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Author Topic: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS  (Read 86386 times)

armand

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Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #280 on: April 03, 2020, 02:13:57 pm »

That doesn't entirely fit with the hand to eyes/nose/mouth infection risk. I'm not saying it's incorect, just that from what I'm hearing the risk is equally spread.
 


When you cough, those droplets can go directly on somebody's face or to different surfaces.
It can live on those surfaces for various amounts of time, hours to days. If you touch those surfaces (eg. knobs) with your hands and then touch your face (mouth, nose, eyes) you risk getting the virus that way.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2020, 02:22:41 pm by armand »
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Manoli

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Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #281 on: April 03, 2020, 02:32:53 pm »

Armand, thanks!
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #282 on: April 03, 2020, 02:46:49 pm »

I meant restaurant workers who are preparing takeout food and delivering it to you through a narrow opening. In my town, restaurants are closed. Not in Sweden though.

Ok, gotcha.
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #283 on: April 03, 2020, 03:30:47 pm »

Looks like the data is going to be examined from every angle, and should be. Is there anyone looking at the impact of travel? People are arguing about the exact date that travel to China was stopped, but given how ubiquitous travel is everywhere would it have had much impact to do it sooner? Canada stopped/controlled travel to China, I forget on which date, but about a million Canadians returned from abroad in the last few weeks. Isn't that kind of a wash from the point of view of risk?

It seems kind of impossible to isolate any one region of the globe after the fact, although some travel slowdown might aid in curve flattening. That is to say, it's just one more facet not necessarily a critical one. Is this sensible or am I missing something?
the big outbreak in Boston started at a meeting of world-wide representatives at a biopharma company, Biogen.  There were reps from Italy who brought the disease here and spread it.  there are other stories as well.
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #284 on: April 03, 2020, 03:33:38 pm »

About half of the people I encountered in restaurants and shops wear their masks around their neck.
I don't wear one when I go out.  I figure I'm protected because everyone else is wearing them.  I go to the store at 0700 when it opens for an hour for those >60 years.  There was a guy who was in line and was taking his mask on and off.  The mask also doesn't protect you from virus getting into your eyes or on non-mask parts of your face which you then touch when you get home!!
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LesPalenik

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Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #285 on: April 03, 2020, 08:30:54 pm »

here is a well-made video about the benefits of making and using face masks. 3'30" in length. Made in a country with a low C19 infection and death count.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZtEX2-n2Hc
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Chris Kern

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Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #286 on: April 03, 2020, 10:09:53 pm »

here is a well-made video about the benefits of making and using face masks. . . . Made in a country with a low C19 infection and death count.

Similarly Taiwan, where anyone leaving home is required to wear a face mask.  Currently 348 confirmed cases and five deaths attributed to COVID-19 on the island, which has a population of just under 24 million.  Taiwan is not restricting movement to the extent of most countries, but my wife's brother, who lives in Taipei, told her this evening that the body temperature of anyone entering a business, government, or other public building is checked.  (Singapore has essentially identical rules.)

The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is now, somewhat belatedly, also recommending their use:

Quote
We now know from recent studies that a significant portion of individuals with coronavirus lack symptoms (“asymptomatic”) and that even those who eventually develop symptoms (“pre-symptomatic”) can transmit the virus to others before showing symptoms.  This means that the virus can spread between people interacting in close proximity—for example, speaking, coughing, or sneezing—even if those people are not exhibiting symptoms.  In light of this new evidence, CDC recommends wearing cloth face coverings in public settings where other social distancing measures are difficult to maintain (e.g., grocery stores and pharmacies) especially in areas of significant community-based transmission.

In addition to preventing the spread of droplets from coughs or sneezes, a mask also reduces the risk that the wearer will unknowingly touch his or her face with a hand that has been in contact with a surface containing virus-laden droplets.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2020, 10:19:46 pm by Chris Kern »
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Alan Klein

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Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #287 on: April 03, 2020, 10:22:05 pm »

About half of the people I encountered in restaurants and shops wear their masks around their neck.
How do you eat if you're wearing the mask around your mouth?  Not only won't the germs get in.  Neither will the Big Mac. :)

Alan Klein

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Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #288 on: April 03, 2020, 10:31:46 pm »

I don't wear one when I go out.  I figure I'm protected because everyone else is wearing them.  I go to the store at 0700 when it opens for an hour for those >60 years.  There was a guy who was in line and was taking his mask on and off.  The mask also doesn't protect you from virus getting into your eyes or on non-mask parts of your face which you then touch when you get home!!
My wife and I refuse to go into a store any longer, mask or no mask.  Curbside pickup using phone orders only. I just got in 50 surgical type masks.  I think So Korea made them.  Does not seem to have any credentials.  But I suppose it's better then nothing.  I ordered some KN-95 and more surgical type masks directly from China.  I figure they must know what they're doing if their statistics are real, an unlikely situation.  I hope I get them soon.   

