the provinces from abroad without any isolation.

That just shows you how important quick action is to grabbing hold of this virus. Days count...and when we see weeks wasted without any action like in the US...well you can see what's happening.

[Alan Klein]

That's exactly the difference between BC and Quebec / Ontario. BC locked down prior to spring break and ordered incoming people to BC to self isolate for 14 days. Quebec and Ontario waited until after spring break with a bunch coming into the provinces from abroad without any isolation.

That just shows you how important quick action is to grabbing hold of this virus. Days count...and when we see weeks wasted without any action like in the US...well you can see what's happening.

Monday morning quarterbacking.  We'll know better next time. 

[Robert Roaldi]

Monday morning quarterbacking.  We'll know better next time.

Stop repeating that nonsense. Everybody who knows anything about this always knew and they told anyone who'd listen. Some listened, some didn't.

[Alan Klein]

Well PG is the ingredient that's pervasive in many products and it's anti-bacterial. The FDA classifies PG as a food and drug additive that is “generally recognized as safe”. It is clear, colourless, and has no taste or odour -  essentially a synthetic liquid that absorbs water. It is still widely used today and a principal ingredient of asthma inhalers, albuterol treatments and a multitude of air purification systems (aircraft, hospitals, hotels, offices etc)

There is evidence, empirical & anecdotal, that it not only assists asthma sufferers with a consequential reduction in the use of inhalers but provides an effective degree of protection against infections, flu included.

Scientific proven studies ? None that I know of. Yet.

You ought to email the NIH with you thoughts about this.  Maybe they could see if it would help with Covid-19.
Email who you think is appropriate.
https://www.niaid.nih.gov/about/director-contacts

[Alan Klein]

Stop repeating that nonsense. Everybody who knows anything about this always knew and they told anyone who'd listen. Some listened, some didn't.

I can't respond.  Politics you know.

[LesPalenik]

Monday morning quarterbacking.  We'll know better next time.

Actually, some people were raising the alarm already two months ago, while others were minimizing it. For many, there won't be a next time.
Today's death count: 800 in NY, 2000 in USA, 7000+ worldwide

[Jeremy Roussak]

Well PG is the ingredient that's pervasive in many products and it's anti-bacterial. The FDA classifies PG as a food and drug additive that is “generally recognized as safe”. It is clear, colourless, and has no taste or odour -  essentially a synthetic liquid that absorbs water. It is still widely used today and a principal ingredient of asthma inhalers, albuterol treatments and a multitude of air purification systems (aircraft, hospitals, hotels, offices etc)

There is evidence, empirical & anecdotal, that it not only assists asthma sufferers with a consequential reduction in the use of inhalers but provides an effective degree of protection against infections, flu included.

Scientific proven studies ? None that I know of. Yet.

It is less than immediately obvious that an anti-bacterial agent can provide even the slightest protection against a virus, whether influenza or covid-19.

Jeremy

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Actually, some people were raising the alarm already two months ago, while others were minimizing it...

There is always someone somewhere, saying something. And then there is always someone saying something different. Someone is always right in retrospect.

[Paulo Bizarro]

Where does the broke Portugal treasury get the money to pay out-of-work people while it's waiting for the EU money?  It can't print it like America. Where does the EU get the money from? Are the rich nations in the EU going to bail everyone out again?  What will this do to the EU?  Will they follow GB a la Brexit? Is anyone in Europe thinking this through?

1. In 2019 Portugal had a superavit, so we are not broke. This cushion is coming in very useful now.

2. EU finance ministers are meeting since yesterday to discuss a total package of 500 billion euros, money that countries can borrow at very low interest, coming from EBI, ECB, and other institutions. The risk is that countries that already have 120% of debt don't want to raise it even more - Italy, Spain, Portugal, even France. They want "coronabonds".

