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Author Topic: After The Acquittal  (Read 14236 times)

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: After The Acquital
« Reply #40 on: February 10, 2020, 11:59:24 am »

Huh, are you of the mistaken opinion that hearing Trump say what he did is hearsay, or something else?

A transcript of the call has been released, so it is irrelevant what the guy thought he heard.

Frans Waterlander

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Re: After The Acquital
« Reply #41 on: February 10, 2020, 12:27:03 pm »

The next person to make hyperbolic Nazi comparisons in this or any other political thread will be banned.

Jeremy

Thanks, Jeremy!!!
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Rob C

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Re: After The Acquital
« Reply #42 on: February 10, 2020, 01:01:10 pm »

+1

P.S. I hope my post wasn’t understood as a request to shut down the thread or political debates, or to ban certain members. It was rather an appeal to our forum friends to refrain from such over-the-top rhetoric.

Fankly, I thought you were joking.

How disappointing, then, to discover you were serious. Try green tea: I believe it calms people down.

Rob

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: After The Acquital
« Reply #43 on: February 10, 2020, 01:11:17 pm »

A transcript of the call has been released, so it is irrelevant what the guy thought he heard.

That's something different from what you said. You said he fabricated evidence, that "there was no evidence... not even what he heard or saw, but just his opinion".
BTW, from what I've heard, the transcript that was released was not the full transcript. The witness heard the entire call as it took place.

Another thing that seems to be misunderstood, not necessarily by you, is what an 'acquittal' actually means.

According to the Cornell Law school's website (emphasis in the quoted text is mine):
https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/acquittal
Quote
Acquittal

Definition
At the end of a criminal trial, a finding by a judge or jury that a defendant is not guilty. An acquittal signifies that a prosecutor failed to prove his or her case beyond a reasonable doubt, not that a defendant is innocent. Thus, a person may be acquitted of a crime but found civilly liable in a civil case regarding that same crime, e.g. O.J. Simpson, because civil cases have a lower burden of proof than criminal cases.

I repeat, "not that a defendant is innocent."

It's the failure of the Senate to prove Donald J. Trump innocent.
They didn't, because they couldn't, and they just didn't want to convict him, thus an acquittal.
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faberryman

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Re: After The Acquital
« Reply #44 on: February 10, 2020, 01:12:00 pm »

A transcript of the call has been released, so it is irrelevant what the guy thought he heard.
I believe it was a partial summary and not a transcript.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: After The Acquital
« Reply #45 on: February 10, 2020, 01:15:20 pm »

I believe it was a partial summary and not a transcript.

Who cares what you believe?

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: After The Acquital
« Reply #46 on: February 10, 2020, 01:18:07 pm »

Who cares what you believe?

You seemed to believe it was the full transcript. Nobody cares what you believe. The truth is known.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: After The Acquital
« Reply #47 on: February 10, 2020, 01:25:27 pm »

That's something different from what you said. You said he fabricated evidence...

How you've come to that conclusion is beyond me!? This is what I said:

Nothing to fabricate, as there was no evidence...

Quote
... It's the failure of the Senate to prove Donald J. Trump innocent...

Once again, for the millionth time, the role of the defense, in a trial or in the Senate, is not to prove innocence. It is a prosecutor's job to prove guilt. Even your own quote says so:

Quote
... a prosecutor failed to prove his or her case beyond a reasonable doubt...


Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: After The Acquital
« Reply #48 on: February 10, 2020, 01:27:16 pm »

You seemed to believe it was the full transcript. Nobody cares what you believe. The truth is known.

What truth? Show me.

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: After The Acquital
« Reply #49 on: February 10, 2020, 01:33:24 pm »

Once again, for the millionth time, the role of the defense, in a trial or in the Senate, is not to prove innocence. It is a prosecutor's job to prove guilt. Even your own quote says so:

Since when is the Senate the defense? The majority may have acted like they were, but that's not their role.
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faberryman

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Re: After The Acquital
« Reply #50 on: February 10, 2020, 01:33:36 pm »

Who cares what you believe?
Certainly nobody I know. I dare say the same applies to everybody in these political discussions, including yourself.
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: After The Acquital
« Reply #51 on: February 10, 2020, 01:34:17 pm »

What truth? Show me.

Show me the full transcript.
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: After The Acquital
« Reply #52 on: February 10, 2020, 01:35:09 pm »

Certainly nobody I know. I dare say the same applies to everybody in these political discussions, including yourself.