Alan Klein

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Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #289 on: April 03, 2020, 10:38:36 pm »

I think the CDC is opposed to regular people using them is to protect supplies for emergency and medical workers.  If you shop on Amazon, they have a note to that effect.

LesPalenik

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Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #290 on: April 03, 2020, 11:54:17 pm »

How do you eat if you're wearing the mask around your mouth?  Not only won't the germs get in.  Neither will the Big Mac. :)

You marinade it in a kosher pickle brine for 24 hours, then put thinly sliced Harvatti cheese and salsa on it.
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Alan Klein

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Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #291 on: April 04, 2020, 12:00:09 am »

You marinade it in a kosher pickle brine for 24 hours, then put thinly sliced Harvatti cheese and salsa on it.
That would kill the virus germs for sure.  I think you should patent it.  It would make a great vaccine as well.

kamma1

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Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #292 on: April 04, 2020, 02:18:29 am »

I don't wear one when I go out.  I figure I'm protected because everyone else is wearing them. 

And you don't feel you should protect other people from you, in case you're carrying it?

Rob C

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Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #293 on: April 04, 2020, 04:50:42 am »

About half of the people I encountered in restaurants and shops wear their masks around their neck.

Jesus, your restaurants are still open? And you go to them?

P.S.

Thanks for the explanaton later on in the thread.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2020, 04:56:15 am by Rob C »
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Rob C

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Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #294 on: April 04, 2020, 04:57:34 am »

And you don't feel you should protect other people from you, in case you're carrying it?

Yes, I too found that a surprising statement/attitude from somebody in the medic business.

Rob
« Last Edit: April 04, 2020, 06:52:36 am by Rob C »
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #295 on: April 04, 2020, 05:05:43 am »

My wife and I refuse to go into a store any longer, mask or no mask.  Curbside pickup using phone orders only. I just got in 50 surgical type masks.  I think So Korea made them.  Does not seem to have any credentials.  But I suppose it's better then nothing.  I ordered some KN-95 and more surgical type masks directly from China.  I figure they must know what they're doing if their statistics are real, an unlikely situation.  I hope I get them soon.

While I'm sceptical about the benefits of wearing masks in non-medical environments (keeping distance in public space and washing hands works almost as well), there are some things that can be done to improve surgical type masks.

Fix the mask:
https://www.fixthemask.com/

Masks need to be discarded regularly or they will become a larger source of contamination than not wearing them. I think that at this moment in time into the process, it's better to make sure that medical professionals have access to these masks.
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #296 on: April 04, 2020, 05:27:39 am »

And you don't feel you should protect other people from you, in case you're carrying it?

Just keep distance (5-6 feet). The droplets do not travel much farther than that before settling on surfaces, so you won't contaminate others, and others can't contaminate you. BTW one should stay out of spaces with others as much as possible anyway, limit the number of shopping trips and wash hands (before and after).
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== If you do what you did, you'll get what you got. ==

Rob C

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Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #297 on: April 04, 2020, 06:55:20 am »

Just keep distance (5-6 feet). The droplets do not travel much farther than that before settling on surfaces, so you won't contaminate others, and others can't contaminate you. BTW one should stay out of spaces with others as much as possible anyway, limit the number of shopping trips and wash hands (before and after).

After shopping, I extend that regime to include giving the face a good wash. After all, it has a greater surface than just the exposed eyes and ears!

Rob

Robert Roaldi

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Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #298 on: April 04, 2020, 06:57:10 am »

A multinational consortium shows promising in vitro trial https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-04-trial-drug-significantly-block-early.html. Early tests show the drug stops early stage cell penetration. I know nothing other than that, a friend found this.
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: COVID-19 | science, damage limitation, NO POLITICS
« Reply #299 on: April 04, 2020, 07:01:23 am »

From Nature, an article about airborne transmission and the efficacy of masks https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0843-2.
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