3. As I said before, the EU works and decides at a slower pace, but a decision will come in the next few weeks.

4. In the last 2008 crisis, Portugalwent bankrupt and in 2011 we had to call the IMF and EU to borrow money. A total of 75 billion euros. We paid it already. This time around, the number is going to be much higher. The difference now is that all countries are hit equally by the pandemics, and it is no ones fault.

[Paulo Bizarro]

There is always someone somewhere, saying something. And then there is always someone saying something different. Someone is always right in retrospect.

I remember seeing a chinese doctor on the telly around mid-Feb, when china was being hit severely, warning their italian counterparts to take this virus seriously. They did not, and we know the consequences. More than 50% of deaths in Italy are in the Bergamo region, where the infection can now be traced back to the celebrations of Atalanta's victory in the champions League against Athletic Madrid - that match was actually played in Milan (due to Atalanta's stadium lack of conditions) - another high infection place. Milan also suffered due to Feb they have a lot of fashion events.

Portugal is most affected in the northern part, especially around Porto. Why? It is an industrial area for Portuguese fashion brands, many people go to Milan to attend, you guessed it, fashion shows. They returned to Portugal infected. By mid-March in Portugal, there were about 12 contagion chains that could be traced to Italy, Spain, and France, which is hardly surprising.

I also remember an Italian doctor on the telly, end March, warning doctors from Spain and France not to treat this as a "flu".

So yes, everybody will have something to say, that is why I only listen to doctors, nurses, hralth care specialists, and scientists from the area. It is especially important to learn from others that were hit previously, as the virus took some time to spread and gave for instance Europe at least 1 month warning, and North America 2 months.

[Manoli]

It is less than immediately obvious that an anti-bacterial agent can provide even the slightest protection against a virus, whether influenza or covid-19.

See my earlier post #458.

[Manoli]

Extensive study in The Lancet

Epidemiological and clinical characteristics of patients with COVID-19 have been reported but risk factors for mortality and a detailed clinical course of illness, including viral shedding, have not been well described.

We included 171 patients with complete data for all variables (53 non-survivors and 118 survivors) ... For survivors, the median duration of viral shedding was 20·0 days from illness onset ... The shortest observed duration of viral shedding among survivors was 8 days, whereas the longest was 37 days. Among 29 patients who received lopinavir/ritonavir and were discharged, the median time from illness onset to initiation of antiviral treatment was 14·0 days and the median duration of viral shedding was 22·0 days.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30566-3/fulltext

[Robert Roaldi]

A question about masks. The impression I've had is that they are disposable, that they can't be dis-infected. I sort of understand why immersion in dis-infecting liquids could affect the integrity of the fabric, but is there a reason why UV dis-infection wouldn't work?

[Robert Roaldi]

In response to the idea what no one knew what to do at the onset of the contagion, I listened to a report about the Spanish Flu epidemic yesterday (recent podcast episode of NPR's Human Brain https://www.npr.org/2020/03/23/820066211/an-unfinished-lesson-what-the-1918-flu-tells-us-about-human-nature) and they did social distancing in 1918-1919.

[Manoli]

Another on-line resource: The Lancet
https://www.thelancet.com/coronavirus

[armand]

There is always someone somewhere, saying something. And then there is always someone saying something different. Someone is always right in retrospect.

That’s why you should look for advice to people who are trained to deal with this, and select those people based on competency and not yes/no status.

I have no inside info and yet I knew it will spread after they announced the first case in US without a known sick contact/ travel, that means it was already out there in the community for a while. I’m sure the right people knew this way sooner than I did. And this was in late February.

[degrub]

A question about masks. The impression I've had is that they are disposable, that they can't be dis-infected. I sort of understand why immersion in dis-infecting liquids could affect the integrity of the fabric, but is there a reason why UV dis-infection wouldn't work?

It is a matter of the UV reaching the location of the virus with enough intensity and duration. On cloth or fabric that would be very difficult. It can work for planar surfaces like tools, glasses, AC evaporators, etc.