Correct, although some contributions are more informative than others.
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LesPalenik

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Re: After The Acquital
« Reply #53 on: February 10, 2020, 01:46:57 pm »

I believe it was a partial summary and not a transcript.

Correct. It was just a partial summary.

Quote
The White House has just released a partial readout — which it admits isn’t a full transcript — of a now infamous call between President Donald Trump and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky.

https://www.vox.com/2019/9/25/20883325/transcript-trump-ukraine-president-impeachment


Similar to the second version of the news after the Iran rocket attack, when the officials reported 11 cases of brain injuries (the first report didn't mention any injuries).

Quote
U.S. President Donald Trump appeared to play down the brain injuries last month, saying he “heard that they had headaches and a couple of other things” following the attack, prompting criticism from lawmakers and a U.S. veterans group.

Now it transpires that that was just a partial count. The latest report states over 100 affected soldiers.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-pentagon-tbi-exclusive/exclusive-more-than-100-u-s-troops-diagnosed-with-brain-injuries-from-iran-attack-officials-idUSKBN2041ZK?il=0
« Last Edit: February 10, 2020, 02:02:11 pm by LesPalenik »
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Craig Lamson

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Re: After The Acquital
« Reply #54 on: February 10, 2020, 02:05:31 pm »

That's a bit of a stretch, I think. Did he fabricate evidence or did he just state what he heard or saw? If he was doing his duty then he is none of those things you stated. Your bias is showing.

Was it his duty to first tell his brother and some yet unknown person (perhaps the whistleblower..which he was protected from stating by shifty Shiff)...BEFORE doing his duty and reporting his concerns to the proper person? 

Does that make him a hero just doing his job or simply another snitch in the WH? 
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Craig Lamson

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Re: After The Acquital
« Reply #55 on: February 10, 2020, 02:13:01 pm »

Correct. It was just a partial summary.

https://www.vox.com/2019/9/25/20883325/transcript-trump-ukraine-president-impeachment


Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the hero Vindman tell the House investigation that the transcript was correct except for what he recalls as a single word was missing? 

Quote
Similar to the second version of the news after the Iran rocket attack, when the officials reported 11 cases of brain injuries (the first report didn't mention any injuries).

Now it transpires that that was just a partial count. The latest report states over 100 affected soldiers.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-pentagon-tbi-exclusive/exclusive-more-than-100-u-s-troops-diagnosed-with-brain-injuries-from-iran-attack-officials-idUSKBN2041ZK?il=0

Amazing, as additional facts become known the reporting reflects it.  Do you have any idea how notorioulsy bad initial reporting of breaking news events can be?   
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Jeremy Roussak

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Re: After The Acquital
« Reply #56 on: February 10, 2020, 02:18:01 pm »

If this thread can't rise above the childish bickering that has filled the last couple of pages, I'll close it. You are adults, not kindergarten pupils.

Jeremy
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: After The Acquital
« Reply #57 on: February 10, 2020, 02:19:11 pm »

Since when is the Senate the defense?...

Come on, Bart, I know your English is better than what you are pretending here. Where did I say the Senate is the defense!?

I said:

... the role of the defense, in a trial or in the Senate, is not to prove innocence...

Trump had his lawyers providing defense IN the Senate.

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: After The Acquital
« Reply #58 on: February 10, 2020, 02:52:30 pm »

Come on, Bart, I know your English is better than what you are pretending here. Where did I say the Senate is the defense!?

I said:

Trump had his lawyers providing defense IN the Senate.

If the Senate isn't the defense, and we seem to agree that it isn't, why haven't they heard more witnesses?

By not getting to the bottom of it, hearing witnesses who could clarify certain details, they acted as the defense (which is not their sworn duty), thus leaving enough (neither proven nor disproved) reasonable doubt not to be able to convict.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: After The Acquital
« Reply #59 on: February 10, 2020, 03:07:15 pm »

Good. I'm glad we won't expect any more warnings about the muslim peril from you or references to a presidential candidates as Mary Buttplug?  ;)

My warnings are not over the top, they are factual.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-security/british-man-guilty-of-plotting-islamist-attack-on-london-sights-idUSKBN20428F

As for Mary, blame it on auto-correct... as soon as I start typing Mayor Butt...whatever, it pops up as Mary Buttplug ;)
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